Iowa Public Television

 

Senator Keith Kreiman and Representative Lance Horbach

posted on November 7, 2005

Borg: SEGREGATION BY LAW. IOWA'S NEW LAW DEFINING WHERE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS MAY NOT RESIDE BEGINS TO BITE. IOWA LEGISLATORS ARE BEING PRESSURED TO REVISIT THE ISSUE. WE'LL QUESTION BLOOMFIELD DEMOCRATIC SENATOR KEITH KREIMAN AND TAMA REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE LANCE HORBACH ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." Senator Keith Kreiman and Representative Lance Horbach

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ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 4 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: SOME IOWA CITIES AND TOWNS ARE TAKING MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS CONCERNING THE MATTER OF WHERE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS CAN LIVE OR RESIDE. THAT'S IN REACTION TO A NEW STATE LAW BANNING SUCH A PERSON FROM TAKING UP RESIDENCE WITHIN 2,000 FEET OF SCHOOLS AND CHILDREN'S DAY CARE CENTERS. AND SOME SMALL TOWNS WITHOUT A SCHOOL OR DAY CARE CENTER ARE ENACTING ORDINANCES PLACING THE ENTIRE TOWN OFF LIMITS TO REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS. OTHER TOWNS ARE EXPANDING THE SENSITIVE LIST TO INCLUDE PARKS, PLAYGROUNDS, AND OTHER FACILITIES WHERE CHILDREN CONGREGATE. LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN OUT MEASURING DISTANCES AND MANY REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS HAVE BEEN MOVING. SOME HAVE BEEN ARRESTED. BUT SOMETIMES THERE'S NO LEGAL PLACE FOR THEM TO TAKE UP RESIDENCE IN A TOWN. SO THE DEBATE IS PREDICTABLE. SOME SAY THE STATE LAW HAS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. OTHERS SAY FINE, BRING IT ON. THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS ARE NECESSARY, THEY SAY, TO PROTECT CHILDREN. WELL, IT'S A VIRTUAL CERTAINTY THE TOPIC WILL BE REVISITED IN THE UPCOMING IOWA LEGISLATIVE SESSION. DURING THE INTERIM BETWEEN GENERAL ASSEMBLY SESSIONS, A LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE IS REVIEWING THE CURRENT LAW. AND TWO TASK FORCE MEMBERS ARE WITH US. BLOOMFIELD DEMOCRAT KEITH KREIMAN COCHAIRS THE SENATE'S JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, AND TAMA REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE LANCE HORBACH CHAIRS THE JUSTICE SYSTEM SUBCOMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO "IOWA PRESS."

Horbach: THANK YOU.

Kreiman: THANK YOU.

Borg: ALSO WITH US HERE AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE: "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND "ASSOCIATED PRESS" SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER MIKE GLOVER.

Glover: SENATOR KREIMAN, LET'S START WITH YOU. YOU'VE HEARD DEAN'S INTRODUCTION. WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO DO IN THE UPCOMING SESSION ON SEX ABUSE, AND IS IT AN ISSUE YOU CAN'T AVOID?

Kreiman: IT IS AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD NOT BE AVOIDED. IT IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO SOME FIXES TO WHAT WE DID THIS APRIL. AND, OF COURSE, WE EXPECTED IN APRIL THAT WE WOULD REVISIT IT AGAIN THIS COMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION. AND I CAN TELL YOU HOW WE NEED TO FIX IT AT A MINIMUM, AND THAT IS WE NEED TO INCORPORATE THE 2,000 -- THE NEW SCHOOLS, THE NEW DAY CARES INTO THE 2,000-FOOT LIMIT. WE NEED TO --

Glover: TO CLARIFY IT, THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHIN 2,000 FEET OF A SCHOOL OR DAY CARE, BUT NEW SCHOOLS AREN'T COVERED BY IT.

Kreiman: NEW SCHOOLS, NEW DAY CARES ARE NOT COVERED BY THE PRESENT LAW. WE ALSO NEED TO IMPLEMENT AN ANTI-LOITERING STATUTE SOMEWHAT LIKE ILLINOIS HAS RECENTLY DONE, WHICH PREVENTS THESE PREDATORS FROM SITTING RIGHT ACROSS THE PARK OR THE PLAYGROUND, TAKING PICTURES OR DOING WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, SCOPING OUT -- FINDING THEIR NEXT VICTIM. CURRENTLY LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN'T EVEN ASK THEM TO LEAVE. THERE'S NO LEGAL GROUND FOR THEM TO DO THAT. AND THIRDLY, WE NEED TO INCLUDE A PROVISION THAT IS -- THAT REQUIRES THE SEX OFFENDERS WHO COME UPON, FOR EXAMPLE, SCHOOL PROPERTY, TO LET SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS KNOW THAT THEY'RE ON THE PROPERTY, WHAT THEY'RE DOING, HOW LONG THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU. WHAT WILL THE LEGISLATURE DO WHEN THEY CONVENE IN JANUARY, AND IS THIS AN ISSUE THE LEGISLATURE SIMPLY CAN'T AVOID?

Horbach: THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO ADDRESS. THERE'S NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO -- AND THIS IS COMING FROM THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS ALL OVER THE STATE. THEY'RE NOT SURE HOW TO PROSECUTE SOME OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE INCORPORATED INTO THE BILL, SO THERE WILL BE A CORRECTIVE MEASURE OF THE SEX OFFENDER BILL. THE PUBLIC HAS ABSOLUTELY --

Glover: WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY'RE NOT SURE HOW TO PROSECUTE IT?

Horbach: FOR EXAMPLE, THE 2,000-FOOT RULE, IS THAT REAL PROPERTY OR IS THAT A DISTANCE? WE HAVE A CASE OUT THERE WHERE THERE'S AN APARTMENT BUILDING WHERE ON ONE SIDE OF THE APARTMENT BUILDING, THAT'S INSIDE THE 2,000-FOOT RULE, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING IS 2,014 FEET AWAY. CAN HE STAY? SO IT'S EXAMPLES LIKE THAT THAT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT. THE ONE THING THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO -- THE PUBLIC HAS NO TOLERANCE AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS NO TOLERANCE FOR A SEX OFFENDER, BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE IDENTIFIED -- WHEN WE DID THE LEGISLATION, WE INCORPORATED IT AROUND A 35-YEAR-OLD MALE AND A 3-YEAR-OLD GIRL, AND THAT'S WHERE THE LAW IS BASED AND THAT'S WHERE THE PUBLIC'S PERCEPTION IS BASED. DID WE PULL IN SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE BY DEFINITION SEX OFFENDERS BUT YET WE DID NOT INTEND TO BE IMPACTED ON THIS? AND THAT'S THE DISCUSSION ALONG WITH THE CORRECTIVE MEASURES.

Glover: WELL, DO YOU AGREE WITH THESE CORRECTIVE MEASURES HE RAISED?

Horbach: YES. WE WILL BE DOING THOSE MEASURES AS WELL FOR DISCUSSION.

Yepsen: MR. HORBACH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT EACH OF THOSE IN A MOMENT. BUT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU A GENERAL QUESTION. YOU'VE RAISED UP THE 2,000-FOOT LIMIT. WHAT ABOUT THE CRITICISM THAT THE LAW IS TOO BROAD, THAT THAT 2,000-FOOT LIMIT IS PURELY ARBITRARY, IT WAS SOMETHING PLUCKED OUT OF THE AIR? HOW ABOUT MAKING IT 1,000 FEET?

Horbach: THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF REQUESTS FOR MEASUREMENTS. THERE ARE SOME LEGISLATORS WHO THINK HUNDREDS OF MILES ARE TOO FEW. AND THEN THERE'S THE 100 FOOT, 200 FOOT. WE DID HAVE TO PICK A NUMBER, AND WE PICKED 2,000. BUT WHAT I THINK -- WHEN YOU SAY IT'S TOO BROAD, WELL, I HOPE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE FACT OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT DEAN TALKED ABOUT.

Yepsen: YES.

Horbach: AND MY THEORY ON THIS IS MAYBE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS. WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DID IS WE INCORPORATED OR IMPOSED A ZONING ORDINANCE ON EVERY COMMUNITY IN IOWA THAT HAS A DAY CARE AND A SCHOOL. WELL, WHAT DO THEY DO BACK HOME IF THEY WANT TO GET A VARIANCE FROM THAT? IN OTHER WORDS, IF INSTEAD OF THE LEGISLATURE DECIDING WHO WE'RE GOING TO -- WHO ARE OUR UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, LET THE LOCAL COMMUNITY DECIDE. AND IF THEY WERE TO GO IN FRONT OF A BOARD, WHETHER IT'S THE ZONING BOARD, THE CITY COUNCIL, WHATEVER, SEEK A VARIANCE FROM THE LOCAL ENTITY TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN THAT COMMUNITY IF THEY'RE AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE.

Yepsen: SENATOR KREIMAN, WHAT ABOUT THAT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE? WILL THE SENATE GO ALONG WITH THE IDEA OF MAYBE ALLOWING SOME VARIANCES HERE OR TAKE THE 2,000-FOOT RULE AND MAKE IT 1,000 FEET?

Kreiman: I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK WHAT WE'VE ATTEMPTED TO DO IN THE SENATE IS TO HAVE AN EFFECTIVE LAW. AND THAT WAS -- THAT PROVISION WAS PASSED IN 2002. AND AS YET, WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY STATISTIC BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN IN EFFECT BECAUSE OF COURT CASES. BUT WE NEED TO SEE WHETHER THAT 2,000-FOOT RULE WORKS. AND IF IT WORKS, IT'S GOING TO STAY IOWA LAW FOR A LONG TIME. IF IT DOES NOT WORK, THEN WE WILL REVISIT THAT PORTION OF THE LAW AND WE WILL REVISIT ANY OTHER PORTION OF THE LAW AND MAKE IT EFFECTIVE.

Yepsen: JUST SO I'M CLEAR, YOU'RE -- BOTH THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE 2,000-FOOT RULE IN THIS COMING SESSION?

Kreiman: NO.

Horbach: NOT AT ALL.

Glover: AND, REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PROSECUTORS WHO TOLD YOUR TASK FORCE THAT THIS 2,000-FOOT LAW IS A JOKE: YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHERE SEX OFFENDERS LIVE; YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHERE THEY COMMIT THEIR CRIMES. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

Horbach: WELL, YOU CAN ARGUE THAT EITHER WAY. AND WE HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH THE NUMBERS BY AGE GROUP, BY THE SEX CRIME, WHERE THESE CRIMES WERE COMMITTED. AND AT LEAST 80 PERCENT OF THESE SEX ACTS HAPPEN IN A RESIDENCE. THE PUBLIC IS DEMANDING THAT WE PROTECT OUR CHILDREN IN THE AREAS ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU SEE A LARGE ACCUMULATION OF CHILDREN, WHICH WOULD BE THE DAY CARES AND THE SCHOOLS. SO THE PUBLIC LOVES THE LAW. THERE IS NO DOUBT THE PUBLIC LOVES THE LAW. WE NEED TO LOOK, THOUGH, IS IT PROVIDING THE PROTECTION THAT THE PUBLIC HAS DEMANDED. AND THAT IS A QUESTION THAT WE REALLY NEED TO DISCUSS, BECAUSE IT IS ON A HIGH PROFILE PUSHING THEM AWAY FROM THE SCHOOLS. BUT IS IT GIVING THEM THE PROTECTION THEY'RE ASKING FOR? AND THAT'S WHERE SENATOR KREIMAN'S COMMENTS COME UP. WE NEED TO LOOK AT ACCESS TO SCHOOLS, ACCESS TO DAY CARES, THAT TYPE OF THING AS WELL.

Borg: SENATOR KREIMAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A COINCIDENCE OF EVENTS. AND I GO BACK TO MR. HORBACH SAYING A FEW MINUTES AGO, THE LEGISLATURE HAS NO TOLERANCE FOR A SEX OFFENDER. HE DIDN'T COME INTO THE LAST SESSION FEELING THAT WAY. IT WASN'T ONE OF THE HIGH PRIORITIES UNTIL APRIL, WHEN TEN-YEAR-OLD JETSETA GAGE WAS KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED IN THE CEDAR RAPIDS AREA AND DOWN INTO JOHNSON COUNTY. I'M REMINDED THAT JUST THIS WEEK THE TRIAL FOR THE MAN ACCUSED OF THAT CRIME BEGINS IN DAVENPORT ON JANUARY 23. THE LEGISLATURE JUST COMING BACK INTO SESSION. IT'S GOING TO CREATE A LOT OF EMOTION AND REKINDLE A LOT OF THOSE SAME FEELINGS. IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WHAT ACTION YOU TAKE?

Kreiman: I DO THINK IT'S GOING TO REMIND THE PUBLIC AND THE LEGISLATURE HOW IMPORTANT OUR SEX OFFENDER LAWS ARE. THE LEGISLATURE HAS IN PREVIOUS YEARS DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS REGARDING SEX OFFENDERS. BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT; LAST YEAR IN JANUARY, I DON'T THINK IT WAS TOP OF THE LIST. BUT, YOU KNOW, EVENTS MADE IT, YOU KNOW, COME TOWARDS THE TOP. AND IT'S REMAINED TOWARDS THE TOP, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN, WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITIES.

Borg: REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, DOES THAT MEAN, THOUGH, THAT DISSENTING VOICES -- BECAUSE YOU'VE SPOKEN RATHER STRONGLY ABOUT THE NEED TO BE TOUGH AND EVEN TOUGHER. ARE DISSENTING VOICES NOT GOING TO EVEN HAVE A CHANCE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

Horbach: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO CLEAR UP IN THE CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING, WE ARE A REACTIONARY BODY. THE LEGISLATURE, AS YOU WELL KNOW, ITS LONG-TERM PLANNING MAY BE TWO YEARS. SO WHEN ISSUES COME UP THAT ARE FULL OF EMOTION AND INTENSE PUBLIC INTEREST, SUCH AS THIS CASE, WE REACTED VERY QUICKLY. DUE DILIGENCE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT WAS NOT A TWO- OR THREE-YEAR ISSUE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE 2,000-FOOT RULE. PART OF THE CONFUSION IS THEY THOUGHT THAT JULY 1, WHEN THESE LAWS WERE ENACTED, THAT THE 2,000-FOOT RULE WAS PART OF THAT PACKAGE WHEN, IN REALITY, IT ACTUALLY WAS PASSED IN 2002. BUT BECAUSE OF THE COURT CASE, IT CAME ON AT THE SAME TIME AS THE MANDATORY BRACELETS, THE NEW ENHANCED SENTENCING, ALL THE PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WE -- WERE A DIRECT DERIVATIVE OF THAT INCIDENT. AND SO THEY'RE ALL LUMPED TOGETHER AS BEING EQUAL, AND THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES.

Glover: SENATOR KREIMAN, LET'S STEP BACK AND LOOK AT SOME OF THESE PROPOSALS A LITTLE BIT CLOSER. FIRST OF ALL, YOU SAY YOU WANT TO PASS AN ANTI-LOITERING LAW THAT WOULD PREVENT SEX OFFENDERS FROM HANGING AROUND SCHOOLS. MECHANICALLY HOW DOES THAT WORK? I MEAN IF I'M A SEX OFFENDER, DO I HAVE TO WALK FIVE MILES AN HOUR WHEN I WALK PAST A SCHOOL? DO I HAVE TO WALK THREE MILES AN HOUR? AT WHAT POINT -- HOW DOES MECHANICALLY THAT WORK?

Kreiman: THE WAY IT WOULD WORK IS YOU WILL BE PREVENTED FROM BEING WITHIN SO MANY FEET OF A PLAYGROUND OR OTHER AREA WHERE CHILDREN CONGREGATE, YOU KNOW, FOR MORE THAN "X" AMOUNT OF TIME. AND IF THEY'RE THERE FOR LONGER THAN THAT AMOUNT OF TIME --

Glover: SO THE LEGISLATURE JUST PICKS FIVE MINUTES, TEN MINUTES --

Kreiman: WHATEVER -- WHATEVER IS PICKED -- YOU KNOW, MY OWN OPINION IS THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE AROUND THERE ANYWAY. YOU KNOW, IF IT'S DRIVING BY JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON THEIR WAY TO WORK OR WHATEVER, THAT'S ONE THING. BUT I CAN'T SEE ANY REASON WHY A CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER SHOULD BE ABLE TO SIT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, AND VIEWING THOSE CHILDREN AND PERHAPS SCOPING OUT THEIR NEXT VICTIM.

Glover: RIGHT. WOULD YOU PUT A DISTANCE REQUIREMENT TO HOW CLOSE A SEX OFFENDER COULD COME TO A SCHOOL? FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHIN 2,000 FEET OF A SCHOOL, WOULD YOU PASS A LAW THAT SAYS THEY CAN'T COME WITHIN 100 FEET OF A SCHOOL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

Kreiman: I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT ANY OTHER STATE HAS TRIED THAT. I'M NOT SURE HOW WORKABLE THAT IS, BUT WE WILL DO -- WE WILL CONSIDER -- WE WILL DO WHATEVER IS EFFECTIVE TO PROTECT CHILDREN AND COMMUNITIES.

Glover: AND, REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF NEW SCHOOLS, HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

Horbach: WELL, PART OF THE REASON IS WHO'S GRANDFATHERED IN AND WHO ISN'T, AND SO THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT WE WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS. I WAS NOT EVEN AWARE OF THAT PROBLEM UNTIL THE TESTIMONY. AND QUITE FRANKLY, THE LEGISLATURE WAS NOT AWARE OF A LOT OF PROBLEMS. THE BRACELET ISSUE -- YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE -- THIS REALLY IS NOT A VERY POLITICAL TOPIC AT ALL. EVERYBODY WANTS PROTECTION FOR THE PEOPLE. AND WE FOUND OUT THAT THE BRACELETS ARE NOT IN REAL-TIME. WE ASSUMED THEY WERE IN REAL-TIME. EVERYBODY ASSUMED THEY WERE IN REAL-TIME. THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF THESE AREAS WHERE THE BOTTOM LINE ISN'T REALLY THE DETAIL OF THE LEGISLATION. IT'S THE ENACTMENT OF PROTECTION, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING FOR. WE'RE LOOKING FOR TO GIVE THE PUBLIC THE PERCEPTION THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY DEMANDING.

Yepsen: REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, OTHER STATES -- YOU MENTIONED OTHER STATES WERE DOING THINGS. ARE THERE OTHER IDEAS THAT YOU'RE COLLECTING FROM OTHER STATES FOR THINGS THAT IOWA COULD COPY? I'M THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING I HEARD THAT FLORIDA WAS EITHER DOING OR THINKING ABOUT DOING, AND THAT WAS REQUIRING SEX OFFENDERS TO SIMPLY POST A SIGN IN FRONT OF THEIR HOME, WHEREVER THEY DO LIVE, THAT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER LIVES HERE SO THAT CHILDREN HAVE -- KNOW TO STAY AWAY. IS IOWA LOOKING AT ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

Horbach: WELL, I WOULD SAY AT THIS POINT, PRIOR TO THE LEGISLATURE, NOTHING IS OFF THE TABLE. A LOT OF THE STATES ARE MOVING -- DOING THINGS LIKE THAT. THE LICENSE PLATE ISSUE HAS COME UP, YOU KNOW, WOULD WE LOOK INTO THAT. BUT MOST OF THE STATES ARE REALLY LOOKING TOWARDS INCREASED SENTENCING ISSUES, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, REQUIRED TREATMENT. YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW A SEX OFFENDER CAN REFUSE TREATMENT IN PRISON, AND THERE'S NO PENALTY OTHER THAN HE DOESN'T GET ANY EARNED TIME.

Yepsen: WELL, SENATOR KREIMAN, DOES TREATMENT WORK?

Kreiman: IT DEPENDS WHO YOU TALK TO. SOME PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THAT IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE. SOME PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THAT IT'S NOT VERY EFFECTIVE, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH A SHOT. AND WE SHOULD PROVIDE TREATMENT. WE SHOULD MANDATE TREATMENT. BUT I THINK IN THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION, WHAT WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT IS WHAT COMMUNITIES CAN DO, WHAT PARENTS CAN DO TO BETTER PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN. I MEAN NO MATTER WHAT WE DO AS A LEGISLATURE, YOU KNOW, THE BEST -- THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE IS WITH THE PARENTS AND THE COMMUNITIES.

Borg: BUT WHAT SHOULD COMMUNITIES BE DOING, THEN, THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING NOW THAT YOU'VE OBSERVED?

Kreiman: IF YOU GO TO -- I'LL JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. IF YOU GO TO SOME VERY HEAVILY TRAVELED MALLS OR OTHER PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CONGREGATE, MANY TIMES YOU WILL SEE REST ROOMS, YOU WILL SEE EXITS WHERE THERE'S NO SECURITY, NO CAMERAS, NO NOTHING. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT A GREAT PLACE, YOU KNOW, FOR A SEXUAL PREDATOR TO GRAB A KID AND LEAVE AND, YOU KNOW, NOT BE FOUND. YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES SHOULD KNOW WHERE IN THE COMMUNITY THE SEX OFFENDERS ARE. THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION SHOULD KNOW WHO THE SEX OFFENDERS ARE. THE LITTLE LEAGUE COACHES NEED TO KNOW. AND PARENTS, YOU KNOW, NEED TO DO THE VERY, VERY SIMPLE THINGS. THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR KIDS AREN'T ALONE ON THE STREET AT NIGHT, YOU KNOW. WHEN THEY'RE IN CROWDED PLACES LIKE MALLS AND OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW, DON'T HAVE THE KIDS GO OFF BY THEMSELVES. YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO BE IN GROUPS. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS PARENTS CAN DO.

Yepsen: MR. HORBACH, CHEMICAL CASTRATION, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT? THE IDEA WAS ON THE BOOKS THAT A DRUG COULD BE ADMINISTERED TO SEX OFFENDERS TO DECREASE THEIR SEX DRIVE. AND YET FOR SOME REASON THAT HASN'T WORKED OR ISN'T BEING USED.

Horbach: WELL, IOWA CHOOSES TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. FOR THE OFFENDER THAT WE THINK THAT WE CAN'T TREAT AND IS AT HIGHEST OF RISKS TO REOFFEND, THOSE PEOPLE GO INTO OUR CUSO PROGRAM, WHICH IS UP IN CHEROKEE, WHERE THEY'RE TRANSFERRED FROM -- THEY'RE ACTUALLY TRANSFERRED FROM THEIR SENTENCE AT DOC OVER TO DHS, WHERE MOST OF THOSE MEN ARE LIFETIME MEMBERS IN THAT TREATMENT FACILITY, WHICH IS A LOCKDOWN. IT'S BASICALLY A DHS TREATMENT PRISON FACILITY UNDER THE HEADING OF DHS.

Glover: SENATOR KREIMAN, WHEN THE LEGISLATURE DEBATED THIS ISSUE DURING THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SOME HARD-LINERS BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF THE DEATH PENALTY. THEY'VE ALREADY SERVED NOTICE THAT ISSUE WILL BE RAISED AGAIN WHEN THE LEGISLATURE ADDRESSES THIS ISSUE DURING THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION. WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF THAT PROPOSAL?

Kreiman: IT'S GOING TO DIE. IT'S NOT GOING TO -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A DEBATE ON THE DEATH PENALTY. AND SENATOR GRONSTAL HAS MADE THAT CLEAR. I THINK AT ONE POINT REPRESENTATIVE RANTS MADE THAT CLEAR. WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DEBATE ARE EFFECTIVE MEASURES TO PROTECT IOWA'S CHILDREN AND COMMUNITIES.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, WILL THERE BE A DEBATE ON THE DEATH SENTENCE? AND WHY WILL THERE BE A DEBATE ON THE DEATH SENTENCE, GIVEN WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO WOULD VETO IT IF IT'S PASSED AND A SENATE THAT'S TIED 25/25 AND CAN'T PASS IT?

Horbach: WELL, I GO BACK -- THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THE SENATE DOES NOT WANT TO SEE A DEATH PENALTY DEBATE. I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF MEMBERS IN THE IOWA HOUSE THAT WANT TO HAVE THAT DEBATE. THERE ARE MEMBERS IN THE SENATE THAT WANT TO HAVE THAT DEBATE. I THINK THOSE OF US THAT DO ARE GOING TO KEEP PUSHING. AND WHERE IT RESULTS -- WHERE IT FALLS IS TYPICALLY JUST GOING TO BE WITHIN THE POLITICAL REALM OF THE LEADERSHIP OF THE HOUSE AND THE LEADERSHIP OF THE SENATE. WE PRETTY MUCH KNOW THAT THE ISSUE IS GOING TO DIE AT THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, IF IT WOULD EVEN MAKE IT OUT OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

Glover: AND WHAT DO YOU SAY TO CRITICS WHO SAY, OKAY, IF YOU LIKE THE DEATH PENALTY, GO OUT AND ELECT GOVERNORS AND LEGISLATORS WHO SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY AND WE'LL PASS IT?

Horbach: WELL, I THINK THE PUBLIC DESERVES TO KNOW WHETHER YOU STAND FOR THE DEATH PENALTY OR AGAINST IT FOR WHATEVER REASON.

Glover: REALISTICALLY DON'T THEY KNOW THAT DURING THE COURSE OF A CAMPAIGN?

Horbach: THEY SHOULD.

Yepsen: SENATOR KREIMAN, TALK ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY -- THE POLITICS OF THE DEATH PENALTY A LITTLE BIT. IT'S BECOME AN ISSUE IN YOUR PRIMARY'S PARTY FOR GOVERNOR. YOU'VE ENDORSED MIKE BLOUIN, WHO OPPOSES THE DEATH PENALTY. HIS LEADING OPPONENT IS CHET CULVER, WHO SUPPORTS THE DEATH PENALTY. I'M JUST CURIOUS, DO YOU SEE THE DEATH PENALTY BECOMING A DEBATE INSIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR?

Kreiman: IT COULD BECOME A DEBATE WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. I REALLY TRY TO FOCUS LESS ON POLITICS AND MORE ON LEGISLATION. INSTEAD OF FIGHTING, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND CAMPAIGNS AND THAT, I MUCH PREFER TO WORK WITH LANCE, WORK WITH THE OTHER PARTY FOR EFFECTIVE LEGISLATION.

Yepsen: WE ALWAYS TALK POLITICS ON THIS SHOW, SENATOR. YOU KNOW THAT. LET'S GO BACK TO A POLICY ISSUE, THOUGH.

Kreiman: SURE.

Yepsen: THE SEX OFFENDER WEB SITE. YOU TALK ABOUT PARENTS OUGHT TO TAKE PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES -- AND NOBODY IS GOING TO ARGUE WITH THAT -- AND YET I KEEP HEARING THIS CRITICISM THAT THESE WEB SITES, NUMBER ONE, DON'T WORK, AND ARE CUMBERSOME TO USE. AND SECONDLY, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN IOWA WHO STILL DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO A WEB SITE. SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THOSE TWO QUESTIONS?

Kreiman: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY IS BECOMING A LOT MORE USER FRIENDLY THAN IT WAS JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO. AND WE HAD A REPORT IN OUR COMMITTEE THAT WE HAD A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHERE THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE REAL-TIME, MORE UP-TO-DATE ADDRESSES. YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT IN YOUR ADDRESS AND GET A MAP BACK, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE SEX OFFENDERS ARE, WITHIN A MILE OR TWO OR HOWEVER FAR FROM YOUR LOCATION. IT IS GETTING BETTER. IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET BETTER BECAUSE WE'RE OVERSEEING IT.

Yepsen: THAT'S GREAT. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET?

Kreiman: WELL, AGAIN, LIBRARIES HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. MOST PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET, OR THEY CAN JUST GO DOWN TO THEIR LOCAL SHERIFF AND THE SHERIFF CAN TELL THEM WHERE THE SEX OFFENDERS ARE.

Horbach: ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT, WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY BECAUSE WE'VE INCREASED THE CAPACITY. IT'S FASTER. IT'S EASIER. WE NOW HAVE AN E-MAIL NOTIFICATION. YOU CAN SAY I WANT TO BE NOTIFIED OF ANY ADDRESS CHANGE. SO IF SOMEONE MOVES INTO YOUR DISTRICT, SOMEONE MOVES OUT, SOMEONE MOVES AROUND YOUR DISTRICT, YOU GET AN AUTOMATED E-MAIL IN FIVE SECONDS. BAM, YOU HAVE IT. SO THAT'S GOING ON. WHAT HAPPENS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THE INTERNET? THAT WAS A CONCERN OF THE LEGISLATURE. WHAT WE HAVE IS WE'VE GIVEN THE DISCRETION OF THE LOCAL SHERIFF TO BE ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE OUT INFORMATION. AND THAT'S OUT OF OUR HANDS, BUT THAT IS AT LEAST ONE ELEMENT OF HOW WE CAN PREVENT -- OR PRESENT INFORMATION TO OUR CONSTITUENTS.

Yepsen: WHY DON'T YOU JUST SEND US SOMETHING IN THE MAIL? GOVERNMENT SENDS US ALL KINDS OF STUFF WE DON'T WANT OR NEED. WHY DON'T YOU SEND PEOPLE A LIST OF IT?

Horbach: WELL, I THOUGHT THAT WE HAD LEGISLATION -- AT ONE TIME IT WAS PART OF THE BILL WHERE THE SEX OFFENDER NAMES HAD TO BE PRINTED IN ONE OF THE LOCAL NEWSPAPERS IN THE COUNTY.

Glover: AND, SENATOR KREIMAN, I'D LIKE TO TURN TO A SUGGESTION THAT REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH RAISED EARLIER ABOUT DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN THE TYPES OF SEX OFFENDERS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SEX OFFENDERS, AS REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH SAID, MOST PEOPLE THINK OF A 35-YEAR-OLD GUY AND A 3-YEAR-OLD GIRL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SEX OFFENDERS? DO YOU DRAW AGE DISTINCTIONS? DO YOU DRAW SEX OFFENSE CATEGORY DISTINCTIONS. HOW DO YOU DO THAT MECHANICALLY?

Horbach: I THINK WE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THEM, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE CRIMINAL LAW, THE SENTENCES. WITH THE 2000-FOOT, THAT APPLIES TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE SEX OFFENSES AGAINST CHILDREN. AND DO YOU NEED TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THEM? I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU DO. THEY'VE ALREADY COMMITTED ONE CRIME AGAINST CHILDREN SO --

Glover: SO YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DRAW A DIFFERENTIATION. REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, HOW WOULD IT WORK IN YOUR MIND? WOULD YOU DRAW AGE DISTINCTIONS?

Horbach: IF IT WAS UP TO ME, I WOULDN'T. I WOULD HAVE THE LEGISLATURE STEP BACK, AND YOU WOULD HAVE -- YOU WOULD HAVE THAT TOTALLY IN THE HANDS OF THE LOCAL PEOPLE ON A CASE BY CASE. THE PEOPLE LOVE THIS LAW. WE KEEP IT THERE. BUT IF SOMEBODY -- THIS IS AN EXAMPLE EVERYBODY IS USING IN THE PRESS, BUT IT IS THE ACTUAL EXAMPLE IN MY HOMETOWN: 18-YEAR-OLD BOY; 14-YEAR-OLD GIRLFRIEND; THEY HAD A SEX ACT; THE PARENTS REPORT IT OR THE GIRL REPORTED THE GUY; HE'S A SEX OFFENDER. THEY LIVE IN MY COMMUNITY. THREE KIDS AND HE HAD TO MOVE OUT. AND I WAS HOPING THAT WE COULD HAVE A LOCAL VARIANCE OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO GO PUBLICLY IN FRONT OF WHATEVER BOARD YOU CHOOSE OR SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, ANY BOARD, AND BE ABLE TO STATE HIS CASE TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY AND THAT BE DECIDED BY THE PEOPLE HE LIVES NEXT TO.

Glover: SENATOR KREIMAN?

Yepsen: YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

Kreiman: NO, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S RIGHT AT ALL. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW WELL THIS 2,000-FOOT LAW IS GOING TO WORK. AND WE DON'T KNOW IF, YOU KNOW, IN THAT CATEGORY OF 19-YEAR-OLDS WHO HAVE SEX WITH 14-YEAR-OLDS IF THIS LAW ISN'T YET GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE. AND IF IT IS EFFECTIVE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THAT LAW.

Borg: WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO LET A JUDGE MAKE THAT DECISION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT A CERTAIN PROVISION OF THE LAW WOULD APPLY?

Kreiman: I'M TAKING THE POSITION THAT UNTIL WE FIND OUT HOW THAT LAW IS WORKING, WHETHER IT'S SUCCESSFUL, WE SHOULDN'T CHANGE IT.

Yepsen: MR. HORBACH, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT MONEY. THE LEGISLATURE IS FOND OF PASSING TOUGH LAWS AND THEN NOT DOING ANYTHING TO FUND THEM. YOU GUYS -- THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE WERE CRITICIZED LAST SESSION BY THE DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE FOR BEING REAL TOUGH BUT NOT PROVIDING ANY MONEY. SO AS YOU GO INTO THIS NEXT SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE AND START TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS YOU WANT TO DO, HOW MUCH NET NEW MONEY WILL REPUBLICANS BE PREPARED TO SPEND TO FIGHT SEX OFFENDERS IN IOWA?

Horbach: WELL, I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT WE HAVE TO -- WE ARE STILL ACCUMULATING THOSE BILLS. FOR THE MOST PART, WE'RE ALREADY ASKING HOW MUCH WILL IT COST FOR REAL-TIME BRACELETS. AS YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW, THE BRACELETS THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON THESE OFFENDERS, WE GET THE INFORMATION 24 HOURS LATER. THE LEGISLATURE -- EVERY DECISION MAKER IN GOVERNMENT THOUGHT IT WAS REAL-TIME EVERY BRACELET -- OR ALMOST EVERY BRACELET. AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE. SO TO UPDATE THAT IS RIGHT AT $900,000 TO A MILLION BUCKS.

Yepsen: SO THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION IS -- WILL THERE BE NET NEW MONEY DEVOTED TO SEX OFFENSE CRIMES -- YOU'RE SAYING, YES, THERE WILL BE.

Horbach: ABSOLUTELY. AND WE DID IT LAST YEAR AS WELL. WE PUT 57 NEW PAROLE OFFICERS OUT THERE. WHEN THEY SAID WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TO MONITOR THESE OFFENDERS, WE PUT 57 NEW PAROLE OFFICERS OUT THERE THIS YEAR, WHICH IS UNPRECEDENTED IN DOC BUDGET YEARS.

Yepsen: SENATOR, THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE SENATE. WILL THERE BE NET NEW MONEY ADDED TO THIS PROBLEM IN THE SENATE?

Kreiman: YES.

Yepsen: HOW MUCH?

Kreiman: WHATEVER IT TAKES. YOU KNOW, AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE A FLIPPANT ANSWER, BUT WE DON'T KNOW IF -- WHAT ADDITIONAL BRACELETS WILL COST. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ADDITIONAL CHANGES WE MAY MAKE WOULD COST BECAUSE -- IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO WRITE A TOUGH LAW AND NOT HAVE LAW ENFORCEMENT OUT THERE AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS OUT THERE TO ENFORCE IT.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE HORBACH, NEW MONEY FOR BETTER BRACELETS, MORE PAROLE OFFICERS. WHAT ELSE?

Horbach: WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE TREATMENT. WHEN THE LEGISLATURE WAS BEING ACCUSED OF NOT FUNDING THE BRACELETS BY THE GOVERNOR, MADE IT A POLITICAL ISSUE, WHERE WE DID NOT FUND TO THE TOTAL REQUEST, WHICH WAS A REQUEST OF A MILLION DOLLARS FROM MT. PLEASANT PRISON, WE FUNDED IT AT $750,000. WE FULLY FUNDED THE BRACELETS. WE PUT THE NEW SUPERVISION ASPECTS OUT THERE. WHAT WE DID IS WE DID NOT INCREASE TO THE MILLION. WE STAYED AT $750,000 JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE OTHER PRIORITIES AS WELL.

Glover: DO YOU THINK TREATMENT WORKS?

Horbach: I -- I THINK THAT WE NEED TO MAKE THAT EFFORT. WHEN WE TALK TO THE PAROLE OFFICERS, THEY SAY TREATMENT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CHANGE THE MINDSET. IN PRISON, I'M NOT SO SURE IT'S MONEY WELL SPENT. ON THE OUTSIDE, I THINK IT'S A VERY VALUABLE DOLLAR.

Borg: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING TIME TO BE WITH US TODAY. I'M SORRY THAT WE'RE OUT OF TIME. ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WE'LL TAP THE INSIGHT OF IOWA POLITICAL REPORTERS DURING A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION OF POLITICAL PERSONALITIES, CAMPAIGNS, AND ISSUES. YOU'LL SEE THAT ROUNDTABLE AT OUR REGULAR "IOWA PRESS" AIRTIMES NEXT WEEK: 7:30 FRIDAY; SUNDAY AT NOON. I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

FUNDING FOR "IOWA PRESS" WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.

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