Iowa Public Television

 

Democratic Presidential Forum Reporters' Roundtable

posted on June 29, 2007

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Borg: IOWA PERSPECTIVE... THE FIRST-IN-THE-NATION CAUCUSES LOOM LARGE IN CAMPAIGN STRATEGY. IOWA POLITICAL JOURNALISTS REVIEW THIS EVENING'S DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE DEBATE ON THIS EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.' >> FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY 'FRIENDS,' THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE THURSDAY, JUNE 28 EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.' HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: GOOD EVENING. THE KEY ISSUES DRIVING THE 2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN NATIONALLY ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME CONCERNS THAT CANDIDATES ENCOUNTER WHEN THEY CAMPAIGN IN IOWA: TROOPS IN IRAQ AND THE MIDDLE EAST TINDER BOX; IMMIGRATION ISSUES; HEALTH CARE, ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY THERE; AND OF COURSE, THE USUAL LIST OF DIVISIVE SOCIAL ISSUES. YOU'VE HEARD THOSE ISSUES AS THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFULS MET ON TAVIS SMILEY'S 'THE ALL-AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL FORUMS' AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY WITHIN THE PAST COUPLE OF HOURS. WE'VE CONVENED IOWA POLITICAL REPORTERS NOW FOLLOWING THE CANDIDATES CAMPAIGNING THROUGHOUT THE STATE, LISTENING AND MEASURING THE MESSAGES AND HOW THEY'RE RESONATING WITH IOWA DEMOCRATS: 'RADIO IOWA' NEWS DIRECTOR KAY HENDERSON; 'ASSOCIATED PRESS' SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER MIKE GLOVER; 'LEE NEWSPAPERS' CAPITAL BUREAU CHIEF TODD DORMAN; AND 'LEE NEWSPAPERS' POLITICAL REPORTER CHARLOTTE EBY. MIKE, YOU HAVE COVERED POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS, PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS. YOU'VE TRAVELED ON THE LAST CAMPAIGN. I'M TRYING TO SET YOU UP AS A REAL EXPERT BECAUSE I'M COMING TO YOU WITH THE FIRST QUESTION --

Glover: I'LL TRY NOT TO DISAPPOINT YOU, DEAN.

Borg: -- BECAUSE I'M ASKING YOU TO ANALYZE AND TELL ME YOUR REACTION TO WHAT YOU SAW HERE TONIGHT.

Glover: WELL, WHAT I SAW WAS A COUPLE OF THINGS TO REACT TO. ONE, I DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE CANDIDATES. THEY DID NOT CHART OUT SHARP DIFFERENCES WITH EACH OTHER. THERE WERE NO CLASHES. THERE WERE NO DIFFERENT IDEAS. YOU HAD A GROUP OF CANDIDATES ON THAT STAGE ALL PANDERING TO THE SAME AUDIENCE, A KEY DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUENCY, EACH TRYING TO GO A LITTLE BIT PAST THE OTHER IN APPEALING TO THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY. ONE OF THE PHRASES THAT STRUCK ME THAT I HEARD MOST OFTEN IN THAT DEBATE WAS 'EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID UP TO NOW IS RIGHT, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD THIS AND GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.' SO I DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF DIFFERENCES. AND ALSO WHAT I DIDN'T HEAR -- YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE DRIVING THIS CAMPAIGN. I DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT A LOT OF THE ISSUES DRIVING THIS CAMPAIGN. THE WAR CAME UP BUT THERE WERE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. A BIG IMMIGRATION BILL GOT KNOCKED DOWN, AND I DIDN'T HEAR A LOT ABOUT THAT. DIDN'T HEAR A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES DRIVING THIS CAMPAIGN. THIS WAS A VERY TARGETED DEBATE, TARGETED TOWARD A SINGLE CONSTITUENCY.

Borg: CHARLOTTE, HE USED THE WORD 'PANDERING.' DID YOU -- WOULD YOU USE THAT WORD, 'PANDERING,' TONIGHT?

Eby: I'M NOT QUITE SURE I'D USE 'PANDERING,' BUT I SEE HIS POINT. I MEAN EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO APPEAL TO THIS PARTICULAR GROUP AND NOT NECESSARILY BREAKING ANY NEW GROUND. EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY TONIGHT AND SAID IT.

Borg: TODD?

Dorman: WELL, THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF BIG SURPRISES. THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK WHEN THE IRAQ WAR CAME UP. IT WAS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THIS WAR IS TOO EXPENSIVE AND IT'S TAKING A LOT OF MONEY AWAY FROM SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WE OUGHT TO BE ADDRESSING, HEALTH CARE AND OTHER THINGS. IT STRUCK ME AS I LISTENED TO IT WHAT IT MIGHT SOUND LIKE TO A BROADER AUDIENCE, A MORE GENERAL-ELECTION AUDIENCE INSTEAD OF JUST THE NARROW GROUP THAT IT WAS AIMED AT. YOU KNOW, THEY HEARD ABOUT THAT THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE IN PRISON. THEY HEARD ABOUT THAT THERE'S TOO LITTLE BEING SPENT ON GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. THEY DIDN'T HEAR A LOT ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW WELL SOME OF THIS PLAYED TO A BROADER AUDIENCE, BUT IT PLAYED VERY WELL TO THE AUDIENCE IT WAS AIMED AT.

Borg: KAY, I'LL LET YOU BE CLEAN-UP ON THIS QUESTION.

Henderson: WELL, THERE WERE SEVERAL THINGS THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THIS DEBATE. THERE WAS -- THERE WERE TWO -- THERE WERE CLEARLY TWO TIERS OF CANDIDATES. OBAMA, CLINTON, AND EDWARDS DID VERY WELL.

Borg: DID YOU SEE THAT COME THROUGH TONIGHT?

Henderson: YES, YOU REALLY DID. CLINTON AND EDWARDS SPECIFICALLY OFFERED POINT-BY-POINT ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE POSED TO THEM. I THINK SENATOR CLINTON BENEFITTED FROM BEING THE FIRST PERSON TO GET TO SPEAK IN THE EVENING. SHE, I GUESS, PROBABLY ELICITED THE MOST CROWD -- THE MOST BOISTEROUS CROWD RESPONSE IN HER ANSWER TO A QUESTION ABOUT HIV AND AIDS. I THOUGHT THE BOTTOM-TIER CANDIDATES TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH IN PERHAPS A FORUM SUCH AS THIS REALLY DIDN'T SHINE TONIGHT AND HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY. SECONDLY, I THINK IF I WERE ONE OF THOSE FOLKS THAT TODD JUST MENTIONED, SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST TROLLING THROUGH THE AIRWAVES AND THE OFFICE WAS A RERUN AND THEY DECIDED TO WATCH PUBLIC TELEVISION TONIGHT, THAT IF THEY WATCHED THIS, THE MOST MEMORABLE MOMENT FOR THEM WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CANDIDATES. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WHAT THE HOST, TAVIS SMILEY, SAID ABOUT PARIS HILTON. IF REALLY TAKE THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF PEOPLE WHO AREN'T INTIMATELY AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, THAT WAS THE MOST MEMORABLE MOMENT OF THE NIGHT.

Borg: WE SHOULD EXPLAIN, MIKE, THAT REFERENCE FOR THOSE WHO MAYBE DIDN'T SEE THE ENTIRE DEBATE. IT WAS BY THE HOST SAYING -- THE MODERATOR SAYING THEY'RE NOT GETTING AS MUCH TIME TONIGHT AS PARIS HILTON GOT ON --

Henderson: LARRY KING.

Borg: -- LARRY KING LIVE LAST NIGHT.

Glover: I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS -- YOU HAVE TO STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THIS DEBATE AS PART OF A PROCESS. AND TODD IS RIGHT; THIS DEBATE DIDN'T OFFER A GREAT DEAL TO INDEPENDENT VOTERS, WHO WILL LIKELY DECIDE THE ELECTION COME NOVEMBER. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT BOTH PARTIES ARE DOING RIGHT NOW. DEMOCRATS ARE BUSILY DIVING TO THE LEFT IN THIS PRIMARY CAMPAIGN, WHICH IS WHAT THEY DO IN PRIMARY CAMPAIGNS. THIS WEEKEND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO BE IN IOWA DIVING TO THE RIGHT. THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING A FORUM BEFORE IOWANS FOR TAX RELIEF AND THE IOWA CHRISTIAN ALLIANCE. THEY'LL BE MOVING TO THE RIGHT. AFTER THEY HAVE NOMINEES, IT'S THEIR TRADITION -- A GREAT TRADITION OF AMERICAN POLITICS, IN THE PRIMARY SEASON DEMOCRATS DIVE TO THE LEFT, REPUBLICANS DIVE TO THE RIGHT, AND THEN THEY TRY TO SCRAMBLE BACK TO THE MIDDLE. THE ONE EXCEPTION TO THAT I CAN RECALL IN MY CAREER COVERING POLITICS WAS BILL CLINTON IN 1992. BILL CLINTON RESISTED THE URGE TO DIVE TO THE LEFT. IN FACT, I WAS WATCHING THAT DEBATE TONIGHT, SEEING THE DEMOCRATS -- AND I'LL STICK WITH PANDER, CHARLOTTE -- PANDER TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY. I REMEMBER WHAT BILL CLINTON DID IN 1992 WAS HE ATTACKED A BLACK LEADER NAMED SISTER SOULJAH TO MAKE THE CASE TO MODERATE SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS AND WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

Borg: TODD, THE OVERALL TENOR OF THIS DEBATE TONIGHT, DID IT AT ALL DIFFER FROM WHAT YOU'D SEEN AMONG THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES APPEARING IN A JOINT FORUM LIKE THIS BEFORE?

Dorman: WELL, IT WAS SIMILAR. MIKE GRAVEL WAS SORT OF CRANKY ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS. EVERYBODY ELSE WAS KIND OF IN A LOVE FEST. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES BARACK OBAMA TURNED AND SAID, YOU KNOW, 'I AGREE EXACTLY WITH WHAT JOHN EDWARDS SAID, AND I'D LIKE TO ADD TO THAT,' LIKE MIKE SAID EARLIER. I AGREE WITH KAY TOO. I THOUGHT HILLARY CLINTON DID A GOOD JOB. I MEAN MAYBE SHE BENEFITS FROM THE FACT THAT THIS WAS BILL CLINTON'S AUDIENCE WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT, AND SHE PROBABLY -- SOME OF THAT'S PROBABLY RUBBED OFF ON HER CAMPAIGN STYLE. I THINK THERE WAS PROBABLY A LOT OF PRESSURE ON BARACK OBAMA TONIGHT. I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF EYES ON HOW HE WOULD ANSWER QUESTIONS BEFORE THIS AUDIENCE. I THOUGHT HE WAS PRETTY SOLID, NOT TERRIBLY EXCITING OR FLASHY, DIDN'T PULL OFF ANY REAL MEMORABLE LINES, BUT HELD HIS OWN.

Borg: WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, CHARLOTTE? HE BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT. THIS WAS AN AUDIENCE THAT HE WOULD NATURALLY FIT INTO, ALTHOUGH THEY HAVEN'T, HAVE THEY, MIKE, EMBRACED OBAMA?

Glover: NO, NO. AND HE'S VERY CAREFULLY NOT RUN AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CANDIDATE. HE'S RUN AS A CANDIDATE WHO HAPPENS TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

Borg: SO, CHARLOTTE, IN THAT CONTEXT --

Eby: HE DID A GOOD JOB TONIGHT, BUT I DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT REALLY DISTINGUISHED HIM IN FRONT OF THIS AUDIENCE. LIKE WE SAID, HILLARY CLINTON DID A GOOD JOB IN FRONT OF THIS GROUP. SHE KNEW THE POINTS THAT SHE NEEDED TO MAKE. SHE HAD THE BIGGEST APPLAUSE LINE OF THE EVENING. ALSO, JOHN EDWARDS DID WELL TOO. EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HEARD THIS THEME OVER AND OVER AGAIN OF TWO AMERICAS, HE WAS ABLE TO WEAVE IT THROUGH ALL OF THE QUESTIONS.

Glover: AND I THINK WHAT YOU'LL SEE WHEN YOU READ THE ANALYSIS IN THE MORNING NEWSPAPERS, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS BARACK OBAMA GOT PANNED FOR THE FIRST TWO DEBATES HE WAS IN. HIS PERFORMANCE WAS NOT UP TO THE LEVEL OF EXPECTATIONS THAT PEOPLE HAD SET FOR HIM. I THINK YOU'LL SEE THE SAME THING FOR THIS DEBATE. HE'S AN EXCITING, ELECTRIC CHARACTER, BUT I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW WHO ARE SAYING, MMM, WHAT'S THE STEP FOR THE NEXT PHASE. HE NEEDED TO DO A LITTLE BIT BETTER I THINK THAN HE DID TONIGHT.

Henderson: AND, YOU KNOW, DIVING DOWN INTO SORT OF THE DETAIL OF THIS DEBATE, WHAT YOU SAW FROM MR. EDWARDS WAS HIM PUNCHING AWAY AT ISSUE AFTER ISSUE. AS HE ANSWERED THOSE QUESTIONS, THE CROWD WAS INTERRUPTING HIM WITH APPLAUSE AND APPLAUDING THROUGHOUT HIS ANSWER; WHEREAS, IN MR. OBAMA'S CASE, THERE WERE OFTENTIMES WHEN THEY MERELY APPLAUDED AT THE END OF HIS ANSWER. THAT WAS THE OTHER INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS DEBATE WAS THE APPLAUSE. IT'S NOT OFTEN THAT THESE DEBATES ARE SORT OF BUOYED WITH THE AUDIENCE REACTION. IN MANY INSTANCES PEOPLE ARE TOLD NOT TO APPLAUD OR MURMUR, AS WAS THE CASE WHEN MIKE GRAVEL SUGGESTED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE END THE WAR ON DRUGS.

Glover: WE WERE LAUGHING AS WE WERE WATCHING THIS DEBATE -- AS THE FOUR OF US WERE WATCHING THIS DEBATE PREPARING FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM, HOW MUCH DEBATES IN THIS ELECTION CYCLE HAVE BECOME ALMOST -- THE CANDIDATES ARE IRRELEVANT. THE DEBATES REALLY ARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE RESPONSE TO THE DEBATE THAT PUT THEM ON. WE WERE TWENTY MINUTES INTO THE DEBATE BEFORE WE SAW A CANDIDATE. THIS WAS ABOUT HOWARD UNIVERSITY AND PROMOTING THAT INSTITUTION.

Borg: THAT BRINGS UP -- I REMEMBER EARLY IN THE DEBATE, IN FACT WHEN ALASKA'S MIKE GRAVEL GOT ON -- FIRST OF ALL, ONE OF THE FIRST WORDS OUT, HE SAID HE WAS APPRECIATING THIS WAS A FAIR DEBATE. WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THAT?

Glover: HE WAS IN IT. [ LAUGHTER ]

Borg: IS THAT ALL, BECAUSE HE'S BEEN IN OTHERS?

Glover: FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, YEAH. FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE -- I MEAN HE IS NOT A -- WHEN KAY MENTIONS TOP TIER, LOWER TIER, MIKE GRAVEL IS STRUGGLING TO GET INTO THE BOTTOM TIER. HE'S, FRANKLY, BEEN EXCLUDED FROM A LOT OF DEBATES, SO I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY BE PLEASED ANYTIME HE'S INCLUDED, SO I THINK -- ACTUALLY I WAS SERIOUS ABOUT THAT; HE THINKS IT WAS A FAIR DEBATE BECAUSE HE WAS IN IT.

Borg: HE SORT OF THREW A BOMBSHELL, IF I HEARD CORRECTLY. WE WERE HERE AT THE TABLE PREPARING TO TAKE THE AIR, BUT HE THREW A BOMBSHELL RIGHT AT THE LAST, KAY.

Henderson: WELL, HE ACCUSED HIS RIVALS OF LACKING MORAL JUDGMENT, WHICH DREW A FEW BOOS FROM THE AUDIENCE. IT WAS KIND OF A WEIRD ENDING TO THIS DEBATE.

Glover: AGAIN, I THINK IT GOES BACK TO WHOM HE IS. I MEAN HE IS A CANDIDATE THAT IS SUCH A LONG SHOT THAT TO GET ANY ATTENTION AT ALL -- AND HE'S LOOKING AT ALL THE CANDIDATES ON THE STAGE SAYING, 'HOW CAN I GET AT LEAST A LINE IN MOST STORIES ABOUT THIS DEBATE TOMORROW?' WELL, THE WAY HE CAN AT LEAST GET A LINE IS BY SAYING SOME OUTRAGEOUS, PARTICULARLY RIGHT AT THE END.

Dorman: IT WAS INTERESTING, TOO, LISTENING TO NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON, WHO IS ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE ON THE STAGE THAT WASN'T A MEMBER OF CONGRESS, AND THE WAY HE ANSWERED SOME OF THE QUESTIONS. I MEAN THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT TAX POLICY, FOR INSTANCE, AND EVERYONE ELSE IS TALKING ABOUT, WELL, WE'VE GOT TO ROLL BACK TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH SO WE CAN AFFORD DOMESTIC PROGRAMS. HE AS A GOVERNOR WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT CUTTING TAXES FOR MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT GOVERNORS DO IN STATES. I MEAN THAT KIND OF DIFFERENTIATED HIM FROM A LOT OF THE PACK, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE MORE INTEREST IN HIS CAMPAIGN LATELY.

Eby: AND HE TALKED ABOUT BEING A PRO-GROWTH DEMOCRAT AND THE NEED TO GIVE TAX CREDITS TO BUSINESSES AND CREATE JOBS, AND WE DIDN'T HEAR THAT FROM THE OTHER CANDIDATES TONIGHT.

Glover: AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME, CHARLOTTE, AS I WATCHED THAT DEBATE WAS JUST THE PROBLEM THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FACE WHEN THEY RUN FOR PRESIDENT. TRY AS THEY CAN, THEY CAN'T PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THAT DOME. THEY THINK LIKE THEY'RE IN THAT DOME. IT'S JUST LIKE ON A STATE LEVEL WHEN MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE RUN FOR GOVERNOR, THEY START -- ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE ON THE STUMP, THEY'RE QUOTING BILL NUMBERS AND WHAT ABOUT THIS VOTE ON AMENDMENT S22, AND PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THEM LIKE THEY HAVE THREE HEADS.

Dorman: YEAH, NOTHING EXCITES PEOPLE LIKE SAYING, I SPONSORED A PIECE OF LEGISLATION JUST RECENTLY --

Glover: YEAH, AND I VOTED NO ON THAT MOTION TO RECONSIDER ON S2246. I MEAN EYES ARE CLOSING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. BUT I REALLY GOT THAT SENSE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT FIELD WHO ARE IN CONGRESS THAT THEY ACTUALLY CAN'T PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THAT INSTITUTION, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE.

Henderson: THE OTHER OBSERVATION THAT I MIGHT MAKE -- I'LL BE ACCUSED OF BEING THE 'PEOPLE' MAGAZINE REPORTER THIS EVENING, BUT I WAS A BIT UNDONE BY THE SET. THE SET WAS A LITTLE BUSY, AND SO MY EYES WERE ATTRACTED TO THAT MAP OF THE UNITED STATES. BEFORE AND AS IT BEGAN I WAS A LITTLE WORRIED THAT I'D MISSED A MAJOR EARTHQUAKE REPORT BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS HUGE SCHISM THAT DIVIDED EAST FROM WEST. IT WAS A LITTLE -- I WAS A LITTLE UNDONE BY THE SET AND WAS WATCHING IT ALMOST AS MUCH AS I WAS WATCHING --

Dorman: WELL, WE WERE IN THAT GAP TOO. IF YOU NOTICED, IOWA WAS IN THE --

Henderson: YEAH, EXACTLY.

Glover: THAT ACTUALLY -- KAY, THAT'S A GOOD POINT BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO SOMETHING I SAID EARLIER. THIS DEBATE WAS NOT ABOUT THOSE CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT. THIS DEBATE WAS ABOUT THE PEOPLE PUTTING THAT DEBATE ON. THE WHOLE EVENING WAS FILLED WITH SELF-CONGRATULATORY. THEY SPENT MORE TIME PATTING THEMSELVES ON THE BACK THAN THEY DID QUESTIONING THESE CANDIDATES.

Borg: WELL, IT SAYS SOMETHING WHEN THE RHETORIC DOESN'T CAPTURE KAY CLOSELY ENOUGH THAT SHE'S OFF LOOKING AT HOW THE SET IS AND WHETHER IOWA SHOWS ON THE MAP AND SO ON.

Henderson: WELL, I'M A CHILD OF TELEVISION TOO.

Borg: BACK TO THE FACT, THOUGH, THAT IT WAS BEFORE A KEY CONSTITUENT GROUP AND IT WAS AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY, DID YOU HEAR ANY OF THE CANDIDATES -- YOU USED THE WORD 'PANDER,' BUT CAN YOU GIVE A REAL CONCRETE EXAMPLE OF PANDERING TONIGHT ON ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT, BECAUSE IT WAS THIS AUDIENCE IN THIS SETTING, MIKE, DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING SAID THAT PANDERED?

Glover: WHAT I -- WHAT I -- AND I'LL STICK WITH IT, DEAN AND CHARLOTTE. IT WAS NOT ANY ONE PARTICULAR ISSUE. ON EVERY ISSUE THAT CAME UP, THEY ZEROED IN ON A CONCERN OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY. I DON'T USE 'PANDER' AS A NEGATIVE TERM. I USE 'PANDER' AS A DESCRIPTION FOR A GROUP OF POLITICIANS FOCUSING ON THE CONCERNS OF A PARTICULAR INTEREST GROUP. FOR EXAMPLE, DO YOU THINK ONE OF THE TOP CONCERNS OF MOST AMERICANS IS THE PERCENTAGE OF PRISON POPULATION IN AMERICA THAT IS MINORITY? I MEAN IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A TERRIBLE THING, OR IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE AN OVERWHELMINGLY BAD THING, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S WHAT'S DRIVING THIS ELECTION. I DON'T THINK IT'S WHAT'S ON THE MINDS OF MOST AMERICANS, BUT EVERY CANDIDATE OUT THERE MADE A POINT OF POINTING THAT OUT.

Borg: IT'S NOT A POINT YOU WOULD HEAR IN AN IOWA CAFE.

Glover: NO, NO. IF YOU GO TO JEFFERSON, IOWA, AND YOU WALK INTO A COFFEE SHOP, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR THE WOMAN BEHIND THE COUNTER TALK ABOUT, GEE, I'M REALLY UPSET ABOUT THIS MINORITY PRISON POPULATION. LIKE I SAY, MAY OR MAY NOT BE A GOOD ISSUE. IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A BAD THING, BUT IT'S FOCUSING ON THE CONCERNS OF A PARTICULAR CONSTITUENCY.

Borg: THAT BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT THERE, AND I'LL ASK YOU SPECIFICALLY. I'LL JUST SAY IT THIS WAY, CHARLOTTE. HOW WAS -- WHAT WAS SAID TONIGHT, HOW IS THAT GOING TO PLAY IN IOWA?

Eby: WELL, LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT, A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT WEREN'T NECESSARILY ISSUES THAT WERE DRIVING THE CAMPAIGN. I MEAN THEY WERE INTERESTING TO THE AUDIENCE THERE AND SOME KEY CONSTITUENCIES, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR ABOUT, SAY, MANDATORY MINIMUM PRISON SENTENCES AND OTHER THINGS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

Borg: SO THE REAL OVERALL QUESTION THERE IS, PHRASED ANOTHER WAY, DOES IT AT ALL INFLUENCE THE DYNAMIC OF THE FIRST-IN-THE-NATION PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE CAUCUS?

Glover: NO. NO, I DON'T THINK -- I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING OUT THERE THAT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE DYNAMIC. KAY REFERRED TO IT. THE DYNAMIC OF THE TOP TIER IS OBAMA, EDWARDS, AND CLINTON. YOU CAN GO TO VARIOUS POLLS TO SEE WHO IS ONE, TWO, AND THREE. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING TONIGHT TO CHANGE THAT. IF YOU'RE TALKING IN TERMS OF ENERGIZING THE MINORITY COMMUNITY, I THINK THE VEHICLE THAT WILL DO THAT WILL COME LATER THIS YEAR WHEN IOWA HISPANICS AND IOWA AFRICAN-AMERICAN GROUPS SPONSOR A DEBATE HERE IN DES MOINES FOCUSING ON MINORITY ISSUES. I THINK MINORITY GROUP MEMBERS IN IOWA, WHO CAN PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THOSE CAUCUSES, WILL BE PAYING FAR MORE ATTENTION TO THAT.

Borg: HOW WILL THIS PLAY OVERALL NATIONALLY? LET'S EXPAND IT OUT OF IOWA. HOW IS IT GOING TO PLAY NATIONALLY, IN THAT THIS WAS A SPECIFIC CONSTITUENT GROUP, TODD, AND IT WAS AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY? THERE ARE OTHER KEY CONSTITUENT GROUPS. NOW, LABOR WOULD ENCOMPASS BOTH -- ALL RACES AND SO ON, SO IT WOULDN'T THERE, BUT IT MIGHT AMONG THE HISPANIC VOTE.

Dorman: YOU KNOW, I MEAN I THINK THERE -- I THINK THERE WERE UNIVERSAL MESSAGES IN THE DEBATE TONIGHT THAT -- I MEAN THEY DON'T -- AS MIKE SAID, THEY DON'T CHANGE THE RACE, BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT DEMOCRATS NEED TO HEAR FROM CANDIDATES. THEY NEED TO HEAR THAT THEY'RE SICK OF WHAT THEY SEE AS THE RICH GETTING RICHER, A TAX SYSTEM THAT BENEFITS THE WEALTHY. THEY'RE SICK OF A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT ISN'T COVERING PEOPLE. THEY'RE SICK OF POVERTY IN THE INNER CITIES. THEY'RE TIRED OF A JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT THEY DON'T THINK IS FAIR TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ECONOMIC RESOURCES. I THINK -- I THINK THOSE THINGS WERE DISCUSSED TONIGHT, AND DEMOCRATS EXPECT TO HEAR THOSE THINGS FROM THEIR CANDIDATES. SO IN THAT, EACH OF THEM ACCOMPLISHED THAT. DOES IT CHANGE THE RACE AT ALL? DOES IT CHANGE THE WAY ANY PARTICULAR GROUP THINKS OF THESE CANDIDATES? PROBABLY NOT. BUT IF THESE CANDIDATES DON'T SAY THAT, THEN THAT'S -- I MEAN THAT'S BAD NEWS FOR THEM. DEMOCRATS WANT TO HEAR THIS STUFF.

Glover: YOUR POINT IS ACTUALLY QUITE WELL TAKEN, DEAN: HOW WILL IT PLAY WITH OTHER MINORITY GROUPS? AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE NOT THE LARGEST MINORITY GROUP IN IOWA. HISPANICS ARE BY A SIGNIFICANT MARGIN. HISPANICS ARE THE LARGEST AND FASTEST GROWING MINORITY GROUP IN THIS STATE, AND THEY ARE ORGANIZING TO PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THOSE CAUCUS. SO I THINK THAT IF I WERE A HISPANIC LEADER, I MIGHT BE SAYING RIGHT NOW, WHERE'S MY SPOT. AND IT THINK IT WAS VERY SMART FOR THE ORGANIZERS OF THE BLACK AND BROWN DEBATE IN DES MOINES TO BRING HISPANICS INTO THAT AND INCLUDE THEM IN A LARGER MINORITY DEBATE.

Borg: WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, BARACK OBAMA, A LITTLE BIT DISTINGUISHING, MIKE GRAVEL AND SOME OF THE THINGS HE SAID. DID YOU SEE TONIGHT ANYONE ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON EITHER DISTINGUISH OR PERHAPS STUMBLE. NOW, I THINK BY NOW YOU WOULD HAVE SAID -- IF ANYONE REALLY STUMBLED TONIGHT, YOU WOULD HAVE POINTED THAT OUT. KAY?

Henderson: I THINK THE SURPRISE OF THE PAST COUPLE OF DEBATES HAS BEEN THE PERFORMANCE OF BILL RICHARDSON. HE HAS A TERRIFIC RESUME BUT HE'S JUST NOT KNOCKING THE BALL OUT OF THE PARK AT THESE EVENTS. HE HAS A GREAT RAPPORT WITH AUDIENCES IN IOWA. HE HAS A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR. HE'S A BACK-SLAPPIN' KIND OF GUY, BUT WHEN HE GETS IN THE DEBATES, I CAN'T DESCRIBE IT. THE BILL RICHARDSON THAT I SAW ON MY TELEVISION TONIGHT IS NOT THE BILL RICHARDSON THAT I SEE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IN IOWA.

Glover: THE BILL RICHARDSON YOU SEE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL -- YOU'RE RIGHT, BY THE WAY. THE BILL RICHARDSON YOU SEE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IN IOWA IS A VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE CANDIDATE IN A RETAIL POLITICAL STATE LIKE IOWA. SO I DON'T THINK THIS DEBATE PARTICULARLY HELPED HIM A LOT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT HURT HIM A LOT EITHER, BECAUSE HE'S LAYING AN AWFUL LOT OF GOODWILL AROUND THIS STATE. I THINK RIGHT NOW HE'S RUNNING THE PERFECT CAMPAIGN FOR VICE PRESIDENT.

Borg: WELL, THAT BRINGS UP A LARGER POINT. ARE THERE CANDIDATES AMONG THOSE WE SAW TONIGHT WHO ARE BETTER IN A ONE-ON-ONE SETTING IN IOWA CAUCUS STATE CAMPAIGN THAN THEY ARE APPEARING IN A NATIONAL FORUM LIKE THIS? NOW, YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU NOTICED THAT BILL RICHARDSON CONSISTENTLY, APPARENTLY IN YOUR JUDGMENT, HASN'T PERFORMED WELL IN THE NATIONALLY TELEVISED FORUMS BUT DOES ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IN SMALL GROUPS.

Henderson: DO YOU WANT ME TO CITE A SPECIFIC INSTANCE?

Borg: YES.

Henderson: TONIGHT IN HIS ANSWER TO THE HIV/AIDS QUESTION, HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO GET THAT QUESTION AND HE SORT OF FLUBBED IT. HE KEPT TALKING ABOUT NEEDLES. IT WAS KIND OF OFFPUTTING. AND THEN A LITTLE LATER ON A COUPLE OF THE REST OF THEM GOT TO GIGGLING ABOUT CONDOMS AND AIDS TEST, AND IT SORT OF EVOLVED INTO BARACK OBAMA MAKING THE POINT THAT WHEN HE WAS IN AFRICA HE AND HIS WIFE GOT THE AIDS TEST AS A SHOW -- AS AN EXAMPLE, RATHER THAN HAVING TO GET THE TEST FOR YOU KNOW WHAT. SO I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING MOMENT IN THE DEBATE, BECAUSE I WOULD EXPECT RICHARDSON TO HAVE HAD A MORE COMPELLING ANSWER. AND WHEN HE DIDN'T, STUMBLED, JUST LIKE I HAVE.

Dorman: HILLARY CLINTON HAD KIND OF THE STAND-UP-AND-CHEER LINE OF THE NIGHT WHEN SHE PROCLAIMED THAT IF HIV AIDS WERE THE NUMBER ONE KILLER AMONG WOMEN BETWEEN THE AGES 18 AND 34 THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY FOOT DRAGGING THE COUNTRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADDRESS IT HERE AND ACROSS THE GLOBE. AND PEOPLE STOOD AND CHEERED. AND LIKE I SAY, SHE UNDERSTANDS HOW TO TALK TO THESE AUDIENCES. SHE UNDERSTANDS THESE ISSUES. I MEAN SHE'S AS AN EXPERIENCED A CAMPAIGNER, BOTH ONE-ON-ONE AND IN SETTINGS LIKE THIS, AS ANYBODY ON THE TRAIL.

Glover: AND SHE MADE THE POINT THAT IF HIV AIDS HAD BEEN THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF WHITE WOMEN --

Dorman: OF WHITE WOMEN, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S IMPORTANT.

Glover: -- IN THAT AGE GROUP. THAT'S WHAT GOT EVERYBODY JUMPING TO THEIR FEET, BECAUSE IT IS, IN FACT, THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF BLACK WOMEN IN THE SAME AGE GROUP.

Henderson: AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IT WASN'T EVERYBODY. IT WAS THE BLACK WOMEN IN THE AUDIENCE. BLACK MEN WERE NOT GETTING TO THEIR FEET ON THAT ONE.

Glover: AND I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING, NOW THAT YOU MENTION THAT, OBAMA, WHO TALKS A LOT ABOUT HIS TIES TO THE BLACK RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY, WHICH INCIDENTALLY IS NOT A TERRIBLY SOCIALLY PROGRESSIVE GROUP -- THE BLACK RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY IS ACTUALLY FAIRLY CONSERVATIVE ON ISSUES LIKE AIDS, ON ISSUES LIKE ABORTION, A LOT OF SOCIAL ISSUES. IT'S A PRETTY CONSERVATIVE GROUP. AND OBAMA I THOUGHT ADDRESSED THAT DIRECTLY BY SAYING THAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY NEEDS TO GET BEYOND THAT AND START DEALING WITH SOME ISSUES LIKE THAT. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY INTERESTING TWIST ON HIS PART.

Borg: IN THE OVERALL -- THIS DEBATE TONIGHT CAME FROM WASHINGTON, D.C. THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ONE IN THE FALL WITH THE REPUBLICANS, I'LL TALK ABOUT AS WE CLOSE THIS PROGRAM, IN LATE SEPTEMBER. WE HAVEN'T HAD A NATIONALLY TELEVISED DEBATE FROM IOWA YET, AND YET THIS IS THE FIRST-IN-THE-NATION INDICATION, THE PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCES, WHENEVER THAT DATE WILL BE. WE DON'T QUITE KNOW YET. WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE DEBATES BEING STAGED AROUND THE COUNTRY? IS IT NOW THE COMPRESSED PRIMARY AND CAUCUS SCHEDULE?

Glover: IT'S A DIFFERENT YEAR, DEAN. IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT YEAR THAN IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST. I REMEMBER IN THE 1987 AND 1988 ELECTION CYCLE, WE ALL WROTE STORIES ABOUT DICK GEPHARDT WHO MOVED TO IOWA; RENTED AN APARTMENT IN IOWA; LIVED IN IOWA; MOVED HIS MOTHER HERE, FOD GOD SAKES, AND SHE LIVED HERE; AND EVERYBODY JUST CAME TO IOWA AND CAMPED OUT. WELL, YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN THIS CYCLE BECAUSE HALF THE NATION IS GOING TO VOTE WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF IOWA, MAYBE, DEPENDING ON, AS YOU MENTIONED, WHEN IOWA DECIDES TO VOTE. BUT THE CAMPAIGN SCHEDULE IS VERY COMPRESSED. CANDIDATES HAVE GOT TO BE IN A LOT OF PLACES. AND A LOT OF OTHER STATES WHO HAVE MOVED THEIR PRIMARIES UP EARLIER ARE BEING VERY AGGRESSIVE ABOUT TRYING TO GRAB A LITTLE SLICE OF THIS LIMELIGHT. AND FRANKLY, PEOPLE IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE WERE A LITTLE SLOW TO REACT ON THAT.

Borg: WELL, AND SOME OF THE NATIONAL GROUPS HAVE BEEN QUICK TO REACT TO IT, APPARENTLY, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A DEBATE ON SOUTH CAROLINA AND THEY'VE BEEN OUT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, A COUPLE OF THEM.

Henderson: THERE WILL BE A DEBATE IN DES MOINES IN AUGUST.

Borg: YES. I MEAN, THEY'RE COMING.

Henderson: RIGHT. BACK TO THE '87-'88 CYCLE, THE FIRST DEBATE IN IOWA WAS IN AUGUST AND IT WAS HELD AT THE STATE FAIR. I DON'T THINK IT'S -- I DON'T THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT AT ALL WHERE THESE DEBATES ARE OCCURRING. THE FACT THAT THEY ARE OCCURRING AS OFTEN AS THEY ARE I THINK IS SIGNIFICANT, BECAUSE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, I THINK IT WAS, YOU HAD A COUPLE OF THE CAMPAIGNS, THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN AND THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN, REALLY TRYING TO GET THE PARTY LEADERS TO SIGNIFY WHICH DEBATES WILL HAPPEN AND WHEN, SO WE AREN'T DEBATING SO OFTEN. AND THAT REALLY SHOWS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO GET OUT THERE IN THESE FORUMS AS OFTEN AS THEY MIGHT BE PRESSURED TO BECAUSE OF THE CALENDAR, BECAUSE THOSE 25 STATES BY FEBRUARY 5 WILL HAVE HAD A CONTEST.

Glover: I THINK WE'RE AT A SHAKEDOWN POINT IN THIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN BECAUSE SATURDAY NIGHT IS THE DEADLINE FOR THE NEXT QUARTERLY FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REPORT. I THINK THAT FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REPORT WILL FORCE CANDIDATES FROM THIS RACE. I THINK THERE ARE CANDIDATES WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE, GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF MONEY I SUSPECT THAT BARACK OBAMA AND HILLARY CLINTON ARE GOING TO REPORT THAT THEY'VE RAISED IN THIS QUARTER.

Borg: WELL, ARE YOU SAYING, MIKE --

Glover: BY THE TIME THE FIRST IOWA DEBATE IS HELD, THERE MAY BE CANDIDATES FORCED OUT OF THE RACE.

Borg: BUT WHEN THOSE FINANCIAL REPORTS ARE RELEASED, THAT JUST THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT MAYBE THE TOP TIER HAS WILL FORCE PEOPLE OUT?

Glover: SURE.

Borg: THAT IS, EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE AND THEY KNOW THEY CAN CONTINUE, IF THEY LOOK AT A MONUMENTAL AMOUNT, IN THE TOP TIER THEY'RE SAYING IT AIN'T WORTH IT?

Glover: WELL, IT'S MORE THAN THAT. IT'S -- IF YOU'VE GOT A TOP-TIER OF CANDIDATES -- EDWARDS, OBAMA, AND CLINTON -- RAISING REALLY GARGANTUAN SUMS OF MONEY, AT SOME POINT IF I'M IN THAT BOTTOM TIER -- I'M A JOE BIDEN, I'M A CHRIS DODD, A DENNIS KUCINICH, WHATEVER -- YOU'VE GOT TO GO TO YOUR DONOR BASE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE AND SAY, 'LOOK, BARACK OBAMA HAS GOT $50 MILLION, OR WHATEVER HE'S GOT, AND I'VE GOT 4, SO YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE ME SOME MORE MONEY,' AND HAVE YOUR, YOU KNOW, DONORS LOOK AT YOU LIKE YOU HAVE THREE HEADS. AT SOME POINT IT JUST BECOMES APPARENT IT'S NOT WORKING.

Borg: CHARLOTTE, COMING UP NOW WE'VE GOT THE FOURTH OF JULY HOLIDAY COMING NEXT WEEK THAT WE HAVE A BARRAGE OF CAMPAIGNS MOVING INTO IOWA DURING THAT PERIOD. JUST TRACE FOR ME SOME THAT YOU KNOW THAT YOU'LL BE COVERING AND OTHERS THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT.

Eby: BILL CLINTON IS COMING IN FOR HILLARY CLINTON, WHICH IS THE BIG EVENT NEXT WEEK. YOU COULD HEAR KIND OF A COLLECTIVE GROAN FROM ALL THE REST OF THE DEMOCRATS AND THE CAMPAIGNS WHEN THEY HEARD THAT HE WAS COMING. THEY KNOW HE'S GOING TO SUCK THE NEWS CYCLE FOR THREE DAYS AND, YOU KNOW, OVERSHADOW JOE BIDEN'S TRIP HERE, CHRIS DODD'S TRIP HERE. SO HE'LL BE THE NEWS NEXT WEEK. THE CAMPAIGN SAYS HE'LL BE FILLING IN THE BIOGRAPHY OF HILLARY CLINTON, THE HILLARY CLINTON THAT WE DON'T KNOW. SHE LIKES TO SAY SHE'S THE MOST FAMOUS PERSON THAT NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT, SO HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE KIND OF THE PERSON TELLING US THE REST OF THE STORY.

Glover: AND I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE ONE TOP-TIER CANDIDATE WHO DECIDED TO COME OUT WHILE BILL CLINTON WAS HERE IS BARACK OBAMA. OBAMA -- CLINTON IS HERE -- BILL CLINTON IS HERE MONDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY OF NEXT WEEK. OBAMA IS HERE BOTH TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY OF NEXT WEEK IN A VERY DIRECT CHALLENGE TO THAT. HE WANTS A SLICE OF THAT PIE TOO.

Borg: AND IN THE SAME SOUTHEAST IOWA AREA, WITHIN ABOUT 20, 30 MILES OF EACH OTHER.

Glover: AND THAT'S ABOUT THE THIRD TIME THEY'VE DONE THAT. BARACK OBAMA PEOPLE ARE NOT AFRAID OF THE CLINTON MACHINE. THEY'RE WILLING TO CHALLENGE THE CLINTON MACHINE ON ITS OWN TERMS, ON ITS OWN TURF. I THINK IT'S A VERY INTERESTING SORT OF A -- IT'S ALMOST A SYMBOLIC THING. WHEREAS, EDWARDS IS STAYING AWAY. THE BOTTOM-TIER CANDIDATES -- BUT BARACK OBAMA IS SAYING, 'OKAY, I KNOW BILL CLINTON IS HERE AND BILL CLINTON HAS THE TENDENCY TO SUCK ALL THE OXYGEN OUT OF A ROOM. HE'S HERE WILL HILLARY. IT'S GOING TO BE THE BIG NEWS STORY OF THE DAY, BUT WE'RE HERE TOO. SEE HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT WE CAN HAVE.' AND I BET HE WILL. IN FACT, I'LL BET HE'LL FIND A WAY TO MAKE NEWS AND TRY TO OVERSHADOW CLINTON.

Dorman: AND HE'LL HAVE GOOD NEWS BECAUSE ALL SIGNS ARE THAT WHEN THE FINANCIAL REPORTS COME OUT THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE RAISED MORE MONEY THAN HILLARY CLINTON. AND HE'S GOT OVER -- YOU KNOW, MORE THAN 250,000 PEOPLE HAVE DONATED TO HIS CAMPAIGN, WHICH IS A PRETTY SIZABLE NUMBER OF DONORS. SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING TO IOWA NEXT WEEK IN A POSITION OF STRENGTH. OBVIOUSLY HILLARY CLINTON IS COMING WITH HER SECRET WEAPON OR NOT-SO-SECRET WEAPON, AND IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING. MAYBE THE BUSES WILL BE ON THE SAME STRETCH OF INTERSTATE, AND MAYBE THEY CAN DRAG RACE OR SOMETHING.

Glover: I'LL MAKE A PREDICTION RIGHT NOW. WHILE BIG CLINTON IS IN THIS STATE, BARACK OBAMA WILL LEAK HIS MONEY RAISING. AND THAT WILL OVERSHADOW BILL CLINTON BEING HERE BECAUSE HE'LL RAISE MORE MONEY THAN HILLARY.

Borg: HE WILL LEAK -- IN OTHER WORDS --

Glover: WHILE BILL CLINTON AND HILLARY ARE RUNNING AROUND THE STATE, HE'S GOING TO LEAK TO THE PRESS --

Dorman: THEY'LL HOLD ON TILL THE RIGHT MOMENT, YEAH.

Glover: THEY'LL HOLD ON TILL EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT, AND THEN HE'LL LEAK, 'BY THE WAY, I RAISED MORE MONEY THAN HILLARY THIS QUARTER.'

Borg: LAST WORD, KAY. YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING?

Henderson: NO. [ LAUGHTER ]

Borg: THEN WE'RE GOING TO WRAP UP. THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS. I KNOW THAT EACH OF YOU ARE GOING TO BE OUT DURING THAT FOURTH OF JULY INTENSE CAMPAIGNING HERE IN IOWA, AND WE'LL WAIT TO GET YOU BACK AROUND THE TABLE AND RECONVENE. THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHTS TONIGHT. WE CLOSE WITH A PROGRAM REMINDER: TAVIS SMILEY CONTINUES HIS 'ALL-AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL FORUMS' THIS FALL. AS I ALLUDED TO EARLIER, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES HAVING THEIR SAY ON THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 27. THAT WILL AGAIN BE LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., AT 8:00 THAT LAST THURSDAY IN SEPTEMBER. NOW, ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS' -- THAT'S TOMORROW NIGHT AT 7:30 -- BACK ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH REPUBLICAN CONTENDER TOMMY THOMPSON. HE'S A FORMER GOVERNOR OF WISCONSIN, ALSO A FORMER SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IN THE CURRENT BUSH ADMINISTRATION. YOU'LL SEE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TOMMY THOMPSON AT THE USUAL 'IOWA PRESS' AIRTIMES: THAT'S 7:30 FRIDAY NIGHT; 11:30 SUNDAY MORNING. I'M DEAN BORG. ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE AROUND THIS TABLE, THANKS FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

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