Iowa Public Television

 

Sen. Evan Bayh

posted on July 14, 2006

Borg: TAKING A LOOK. IOWANS SIZE UP INDIANA SENATOR EVAN BAYH, AND HE PONDERS A RUN IN IOWA'S 2008 PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE CAUCUS. WE'LL QUESTION SENATOR BAYH ON THIS EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.'

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY 'FRIENDS,' THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE; AND BY CAPITOL RESOURCES, INC., LOCATED IN BROOKLYN, IOWA; AND BY NICOLE SCHLINGER AND ERIC LANGE INDIVIDUALLY, FUND-RAISING AND COMMUNICATION SERVICES FOR MAJOR CAMPAIGNS SINCE 1996.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, JULY 14 EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.' HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: AT THIS TIME THERE ARE NO DECLARED PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR THE 2008 GENERAL ELECTION, BUT THERE'S HEAVY TRAFFIC ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. INDIANA'S DEMOCRATIC SENATOR EVAN BAYH IS AMONG THE POTENTIAL CANDIDATES. SO FAR THIS YEAR HE'S MADE THREE TRIPS TO IOWA, FIVE IN THE PAST TWELVE MONTHS. SENATOR BAYH WAS TWICE ELECTED GOVERNOR OF INDIANA. HE'S NOW SERVING HIS SECOND SIX-YEAR TERM IN THE U.S. SENATE. AND THERE'S POLITICAL TRADITION IN HIS FAMILY; HE'S THE SON OF FORMER SENATOR BIRCH BAYH. SENATOR BAYH, WELCOME TO 'IOWA PRESS.'

Bayh: DEAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HOSPITALITY.

Borg: AND WE WANT OUR VIEWERS TO KNOW, SENATOR BAYH, THAT WE'RE TAPING THIS ON JULY 7 FOR BROADCAST LATER.

Bayh: VERY GOOD.

Borg: AND ACROSS THE 'IOWA PRESS' TABLE: 'DES MOINES REGISTER' POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND 'ASSOCIATED PRESS' SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER MIKE GLOVER.

Glover: SENATOR, ON YOUR FIRST APPEARANCE ON 'IOWA PRESS,' WE LIKE TO GIVE POLITICIANS A CHANCE TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. MAKE THE COMMERCIAL FOR EVAN BAYH.

Bayh: MIKE, I'M SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE NEEDS OF MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICA, THE ANXIETIES PEOPLE FEEL, THE RISING COST OF HEALTH CARE, COLLEGE AFFORDABILITY, RETIREMENT INSECURITY WITH SO MANY CHANGES IN THE WORKPLACE TODAY, ENERGY COSTS RISING, PITCHING FAMILY BUDGETS. AND I'VE GOT SOME IDEAS TO DEAL WITH THOSE ANXIETIES TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD. AND I'VE DONE MORE THAN JUST TALK ABOUT THINGS AND VOTE ON THINGS IN WASHINGTON. I ACTUALLY HAVE A RECORD OF GETTING SOME OF THESE THINGS DONE IN MY TIME AS GOVERNOR. WE BALANCE BUDGETS. WE HELP TO CREATE JOBS. WE EXPANDED HEALTH CARE. WE EXPANDED COLLEGE OPPORTUNITIES TO MORE OF OUR CHILDREN. THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS WE NEED TO DO FOR AMERICA. AND FINALLY, MIKE, I'D SAY I HAVE A PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF DOING SOMETHING THIS PRESIDENT SAID HE WOULD DO AND NEVER DID, AND THAT IS BEING MORE OF A UNITER THAN A DIVIDER, REACHING OUT TO INDEPENDENTS, REASONABLE REPUBLICANS, AS WELL AS ALL OF OUR DEMOCRATS TO CONVINCE THEM THAT WE HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO MOVE OUR STATE AND OUR COUNTRY FORWARD. SO I CAN UNITE OUR COUNTRY, AND I CAN WIN. FIVE TIMES IN INDIANA, A PRETTY TOUGH STATE FOR DEMOCRATS. I THINK WE NEED TO WIN NATIONALLY TOO.

Glover: YOU'RE CASTING YOURSELF AS KIND OF A MIDWESTERN, MODERATE --

Bayh: I RAN OVER THIRTY SECONDS, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. >>

Glover: THAT'S ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE KIND OF CASTING YOURSELF AS A MIDWESTERN MODERATE DEMOCRAT, BUT YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE CASTING THEMSELVES AS A MODERATE. HOW DO YOU DISTINGUISH YOURSELF FROM OTHERS IN THE FIELD? I'M THINKING OF MARK WARNER OF VIRGINIA. HILLARY CLINTON IS CASTING HERSELF AS SOMETHING OF A MODERATE WITH A TOUGH POSITION ON THE WAR. HOW DO YOU DISTINGUISH YOURSELF FROM THOSE OTHER POTENTIAL CANDIDATES?

Bayh: MIKE, I RESPECT THE QUESTION BUT, LOOK, I REALLY THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN IDEOLOGY, YOU KNOW, NOT LEFT VERSUS RIGHT BUT MOVING FORWARD RATHER THAN BEING STUCK THE WAY WE ARE TODAY. AND I'VE GOT A RECORD OF MOVING MY STATE FORWARD, TANGIBLE ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT MATTER IN PEOPLE'S LIVES. I'VE BEEN A GOVERNOR SO I'VE PREPARED TO BE A CHIEF EXECUTIVE, BUT I ALSO NOW WILL HAVE ABOUT A DECADE OF NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE. AND NATIONAL SECURITY IS A PRESSING ISSUE FOR OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD. AND ONE THING AS DEMOCRATS WE NEED TO DO IS TO PROVE TO THE COUNTRY WE CAN BE BOTH TOUGH AND SMART. AND WE NEED TO TAKE KARL ROVE AND THIS ADMINISTRATION ON ON THIS ISSUE. WE KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO ATTACK US ON THIS. WE NEED TO FIGHT RIGHT BACK AND SHOW THAT THEY'VE UNDERMINED OUR NATION'S SECURITY AND THAT WE CAN DO BETTER. SO A COMBINATION OF BEING BOTH GOVERNOR AND WITH NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE IS SOMETHING I CAN BRING TO THE TABLE. I'M ALSO -- ALTHOUGH I'VE BEEN INVOLVED NOW A LONG TIME ON MY OWN RIGHT -- AS DEAN MENTIONED, MY FATHER WAS INVOLVED BEFORE ME -- I'M SOMEWHAT NEW, SOMEWHAT FRESH. I THINK I CAN MAKE THIS REFERENDUM ABOUT WHAT IT OUGHT TO BE ABOUT, THE FUTURE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, NOT A BUNCH OF EXTRANEOUS STUFF.

Yepsen: SENATOR BAYH, HOW DO YOU RUN IN IOWA FOR PRESIDENT WHEN GOVERNOR VILSACK IS ALSO GOING TO RUN? HOW DO YOU PLAY IOWA WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WITH A HOMETOWN ADVANTAGE?

Bayh: WELL, DAVID, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THAT'S A HARD ONE. I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR TOM AND FOR CHRISTIE TOO. HE'S A GOOD MAN. HE'S DONE WELL. BUT, LOOK, I THINK ALL OF US NEED TO COME TO THIS PLACE WHERE THE PROCESS BEGINS AND MAKE OUR CASE. IOWANS ARE A LOT LIKE HOOSIERS. I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE HERE. AND SO EACH ONE OF US NEEDS TO LAY OUT IN A POSITIVE WAY WHAT WE'RE FOR, WHERE WE WOULD LEAD, HOW WE SEE THE CHALLENGES FACING THIS COUNTRY, AND WHY PEOPLE SHOULD BELIEVE US, WHAT CREDIBILITY DO WE HAVE. SO I THINK YOU WOULD RUN IN IOWA WITH A LOT OF RESPECT FOR TOM VILSACK, BUT RUN VERY HARD HERE.

Yepsen: DOES THE FACT YOU ARE FROM THE MIDWEST GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE HERE IN IOWA?

Bayh: I THINK IT ENABLES ME TO RELATE TO THE CONCERNS THAT IOWANS FACE BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST LIKE THE CONCERNS THAT HOOSIERS FACE. WE HAVE THE SAME DREAMS, THE SAME ASPIRATIONS, THE SAME ANXIETIES. AND WHEN I TRAVEL AROUND YOUR STATE, IT'S JUST A LOT LIKE BEING HOME. SO I THINK BEING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO TO SPEAK, I DO THINK THAT'S AN ADVANTAGE.

Borg: I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW UP ON THE QUESTION PARTICULARLY THAT MIKE ASKED ABOUT BEING A MODERATE DEMOCRAT AND ASK A SPECIFIC. IN LATE JUNE THE CONGRESS AND THE SENATE BY ONE VOTE FAILED TO PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED CONGRESS IN THE FUTURE TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PREVENT DESECRATION OF THE FLAG. HOW DO YOU RATIONALIZE YOUR VOTE ON THAT CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT LOST IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY?

Bayh: WELL, DEAN, LET ME SAY THIS; I UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE CAN HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT THAT ISSUE. I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS MYSELF. I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP FOR A VOTE. I THINK THERE ARE OTHER MORE PRESSING ISSUES THAT FACE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. I MENTIONED SOME OF THEM, THE COST OF HEALTH CARE, COLLEGE AFFORDABILITY, RETIREMENT INSECURITIES, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE FOCUSING ON. AND I THINK IT WAS BROUGHT UP BY LEADERS IN THE OTHER PARTY IN A VERY CYNICAL WAY TO TRY AND USE AS A WEDGE ISSUE. SO LET ME GET TO THE DIRECT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION WITH THAT AS A PREFACE. LOOK, THE FLAG IS THE SYMBOL OF OUR COUNTRY. OUT OF HONOR AND RESPECT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DEFENDED OUR COUNTRY AND PAID THE PRICE, I THINK IT DESERVES SOME SPECIAL PROTECTION. AND I THINK WE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT INFRINGING, IN ANY MATERIAL WAY, PEOPLE'S FIRST AMENDMENT LIBERTIES. THEY CAN SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT. THEY CAN DENOUNCE THE PRESIDENT. THEY CAN DENOUNCE THE COUNTRY. I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BUT THEY CAN. SIMPLY SAYING YOU CAN'T BURN THE FLAG I DON'T VIEW AS A SUBSTANTIAL INFRINGEMENT ON THOSE RIGHTS.

Glover: SENATOR, EVERY POLL I'VE SEEN HAS SHOWN THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE DIRECTION OF THINGS IN IRAQ. THEY'RE UNHAPPY ABOUT THE WAR IN IRAQ. WE'RE IN IRAQ. WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT?

Bayh: MIKE, I'M UNHAPPY WITH IT TOO. IT'S A TRAGEDY WHAT HAS HAPPENED THERE. SO, LOOK, LET ME SAY TWO OR THREE THINGS ABOUT THAT. NUMBER ONE, KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW TODAY, I DON'T THINK WE'D GO TO IRAQ. I WOULD NOT VOTE TO TAKE US THERE KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW TODAY. SECONDLY, IT IS BREATHTAKING TO ME THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION CAN HOLD ITSELF OUT AS BEING COMPETENT AND STRONG ON NATIONAL SECURITY AS TERRIBLY AS THEY'VE MISMANAGED THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ. IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THINGS WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT THERE TODAY IF WE HADN'T MADE THE LONG LITANY OF MISTAKES THAT YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH OVER THESE LAST SEVERAL YEARS. AND NOW WE NEED TO LEAVE. AND WE NEED TO LEAVE IN A WAY THAT LEAVES THAT COUNTRY AS STABLE AS WE CAN, BECAUSE IT'S IN OUR BEST INTEREST THAT THERE NOT BE A REGION-WIDE WAR BREAK OUT THAT WOULD DESTABILIZE THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST. SO HERE'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO. YOU'VE GOT TO SET BENCHMARKS ABOUT THE PROGRESS YOU NEED TO MAKE: WHERE WE NEED TO BE A MONTH FROM NOW, TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS; HOW MANY IRAQI TROOPS ARE TRAINED; HOW WELL EQUIPPED; HOW WELL LED; WHAT'S THEIR LOGISTICAL SUPPORT. AND YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A TIME LINE FOR THAT. NOW, IT'S GOT TO BE A LITTLE FLEXIBLE, BECAUSE WARS AREN'T TIDY THINGS THAT YOU CAN JUST CIRCLE A DATE ON THE CALENDAR AND SAY NO MATTER WHAT THE FACTS ARE, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS THEN. YOU'VE GOT TO BE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE THAN THAT. BUT WITHOUT A TIME LINE, WITHOUT BENCHMARKS, THERE'S NEVER GOING TO BE AN END TO THIS. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS MOST DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT WAS WHEN THE PRESIDENT BASICALLY SAID, LOOK, THIS IS FOR MY SUCCESSOR TO DETERMINE WHEN WE LEAVE, HOW MANY TROOPS WE HAVE. THAT IS AN ABDICATION OF RESPONSIBILITY. WE NEED A ROAD MAP THAT GETS US OUT SOONER THAN THAT IN A MORE RESPONSIBLE WAY THAN THAT.

Glover: SO YOU SUPPORT A TIME LINE?

Bayh: A FLEXIBLE ONE. ALMOST EVERY DEMOCRAT DOES. AND IRONICALLY, MIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BEATING US OVER THE HEAD FOR VOTING ON THIS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. GENERAL CASEY, OUR COMMANDER IN IRAQ, OUR TOP COMMANDER, IS PLANNING TO BEGIN TO WITHDRAW TROOPS YET THIS CALENDAR YEAR, AND THEY'RE ATTACKING US FOR THE SAME THING. SO, LOOK, WE ALL WANT TO EXTRICATE OURSELVES FROM IRAQ. WE NEED TO DO IT IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY.

Glover: AND THE PREMISE OF THE QUESTION WAS THAT EVERY POLL I'VE SEEN HAS SAID THAT PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE WAR IN IRAQ. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS SOME SAY DEMOCRATS HAVE IS DEMOCRATS HAVEN'T PRESENTED A UNITED ALTERNATIVE, THAT THERE ARE DIVISIONS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OVER WHAT TO DO ABOUT IRAQ. WHAT ABOUT THOSE DIVISIONS?

Bayh: WELL, THERE ARE SOME DIVERSITY OF THOUGHT. YOU KNOW, WE ARE DEMOCRATS, MIKE. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.

Glover: YOU'RE NOT AN ORGANIZED PARTY.

Bayh: YEAH. IT'S PART OF OUR DNA, RIGHT? BUT, LOOK, WE DO AGREE ON SEVERAL THINGS. ALMOST ALL OF US AGREE THAT KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW TODAY, WE WOULD NOT GO THERE. ALMOST ALL OF US AGREE THAT THIS CONFLICT HAS BEEN TRAGICALLY -- TRAGICALLY MISMANAGED AND THE ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT. AND ALMOST ALL OF US AGREE THAT WE NOW NEED TO HAVE BENCHMARKS AND A FLEXIBLE TIME LINE FOR GETTING OUT OF IRAQ AND LEAVING IT AS STABLE AS WE CAN. THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES IN VIEW IN TERMS OF CIRCLING A PARTICULAR DATE VERSUS WORKING TOWARD THAT DATE BUT ALLOWING SOME FLEXIBILITY FOR EVENTS. BUT THE GENERAL COURSE, THERE'S WIDE AGREEMENT. AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WHAT MOST DEMOCRATS STAND FOR AND THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT IS A YAWNING GAP THAT CERTAINLY DIFFERENTIATES THE TWO PARTIES.

Yepsen: SENATOR, MIKE MENTIONED IRAQ. LET'S DEAL WITH THE REST OF THE AXIS OF EVIL HERE AND YOUR EXPERTISE ON THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE. WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IRAN?

Bayh: NO EASY ANSWER TO THAT ONE, DAVID. FIRST, THIS WOULD BE A LOT EASIER IF THE ADMINISTRATION HAD DEALT WITH THIS AT THE TIME THE PRESIDENT CALLED IRAN PART OF THE AXIS OF EVIL. THAT WAS WHAT, THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO? THEY DID NOTHING AND NOW LOOK WHERE WE ARE. SO WE NEED TO DO TWO THINGS, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW A DIPLOMATIC TRACK, TRY TO RALLY THE REST OF THE WORLD, OTHER COUNTRIES WHO CAN BRING SOME PRESSURE TO BEAR ON IRAN: RUSSIA, FOR EXAMPLE; CHINA, FOR EXAMPLE; THE OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, BECAUSE THEY'RE IN A POSITION TO EXERT A REAL INFLUENCE. FOR EXAMPLE, IRAN IMPORTS 40 PERCENT OF THEIR GASOLINE, PRINCIPALLY FROM EUROPE. IF WE COULD GET AN AGREEMENT THAT IF THEY DON'T AGREE TO SUSPEND THEIR NUCLEAR ACTIVITIES, WE WOULD CUT OFF THEIR GASOLINE IMPORTS. THAT WOULD HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON IRAN. SO PURSUE THE DIPLOMATIC TRACK, BUT SUPPORT THAT DIPLOMATIC TRACK WITH MEANINGFUL SANCTIONS FOR IRAN, BECAUSE MY BEST JUDGMENT, DAVID, IS THEY'VE DETERMINED THEY WANT A NUCLEAR WEAPON AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS UNLESS THERE ARE SOME REAL CONSEQUENCES THAT MAKE THEM CHANGE THAT MIND. SO DIPLOMACY PLUS.

Yepsen: AND NORTH KOREA?

Bayh: WELL, KIND OF THE SAME THING. AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT DENOUNCED THEM BUT THEN IGNORED THEM FOR FIVE YEARS. IT HASN'T GONE VERY WELL. THEY'VE EXPANDED THE NUMBER OF NUCLEAR WARHEADS THEY HAVE. THEY CONTINUE TO TEST THEIR MISSILE TECHNOLOGY. WE NEED TO GET PRINCIPALLY THE CHINESE, THE SOUTH KOREANS, AND THE RUSSIANS WHO COULD HAVE SOME REAL LEVERAGE THERE, TO AGREE UPON A SET OF STEPS THAT IF THE NORTH KOREANS DON'T AGREE TO SUSPEND THEIR CURRENT ACTIVITIES, THERE WILL BE SOME CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM, DAVID, IS THEY DON'T HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT FUNCTIONS VERY WELL. SO THIS IS WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL A BLACKMAIL TO THE REST OF THE WORLD TO TRY TO EXTRACT FROM US FOOD, ENERGY, MONEY, TO KEEP THEMSELVES GOING. THAT'S THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE, AND WE HAVE TO PROVE TO THEM THAT THAT WON'T WORK.

Yepsen: AND AFGHANISTAN --

Glover: LET'S BRING -- SORRY, GO AHEAD.

Yepsen: AND AFGHANISTAN? ARE WE LOSING AFGHANISTAN TO THE TALIBAN?

Bayh: WELL, SOME OF THE TREND LINES ARE NOT VERY ENCOURAGING. YOU KNOW, IRAQ HAS TREMENDOUSLY COMPLICATED THAT SITUATION BECAUSE WE HAVE MUCH LIKE IRAQ, WHEN WE WENT INTO AFGHANISTAN, WE DIDN'T LEAVE NEARLY ENOUGH TROOPS THERE TO STABILIZE THE COUNTRY SO THAT DEVELOPMENT COULD START, THE TALIBAN WOULD RECEDE, AND THE LEGITIMATE AUTHORITIES COULD TAKE ROOT AND BEGIN TO EXPAND THEIR AUTHORITY. INSTEAD WE TRIED TO DO IT ON THE CHEAP. YOU KNOW, ANYTIME YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING AS PROFOUND AS A WAR OR SOMETHING AS COMPLICATED AS, IN THIS CASE, NATION BUILDING IN AFGHANISTAN, YOU'VE GOT TO PLAN FOR THE WORST AND HOPE FOR THE BEST. INSTEAD, THIS ADMINISTRATION DID IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. SO THE TRENDS ARE NOT HOPEFUL IN AFGHANISTAN, BUT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO TRY AND BUILD THAT COUNTRY BECAUSE WE SAW WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO US, NOT TO THEM BUT TO US, WHEN THAT NATION IS ALLOWED TO SINK INTO LAWLESSNESS.

Glover: IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED THAT BECAUSE OF THE EMPHASIS, THE FOCUS, AND THE EXPENSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IN IRAQ, WE'VE LET THESE OTHER FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES FESTER. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

Bayh: MIKE, I DO. I DO. I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN ITS EYE OFF SOME OTHER PRETTY IMPORTANT BALLS. AND YOU'VE -- BOTH OF YOU HAVE ASKED ME ABOUT SOME OF THEM: NORTH KOREA, IRAN, AFGHANISTAN. WE HAVE ALL OF THESE CHALLENGES TO OUR NATION'S SECURITY BUILDING. AND I THINK IT AGAIN GOES TO MAKE THE POINT WHEN KARL ROVE SAYS -- WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE AT THE HEART OF THEIR CAMPAIGN; IT WAS IN 2002, 2004. YOU CAN SEE HIM TEEING UP AGAIN. HE'S GOING TO SAY WE'RE STRONG AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE WEAK. WE'VE GOT TO GO RIGHT BACK AT THEM AND SAY LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE, LOOK AT THE PROBLEMS YOU'VE IGNORED, LOOK HOW BADLY YOU'VE HANDLED THE RESPONSIBILITIES YOU'VE HAD. WE CAN DO BETTER IN TERMS OF PROVIDING FOR THIS NATION'S SECURITY. WE NEED TO GO AT THEM ON THEIR CORE STRENGTH BECAUSE IT'S SUBSTANTIVELY CORRECT AND I THINK IT'S POLITICALLY SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO DO.

Glover: LET'S BRING THIS DISCUSSION BACK HOME AND TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION. THAT SEEMS TO BE AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE THAT DOMINATES A LOT OF THE POLITICAL DEBATE BACK HERE, BUT CONGRESS IS APPARENTLY UNABLE TO DEAL WITH IT. DO YOU AGREE THAT CONGRESS WON'T SOLVE THAT THIS YEAR? AND IF SO, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

Bayh: MIKE, IF I WAS A BETTING MAN, I'D SAY THAT NOTHING WILL GET PASSED THIS YEAR OR, IF IT DOES, IT WILL GET PASSED AFTER THE ELECTION, AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. NOW, YOU ASKED ME ABOUT DIVISIONS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THIS IS PRINCIPALLY BECAUSE OF DIVISIONS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT NOTHING WILL GET DONE. THE PRESIDENT AND SOME OTHERS ARE ACTUALLY DIVIDED FROM THE RIGHT WING OF HIS OWN PARTY. SO, LOOK, WE NEED TO BEGIN WITH SECURITY BECAUSE THAT'S A LEGITIMATE PROBLEM. IF YOU'VE GOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE COMING INTO OUR COUNTRY UNDOCUMENTED, DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE OR WHY THEY'RE HERE, THAT'S JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE DOWN THE ROAD, SO WE'VE GOT TO BEGIN WITH THAT. SECONDLY, THESE 11- AND 12 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY HERE LIVING IN THE SHADOWS, THAT TOO IS A SECURITY PROBLEM. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO LET THEM EARN STATUS. I SAW THE PRESIDENT ON TV EARLIER SAYING HE'S NOT FOR AMNESTY. I'M NOT FOR AMNESTY. THEY'VE GOT TO PAY FINES. THEY'VE GOT TO PAY THEIR TAXES. THEY'VE GOT TO ABIDE BY ALL OUR OTHER LAWS. THEY'VE GOT TO LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH, EARN A PERMANENT STATUS HERE, COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS SO THAT THAT TOO TAKES CARE OF A SECURITY PROBLEM. THE FINAL THING I'D SAY, I VOTED AGAINST THE TEMPORARY WORKER PROGRAM, BUT THAT ENDED UP BEING PART OF FINAL PACKAGE. SO I THINK WE'VE GOT TO FOCUS ON THAT AND TRY AND GET THESE COMPANIES TO DO WHAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HASN'T DONE. ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HERE, IT'S NOT CURRENTLY LEGAL TO HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN A BARE HANDFUL OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS. THEY NEED TO ENFORCE THE LAW.

Yepsen: SENATOR, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. WE'LL STIPULATE YOU'RE FOR ETHANOL, BEING A GOOD HOOSIER POLITICIAN. EVERYBODY IS FOR ETHANOL NOW, ESPECIALLY GUYS FROM INDIANA, RIGHT?

Bayh: YOU'VE GOT THAT RIGHT.

Yepsen: BEYOND THAT, THOUGH, SENATOR, WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING IN THIS COUNTRY? WHAT SHOULD THE NEXT PRESIDENT BE DOING IN THIS COUNTRY TO FOSTER ENERGY INDEPENDENCE?

Bayh: DAVID, I WOULD MAKE THIS ONE OF THE TOP TWO ISSUES FOR THIS COUNTRY. I THINK THE TIME HAS COME FOR A NEW DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. IT NEEDS TO BE TODAY A DECLARATION OF ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. AND THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE -- MIKE, IT GETS BACK TO YOUR QUESTION: THINGS THAT I HAVE DONE, NOT JUST THINGS THAT I'VE SAID OR SPEECHES THAT I'VE GIVEN. WE HAD A RARE MOMENT OF BIPARTISANSHIP, DAVID, IN THE SENATE LAST NOVEMBER. TWELVE SENATORS -- SIX DEMOCRATS, SIX REPUBLICANS -- GATHERED THE SAME PLACE, THE SAME TIME TO ENDORSE THE SAME SET OF ANSWERS TO THIS PROBLEM. IT HAS A VERY CATCHY NAME. IT'S THE BAYH/BROWNBACK ET CETERA, ET CETERA ACT. THAT KIND OF APPEALS TO ME. WHAT IT WOULD DO -- IT STARTS WITH STRONG INCENTIVES TO PRODUCE THE NEXT GENERATION OF HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLES WITH AMERICAN WORKERS RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA, HYBRIDS, PLUG-IN HYBRIDS, ADVANCED DIESEL TECHNOLOGY. WE NEED TO GET MOVING ON THIS. SECONDLY, IT DOES PROVIDE STRONG INCENTIVES FOR THE USE AND DISTRIBUTION OF ETHANOL AND BIODIESEL SO THAT WE CAN RELY ON AMERICA'S FARMERS RATHER THAN THE SHEIKS AND OTHER REGIMES IN THE MIDDLE EAST. AND FINALLY, DAVID, IT DOES A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, BUT IT INVESTS IN KEY TECHNOLOGIES THAT TEN, FIFTEEN, TWENTY YEARS FROM NOW CAN REALLY BREAK THROUGH OUR INDEPENDENCE. BOTTOM LINE, OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS, THIS WOULD REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF ANTICIPATED PETROLEUM CONSUMPTION, OIL CONSUMPTION IN THIS COUNTRY BY 100 PERCENT OF WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IMPORTING FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN TO DO. WITH NEED TO GET ON WITH IT.

Borg: IF YOU WERE TO BE ELECTED PRESIDENT, YOU WOULD -- AND IN THAT AGRICULTURE BILL, YOU WOULD DEAL WITH THE ENTIRE NATION. DAVE HAS ALREADY STIPULATED, BEING FROM INDIANA YOU'RE FOR ETHANOL AND SUPPORT THAT INDUSTRY. AS YOU TRAVEL AROUND IOWA NOW, YOU SEE MORE ETHANOL PLANTS, YOU SEE WHITE ACRES OF WIND ENERGY, WINDMILLS, TURBINES. OVER ALONG THE MISSISSIPPI, YOU'LL SEE BARGES OF IOWA GRAIN FLOATING DOWN THE RIVER TO FOREIGN MARKETS. GIVEN ALL OF THOSE DYNAMICS AND WITH THE FARM BILL COMING UP FOR RENEWAL, WHAT WOULD PRESIDENT EVAN BAYH WANT IN A FARM BILL?

Bayh: WELL, FOR STARTERS, DAVID, WE'VE GOT THIS WHOLE TRADE ISSUE OUT THERE ON THE TABLE, AND TOO MANY OF OUR TRADING PARTNERS HAVE NOT REALLY OPENED UP THEIR MARKETS AS THEY NEED TO, PRINCIPALLY EUROPEANS BUT SOME OTHERS AS WELL. SO I'M NOT FOR UNILATERAL DISARMAMENT UNTIL WE CAN GET AN AGREEMENT. I JUST DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE THE SMART THING TO DO. WE THEN NEED TO BUILD IN SOME THINGS. AND YOU KNOW, I WAS AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY. YOU'VE GOT IOWA STATE HERE. I WAS TAKING A TOUR OF OUR STATE ON THE WHOLE ENERGY QUESTION THAT YOU BOTH RAISED, AND THEY'VE GOT A NEW HYBRID POPLAR TREE AT PURDUE. IT GROWS SIX FEET A YEAR. WHEN THE PROFESSOR TOLD ME THAT, I SAID IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE MY KIDS. BUT THE POINT IS WE NEED TO INVEST IN AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH TO CREATE WHOLE NEW CROPS AND WHOLE NEW USES FOR THOSE CROPS, TO CREATE DEMAND FOR OUR COMMODITIES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE QUITE SO MUCH GOVERNMENT SUPPORT. SO I THINK R AND D IN THE AG SECTOR WOULD BE A BIG PART OF SOMETHING I WOULD ENCOURAGE.

Borg: ARE, THEN, GOVERNMENT PRICE SUPPORTS A THING OF THE PAST?

Bayh: WELL, NOT UNTIL WE CAN GET A GLOBAL TRADE AGREEMENT. AS I SAID, I DON'T THINK UNILATERAL DISARMAMENT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE. BUT IT WOULD BE IN EVERYBODY'S INTERESTS TO DROP THESE TARIFFS, OPEN UP THEIR MARKETS. LOOK, THE FARMERS IN IOWA AND INDIANA ARE THE MOST PRODUCTIVE ON EARTH. WE CAN COMPETE AND SUCCEED IF WE GET A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. I THINK WE NEED TO INSIST ON THAT.

Glover: SENATOR, I'D LIKE TO GET YOU TO DEAL WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AS AN ISSUE, BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO DEAL WITH IT IN A WAY THAT POLITICIANS IN MIDWESTERN STATES LIKE IOWA AND INDIANA DEAL WITH THE ENVIRONMENT. IN IOWA THERE SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM WITH OFFICIALS BALANCING THE NEEDS OF PRODUCTION AGRICULTURE AND THE NEEDS OF CLEAN WATER, CLEAN AIR, AND ALL THAT. HOW WOULD YOU STRIKE THAT BALANCE?

Bayh: WELL, IT'S AN IMPORTANT BALANCE TO STRIKE, MIKE, AND YOU'VE GOT TO DO BOTH, FRANKLY. YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR MORE PRODUCTIVE AGRICULTURE. IT DOES LEAD TO SOME OF THE LARGE LIVESTOCK FACILITIES, WHICH I THINK YOU'RE REFERRING TO, WHICH THEN TEND TO CREATE SOME WATER ISSUES. AND IF THAT DOES, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO HELP PEOPLE MEET THOSE WATER QUALITY STANDARDS IN A WAY THAT CONTINUES TO ALLOW THEM TO PRODUCE EFFECTIVELY. I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER. WE CAN HAVE A VIBRANT, GROWING AGRICULTURAL SECTOR BUT ALSO PROTECT OUR NATURAL RESOURCES. I THINK WE HAVE TO.

Glover: AND A DEBATE THAT'S BEEN RAGING IN THIS STATE FOR YEARS IS WHO DECIDES WHERE THESE PRODUCTION LIVESTOCK FACILITIES ARE LOCATED: SHOULD LOCAL OFFICIALS MAKE THAT DECISION; SHOULD IT BE A STATE DECISION; SHOULD THERE BE STATE STANDARDS, LOCAL? HOW DOES THAT BALANCE WORK IN YOUR MIND?

Bayh: WELL, I'M GOING TO PUT BACK ON MY GOVERNOR'S HAT AGAIN, MIKE, IF THAT'S OKAY. I'M REALLY, AS DAVID HAS HEARD ME SAY, I'M REALLY MORE OF A TWO-TERM GOVERNOR WITH NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE NOW THAT I'M A SENATOR, IF YOU'LL FORGIVE ME. LOOK, I THINK THAT'S A STATE AND LOCAL MATTER TO BE WORKED OUT WITH PARTICULAR DEFERENCE TO LOCAL AUTHORITIES, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT, BUT WITH SOME STATE OVERSIGHT. THAT'S THE WAY WE DID IT IN INDIANA.

Yepsen: SENATOR, WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING? ANYTHING?

Bayh: WELL, DAVID, WE HAVE TO BEGIN. THAT'S GOING TO BE A GENERATION, MAYBE A SEVERAL GENERATIONAL CHALLENGE. AND ONE OF THE ADDITIONAL BENEFITS OF OUR ENERGY BILL THAT I MENTIONED IS IT WOULD BEGIN TO WEAN US OFF OF PETROLEUM CONSUMPTION. AS WE DO THAT AND TURN TO OTHER ENERGY ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES, YOU BEGIN TO DEAL WITH GLOBAL WARMING AS WELL. BUT ANYTIME SOMETHING AS PROFOUNDLY AS IMPORTANT AS THE FUTURE OF THE PLANET IS AT STAKE, CLEARLY WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT A PRIORITY. AND WE'VE GOT TO REACH OUT TO SOME OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA AND INDIA WHO HAVE BEEN UNWILLING TO AGREE TO DO THEIR PART TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND GET THEM TO AGREE, BECAUSE THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO LEAD, WE NEED TO ACT AND MOVE FORWARD. BUT IF THEY DON'T, WITH THE WORLD'S POPULATION ANTICIPATED TO INCREASE 3 TO 4 BILLION PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT FIFTY YEARS, THAT WILL OVERWHELM EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO UNLESS WE CAN GET THEM TO GO ALONG AND DO THEIR PART.

Yepsen: SENATOR, ONE ISSUE THAT COMES UP ALL THE TIME, IT SHOWS UP IN ALL THE POLLS IS HEALTH CARE. WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS PROBLEM OF HEALTH CARE IN AMERICA?

Bayh: I HAD -- I WAS RUNNING OUT OF TIME AT AN EVENT RECENTLY, DAVID, AND I SAID, 'I'VE GOT TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION. COULD SOMEBODY GIVE ME A YES OR NO?' AND THE WOMAN SAID, 'SENATOR, WHAT ABOUT HEALTH CARE?' IT'S NOT A YES OR NO. THIS PROBABLY DESERVES MORE TIME THAN WE HAVE ON THIS PROGRAM, BUT LET ME GIVE YOU THREE OR FOUR SPECIFIC IDEAS. WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE 45- TO 46 MILLION AMERICANS WHO DON'T HAVE HEALTH CARE. AND WE NEED TO DO THAT NOT ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE COMPASSIONATE AND CARE ABOUT THEM, BUT BECAUSE THE WAY IN WHICH THEY GET THEIR HEALTH CARE IS VERY INEFFICIENT AND IT DRIVES UP THE COSTS FOR ALL THE REST OF US THROUGH COST SHIFTING. THE COST IS SHIFTED ONTO THE REST OF US WHO DO HAVE COVERAGE. SO IT'S THE RIGHT THING, THE DECENT THING, THE SMART THING. WHAT TO DO ABOUT THAT? I THINK WE OUGHT TO START BY JUST MAKING A FLAT-OUT COMMITMENT IN THIS COUNTRY THAT EVERY CHILD BORN IN AMERICA STARTING WITH, YOU KNOW, BIRTH TO AGE 18 WILL HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. AND WE CAN DO THAT BY EXPANDING EFFORTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN PLACE. NOW, TO BE CANDID WITH YOU -- YOU'RE GOING TO ASK ME HOW WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THIS -- IT MIGHT MEAN THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD ADDITIONAL NEW TAX CUTS. BUT IF THAT'S THE TRADEOFF, I THINK IT'S A TRADEOFF WORTH MAKING TO ENSURE THAT EVERY CHILD IN THIS COUNTRY HAS QUALITY AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, I'VE SPONSORED LEGISLATION, ACTUALLY AUTHORED IT. MANY SMALL BUSINESSES WANT TO PROVIDE HEALTH CARE, CAN'T AFFORD IT, OR THEY DO PROVIDE IT AND THEY CAN'T EXPAND BECAUSE IT'S COSTING THEM SO MUCH MONEY. I THINK WE OUGHT TO MEET THEM 50/50. FOR EVERY COMPANY A HUNDRED EMPLOYEES AND BELOW, PROVIDE A TAX CREDIT, FIRST 50 PERCENT OF THE COST OF THAT HEALTH CARE. SO THAT WOULD DEAL WITH MILLIONS MORE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR SMALLER BUSINESSES. A COUPLE OTHER THINGS. MANY SMART PEOPLE THINK THAT THROUGH A MORE AGGRESSIVE USE OF TECHNOLOGY, WE CAN MAKE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM 15- TO 20 PERCENT MORE EFFICIENT. SO WHEREVER YOU WOULD GET SICK, YOU'D GO TO YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, WHOEVER IT WAS. WITH YOUR PERMISSION, OF COURSE, TO PRESERVE YOUR PRIVACY, THEY'D TYPE IN YOUR PATIENT ID NUMBER. THEY'D DRAW UP YOUR HEALTH CARE RECORDS SO THEY COULD SEE WHAT YOU'D BEEN TREATED FOR, WHAT HAD WORKED, WHAT HADN'T WORKED, SO THEY WOULDN'T GIVE YOU THE SAME OLD TESTS AGAIN. THAT COULD BE VERY USEFUL. WE NEED TO DO SOME THINGS THERE. THE FINAL THING I'D MENTION REAL QUICKLY, BECAUSE I CAN SEE MIKE IS ITCHING TO GET IN HERE. THERE WAS A GOOD PROPOSAL. NOW, LET ME GIVE SOME CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. I THINK JOHN KERRY MENTIONED THIS IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN, AND I THINK IT'S AN IDEA WE OUGHT TO FOLLOW UP ON: TO HAVE THE PRIVATE SECTOR CONTINUE TO DO WHAT IT DOES VERY EFFICIENTLY PROVIDING THE COVERAGE, BUT WITH THE GOVERNMENT THERE AS A BACKSTOP SO THAT ANYTIME A CASE -- THOSE ONE PERCENT OF CASES, LET'S SAY, THAT EXCEED $50,000, ANYTIME YOU HIT THAT THRESHOLD, YOU TAKE IT OUT OF THE RISK POOL, HAVE THE GOVERNMENT PICK UP THAT COST SO THAT BRINGS DOWN THE INSURANCE RATES FOR EVERYBODY ELSE. THAT SMALL BUSINESSPERSON DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ONE OF THEIR TEN EMPLOYEES GETTING CANCER OR THAT KIND OF THING. THE FINAL THING I'D SAY, YOU KNOW, HEALTHIER LIVING, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO, PARTICULAR THIS PROBLEM OF JUVENILE OBESITY. MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE I'VE GOT YOUNG KIDS I CARE ABOUT. TOO MANY OF OUR KIDS ARE GOING TO PAY MORE FOR HEALTH CARE THROUGH THE COURSE OF THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST PUTTING ON TOO MUCH WEIGHT, SO WE'VE GOT TO TRY AND DEAL WITH THAT. I THINK ABOUT OUR STATE FAIR. MAYBE YOURS IS THE SAME THING. YOU KNOW, THE MOST POPULAR NEW FOOD AT THE INDIANA STATE FAIR, DEEP-FRIED SNICKERS BAR. I SAID THEY OUGHT TO PASS OUT A COMPLIMENTARY LIPITOR WITH EVERY ONE. [ LAUGHTER ] WE'VE GOT TO DO A LITTLE BIT BETTER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STAYING IN SHAPE AND LIVING HEALTHY.

Yepsen: YOU'LL WRECK STATE FAIRS.

Bayh: WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE FUN OUT. WE JUST WANT TO COMPENSATE BY MAYBE GETTING A LITTLE MORE EXERCISE ALONG THE WAY, A LITTLE LESS TV, THAT KIND OF THING.

Glover: SO YOU'D HAVE TO PUT THE PARKING A LITTLE FURTHER AWAY.

Bayh: THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, MIKE. WE'LL PUT THEM IN THE REMOTE CORNER OF THE FAIRGROUNDS.

Glover: SINCE FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, SOCIAL SECURITY HAS BEEN A STAPLE OF AMERICA'S RETIREMENT SYSTEM. CAN YOU ASSURE THE NEXT GENERATION OF AMERICANS THAT SOCIAL SECURITY WILL REMAIN THERE FOR THEM?

Bayh: YES, MIKE, I CAN. IT WILL BE THERE. NO GROUP OF POLITICIANS IS GOING TO DO AWAY WITH SOCIAL SECURITY, AND WE SHOULDN'T. WE NEED TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO STRENGTHEN AND PRESERVE SOCIAL SECURITY. THAT IS A BASIC COMMITMENT OF AMERICA'S SOCIAL FABRIC. WE MADE A FUNDAMENTAL DECISION -- AND IT WAS THE RIGHT DECISION BACK IN THE 1930S -- THAT PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD AND PAY THEIR TAXES SHOULDN'T HAVE TO LIVE IN DIRE POVERTY. WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THOSE DAYS. LOOK, WE'VE GOT AN ACTUARIAL PROBLEM IN SOCIAL SECURITY. WE'VE GOT TO KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE. IT'S REAL AND WE OUGHT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. BUT EVEN IF WE DID NOTHING, THOSE WHO ARE CONTINUING TO WORK WILL PAY ENOUGH IN SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES TO PAY 78 PERCENT OF THE FREIGHT. SO WE START WITH 78 PERCENT ALREADY PAID FOR. WE'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THE OTHER 22 PERCENT, AND I THINK AS WE GO -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY. I WOULDN'T BE FOR THAT. BUT WE WOULD PROBABLY DO SOME THINGS TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE LIKE BILL GATES, FOR EXAMPLE, WARREN BUFFET WHO HAS RECENTLY BEEN SO CHARITABLE, THAT THEY'LL GET THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS IF THEY WANT TO COLLECT THEM. THEY'LL EVEN GET AN INFLATIONARY INCREASE, BUT THE CURRENT SYSTEM EVEN GIVES THEM GROWTH OVER AND ABOVE WHAT THEY PAID IN OVER AND ABOVE INFLATION. WE MIGHT NEED TO LOOK AT THAT FOR THE MOST AFFLUENT AMONG US.

Yepsen: SENATOR, IN ABOUT FIFTEEN SECONDS, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS AMERICA'S ROLE IN THE WORLD IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS?

Bayh: IN FIFTEEN SECONDS, DAVID? WE NEED TO BE A BEACON FOR PEOPLE'S ASPIRATIONS, BOTH AT HOME AND ABROAD: FREEDOM TO CHOOSE YOUR OWN ELECTED OFFICIALS; FREEDOM TO WORSHIP GOD AS YOU SEE FIT; THE FREEDOM TO ENJOY THE FRUITS OF YOUR OWN LABORS. AND IF

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