Iowa Public Television

 

New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson

posted on July 20, 2007

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Yepsen: POLITICAL OBSERVERS ARE WATCHING THE SHIFTS IN MOMENTUM IN THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, AND THEY SEE BILL RICHARDSON STEPPING INTO THE SPOTLIGHT. WE DISCUSS THE CAMPAIGN OF 2008 WITH DEMOCRATIC CONTENDER BILL RICHARDSON, THE GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO, ON THIS EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.'

FUNDING FOR 'IOWA PRESS' WAS PROVIDED BY 'FRIENDS,' THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, JULY 20 EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.' HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen: POSITIVE TREND LINES ARE THE THINGS THAT CAN ENERGIZE A CANDIDATE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. ACCORDING TO THE LATEST NUMBERS, NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON, HIS SUPPORTERS AND STAFF HAVE GOOD REASON TO BE PLEASED. THE GOVERNOR IS ONE SECOND-TIER CANDIDATE SHOWING UPWARD MOTION IN THE NATIONAL AND EARLY STATE POLLS. ADDITIONALLY, RICHARDSON'S SECOND QUARTER FUND-RAISING SHOWS BETTER THAN TWICE THE AMOUNT RAISED BY HIS NEAREST SECOND-TIER COMPETITOR. IN SERIOUS POLITICAL CONVERSATION, IT'S CALLED MOMENTUM. GOVERNOR RICHARDSON, WELCOME BACK TO 'IOWA PRESS.' IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

Richardson: THANK, DAVID. IT'S NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

Yepsen: ALSO JOINING US HERE AT THE 'IOWA PRESS' TABLE IS: KAY HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR WITH 'RADIO IOWA'; AND MIKE GLOVER, SENIOR POLITICAL AND LEGISLATIVE REPORTER WITH THE 'ASSOCIATED PRESS.'

Glover: GOVERNOR, AS DAVE MENTIONED, MOST OF THE POLLS HAVE SHOWN YOU MOVING UP A LITTLE BIT, MAYBE EVEN BREAKING OUT OF THE SECOND TIER. I SAW ONE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THAT SAW YOU GETTING PAST JOHN EDWARDS. WHAT'S BEHIND ALL THAT? IS IT JUST YOUR TELEVISION? IS IT YOUR MESSAGE? IS IT GETTING ACQUAINTED WITH VOTERS?

Richardson: IT'S ALL THREE, MIKE. THE TELEVISION AD, WHICH IS HUMOROUS WHICH IS BASICALLY DON'T TAKE POLITICIANS SO SERIOUSLY, IS CATCHING ON BECAUSE IT GETS MY EXPERIENCE OUT, WHICH I'M TRYING TO. SECONDLY, I'M OUT WORKING EVERYBODY. RETAIL POLITICS, TOWN MEETINGS, MEETING VOTERS IN PARADES AND FAIRS. AND THEN THIRDLY, THE MESSAGE OF EXPERIENCE AND CHANGE. I BELIEVE I BRING CHANGE. I BRING EXPERIENCE. I'VE GOT A POSITIVE MESSAGE OF BRINGING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER. BUT I'M OUT WORKING EVERYBODY AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT'S MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

Glover: HOW DO YOU BALANCE THOSE TWO TRAITS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT? ONE IS EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS YOU'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE, AND THE OTHER IS CHANGE, WHICH IS DO THINGS DIFFERENT?

Richardson: THAT'S RIGHT. YOU KNOW, I RUN A STATE NOW. I BALANCE BUDGETS. I LEFT WASHINGTON, D.C., WHERE I WAS A CONGRESSMAN, I WAS U.N. AMBASSADOR, I WAS SECRETARY OF ENERGY, EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE, AND NOW EXPERIENCED RUNNING A STATE, BALANCING BUDGETS, INCREASING ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, THE FIFTH FASTEST GROWING ECONOMY IN COUNTRY. YOU KNOW, THIS COUNTRY, MIKE, HAS ELECTED GOVERNORS. SEVEN OUT OF THE LAST EIGHT PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN EITHER A GOVERNOR OR AN EX-GOVERNOR. WE DIDN'T DO TOO GOOD IN THE LAST ONE. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SEE THE EXPERIENCE BUT, ALSO, I KNOW HOW TO GET THINGS DONE, BE BIPARTISAN, GET LEGISLATION PASSED, BRING COUNTRIES TOGETHER, RESCUE HOSTAGES. A LOT OF THAT IS COMING THROUGH.

Henderson: WELL, GOVERNOR, THIS PAST WEEK IN IOWA, YOU DECLARED THAT YOU COULD WIN THIRD PLACE IN IOWA'S CAUCUSES. WHICH OF THE PERCEIVED TOP-TIER CANDIDATES -- EDWARDS, CLINTON, OBAMA -- DO YOU DISPLACE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL?

Richardson: WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I EXACTLY SAID THAT. I SAID I WANTED TO DO WELL IN IOWA. I DIDN'T KIND OF PUT MYSELF THERE. MAYBE THERE WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION. BUT I'VE GOT TO DO WELL HERE. THIS IS THE BAROMETER STATE. IT'S THE FIRST ONE. IN FACT, IOWA IS NOW MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER STATES ARE TRYING TO MOVE UP TO FEBRUARY 5. SO I'VE GOT TO DO WELL. NOW, IT DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO WIN, BUT I HAVE TO SHOW ENORMOUS GRASS-ROOTS SUPPORT. WE'RE DOING THAT. OUR MESSAGE IS GETTING OUT. WE'RE GOING TO EVERY LITTLE TOWN THAT NO ONE HAS EVER VISITED, AND I'M GETTING GOOD RESPONSE.

Glover: AND LET'S PUT A NUMBER ON IT. KAY SUGGESTED IN THE PREMISE OF HER QUESTION THAT YOU NEED TO FINISH THIRD HERE. WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO? YOU SAY YOU NEED TO DO WELL. PUT A NUMBER ON IT.

Richardson: WELL, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, MIKE. I'VE GOT TO BEAT SOMEBODY THAT IS PROMINENT.

Glover: SO YOU'VE GOT TO BEAT ONE OF THE BIG THREE.

Richardson: WELL, I WANT TO -- YEAH, MAYBE WE CAN BEAT TWO OF THEM. WHO KNOWS. YOU KNOW, I'M MOVING. AS YOU MENTIONED, I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT'S GOING UP AND MY ORGANIZATION IS STRONG. I DON'T GO FOR BIG-NAME ENDORSEMENTS. I GO FOR VOTERS. I GO FOR CAUCUS GOERS. YOU KNOW, I WILL GO ANYWHERE TO MEET A VOTER AND BE SCRUTINIZED, LAY OUT MY PLAN. YOU KNOW, JUST IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, I'VE BEEN IN EVERY LITTLE TOWN -- MARSHALLTOWN, NEWTON, DES MOINES. THAT'S NOT A LITTLE TOWN. [ LAUGHTER ]

Yepsen: BUT IT'S ON YOUR LIST THERE.

Richardson: YOU KNOW, PERRY, WEST DES MOINES, MADISON COUNTY. MAYBE I'LL MEET CLINT EASTWOOD THERE. FIELD OF DREAMS -- I WAS WITH KEVIN COSTNER -- I'M KIDDING.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, A MORE SERIOUS QUESTION. A LOT OF CAUCUS GOERS ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY WHO CAN WIN. THEY TELL ME THEY LIKE ALL THE CANDIDATES THAT THEY SEE. THEY WANT SOMEBODY WHO IS ELECTABLE, SO ADDRESS THAT QUESTION FOR ME. HOW IS IT YOU ARE THE BEST DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE TO GET TO 270 ELECTORAL VOTES?

Richardson: WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, THIS COUNTRY ELECTS GOVERNORS. I'M A GOVERNOR. THEY WANT CEOs. I'M FROM THE SOUTHWEST. I WOULD BRING SEVERAL STATES. I WOULD ADD REAL ESTATE TO THE DEMOCRATIC COLUMN -- ARIZONA, COLORADO -- STATES THAT HAD JOHN KERRY CARRIED, HE'D BE PRESIDENT. I'VE GOT FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE. I'M, I GUESS, CLASSIFIED AS A MODERATE IN TERMS OF NATIONAL TREND LINES. I AM SOMEBODY THAT I BELIEVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY -- OHIO, FLORIDA -- BEING HISPANIC I BELIEVE IS GOING TO BE A PLUS. BUT IT'S MAINLY MY EXPERIENCE AND IT'S MAINLY THE FACT THAT THIS COUNTRY WANTS TWO THINGS. THEY WANT CHANGE AND THEY KNOW I CAN BRING CHANGE. THEY WANT EXPERIENCE AND THEN ELECTABILITY. WE CAN'T KEEP NOMINATING CANDIDATES JUST FROM THE NORTHEAST. YOU KNOW, THE LAST SENATOR THAT WAS ELECTED WAS FORTY YEARS AGO. HE WAS VERY SPECIAL. HIS NAME WAS JOHN F. KENNEDY. BUT WE HAVEN'T ELECTED ANY SINCE.

Yepsen: SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT, IS THAT A SHOT AT OBAMA AND CLINTON?

Richardson: , NO, IT'S JUST A REALITY. IT'S JUST A STATISTIC. SEVEN OUT OF THE LAST EIGHT PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN EITHER A GOVERNOR OR AN EX-GOVERNOR. AND ALSO THE EXPERIENCE -- I'VE NEGOTIATED WITH FOREIGN COUNTRIES. I'VE REPRESENTED THE UNITED STATES. I KNOW HOW TO MAKE AMERICA ENERGY INDEPENDENT WITH AN APOLLO PROGRAM, TO GO TO RENEWABLE FUELS AND RENEWABLE TECHNOLOGY. I'VE MANAGED THE STATE. I'VE BALANCED BUDGETS. I'VE BROUGHT HEALTH CARE TO KIDS UNDER FIVE. PEOPLE WANT TO SEE RESULTS. THEY WANT TO SEE SOMEBODY THAT CAN GET REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER. WE NEED TO HEAL AS A COUNTRY.

Glover: GOVERNOR, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO ON THIS PROGRAM IS TALK A LOT ABOUT POLITICS, AND I'D LIKE TO GET YOU TO DO ANOTHER LITTLE HANDICAP, IF I COULD, OF THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD. DAVE MENTIONED IN HIS OPEN THAT MOST OF THE POLLS HAVE SHOWN YOU KIND OF ON AN UP TICK. MOST OF THOSE SAME POLLS HAVE SHOWN JOHN EDWARDS ON KIND OF A DOWN TICK. AS I MENTIONED IN ONE QUESTION, ONE POLL SHOWS YOU GETTING PAST HIM IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. WHAT'S WRONG WITH HIS CAMPAIGN? HAS HIS TIME COME AND GONE? WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

Richardson: YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I ALSO SAID, MIKE, I'M NOT GOING TO GET NEGATIVE. IN FACT, ONLY JOE BIDEN AGREED TO SIGN A PLEDGE WITH ME THAT WE DON'T GET NEGATIVE IN THE PRIMARIES. THIS WAS THE ESSENCE OF MY TV AD: LET'S STAY POSITIVE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK SENATOR EDWARDS, HE'S A VERY SEASONED CANDIDATE, BUT HE'S NO LONGER A NEW FACE. YOU KNOW, HE'S BEEN AROUND AND HIS MESSAGE IS OUT THERE. I THINK THE PUBLIC IS LOOKING FOR CANDIDATES THAT HAVE ELECTABILITY. I'M NOT SAYING HE DOESN'T, BUT IT'S HOW YOU PROVE YOURSELF TODAY. AND THE REASON I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING UP IS BECAUSE OF OUR INTENSIVE GRASS-ROOTS RETAIL POLITICS, AND I'M PUTTING OUT PROGRAMS ON FOREIGN POLICY, ON GETTING OUT OF IRAQ. YOU KNOW, OUR KIDS ARE DYING THERE NEEDLESSLY IN A WAR THAT IS FAILING MISERABLY. AND I'M VERY CLEAR ABOUT MY POSITIONS ON ENERGY, ON HEALTH CARE. PEOPLE WANT THAT. THEY WANT TO SEE NOT JUST WHAT YOUR POLICIES ARE, BUT THEY WANT TO LOOK INSIDE YOU. THIS IS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IOWA VOTERS. THEY SCRUTINIZE YOU IN THOSE LIVING ROOMS. THEY WANT TO FEEL YOUR PASSION, AND THEY WANT TO TOUCH YOU AND SEE IF YOU'RE REAL. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHY I'M MOVING UP. >>

Glover: AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED ABOUT SENATOR EDWARDS IS THAT HE'S BEEN THERE BEFORE, HE'S DONE THIS BEFORE. A DEBATE THAT'S GOING ON INSIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, PARTICULARLY BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON AND BARACK OBAMA, IS IS THE PARTY LOOKING FORWARD OR LOOKING BACKWARD. WHAT SIDE OF THAT DIVIDE DO YOU FALL ON?

Richardson: WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FORWARD. YOU KNOW, SOLUTIONS ARE NOT WHAT'S THE BEST SOLUTION ON THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT. IT'S HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD, HOW QUESTION BUILD BRIDGES, HOW WE CAN GET REPUBLICANS. YOU KNOW THE CONGRESS TODAY IS TOTAL THE DYSFUNCTIONAL, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESIDENT. THEY GET NOTHING DONE. IMMIGRATION, IRAQ, ALL THEY DO IS FIGHT. I THINK THE PUBLIC WANTS SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO STEP FORWARD AND SAY THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING RESOLVE THIS BUT ACTUALLY DO IT. AND I'M IN THE DEBATE THAT SAYS THE PARTY NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD, WE NEED TO BE A PRO GROWTH PARTY THAT DEALS WITH PROBLEMS, WE NEED TO RESOLVE OUR INTERNATIONAL CONFLICTS WITH A NEW FOREIGN POLICY.

Henderson: THERE ARE NOW MORE LATINO IOWANS THAN THERE ARE IOWANS WHO EARN A FULL-TIME LIVING AT FARMING. IS THAT A VIABLE VOTING BLOCK FOR A CANDIDATE SUCH AS YOURSELF IN IOWA, OR WILL THEY TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE IOWA CAUCUSES SINCE THEY HAVEN'T HERETOFORE HAD A HISTORY OF VOTING?

Richardson: WELL, KAY, YOU KNOW, IN A CLOSE ELECTION, THEY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. BUT I'M NOT RUNNING AS A LATINO CANDIDATE.

Henderson: BUT YOU'VE HAD EVENTS AT WHICH YOU'VE INVITED --

Richardson: OH, ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. I WANT TO GET ALL OF THEM TO SUPPORT ME. THEY DON'T KNOW I'M LATINO WITH THIS NAME, RICHARDSON, SO I'VE GOT WORK TODAY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YES, THEY COULD START MAKING A DIFFERENCE. I URGE THEM, I SAY, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU VOTE FOR, REGISTER, VOTE, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES THAT AFFECT YOU THAT IF YOU STEP OUTSIDE AND NOT PARTICIPATE, IT'S GOING TO HURT YOU. BUT, YEAH, I'M TRYING TO ORGANIZE THEM, BUT I'M ALSO TRYING TO APPEAL TO ALL IOWA VOTERS. I'M NOT A WEDGE CANDIDATE. I'M NOT A LATINO CANDIDATE. I'M AN AMERICAN GOVERNOR WANTING TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY, GETTING BROAD-BASE SUPPORT. I'M A MAINSTREAM CANDIDATE.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, GIVE ME YOUR OBSERVATION ABOUT LATINOS IN IOWA. WE'VE NOT SEEN GREAT LEVELS OF PARTICIPATION IN THE PAST. DO YOU HAVE A SENSE THAT THEY'RE READY TO START PARTICIPATING MORE, TO VOTE IN PRIMARIES, TO TURN OUT IN CAUCUSES? WHAT'S JUST YOUR SENSE OF THE LATINO COMMUNITY HERE IN IOWA?

Richardson: I'VE MET A LOT OF LATINOS ALL OVER, YOU KNOW, QUAD CITIES AREA, HERE IN DES MOINES. THEY ARE READY TO PARTICIPATE. THEY ARE GROWING. THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE AMERICAN DREAM. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PUT IN A BOX SAYING WE ONLY CARE ABOUT IMMIGRATION, WE ONLY CARE ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS. LATINOS CARE ABOUT JOBS AND EDUCATION AND IRAQ, AND THEY'RE STARTING TO ORGANIZATION. MAYBE I'LL BE A CATALYST FOR THEM TO TURN OUT. BUT THEY WANT TO BE, DAVID, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. THEY WORRY ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION DEBATE. YOU KNOW, THE POLITICS OF FEAR THAT CANDIDATES ARE THROWING OUT: BUILD A FENCE; DEPORT PEOPLE. I THINK THEY ARE READY TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR A FAIR AND LEGAL IMMIGRATION PLAN.

Yepsen: HAS THAT IMMIGRATION DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY TURNED LATINOS INTO DEMOCRATS? I MEAN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY 150 YEARS AGO DROVE THE IRISH INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: NO IRISH NEED APPLY. IS THE SAME THING HAPPENING WITH THE DEBATE OVER IMMIGRATION WHERE LATINOS ARE STARTING TO SHIFT INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

Richardson: YES. THEY ALWAYS WERE PRIMARILY DEMOCRATS, DAVID, MAYBE TWO TO ONE, BUT NOW PRESIDENT BUSH HAD ACTUALLY MADE IN ROADS WITH THE LATINO VOTE. HE GOT CLOSE TO 40 PERCENT, AND IT MADE A DIFFERENCE IN THE ELECTION WITH KERRY. I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING AT THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE AND FINDING THEMSELVES APPEARING TO LATINOS AS INTOLERANT -- SEND THEM BACK, BUILD A FENCE -- RATHER THAN -- YOU KNOW, I'M PRAISING JOHN MCCAIN. JOHN MCCAIN AND TED KENNEDY CAME UP WITH A LEGAL IMMIGRATION -- AN EARNED LEGALIZATION PLAN, NOT AN AMNESTY, AND IT'S HURTING JOHN MCCAIN. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? GOOD FOR HIM. HE DID THE RIGHT THING. I KNOW I'M NOT PROBABLY HELPING HIM WITH THESE REMARKS, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD DO. WHEN THINGS ARE NOT POPULAR, YOU KNOW, TAKE PRINCIPLE STANCE, DO THE RIGHT THING.

Glover: GOVERNOR, LET'S TAKE THAT ISSUE NATIONALLY, IF WE COULD. IT'S NOT HARD HARD FOR YOU TO DRAW A DISTINCTION BETWEEN YOU AND YOURSELF AND MOST REPUBLICANS ON THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE. HOW DO YOU DRAW A DISTINCTION BETWEEN YOURSELF AND THE OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ON THE ISSUE, BECAUSE MOST DEMOCRATS FALL ROUGHLY INTO THE FIELD WHERE YOU ARE?

Richardson: WELL, I'VE DONE IT, MIKE. I'M A BORDER STATE GOVERNOR, AND TWO YEARS AGO I DECLARED A BORDER EMERGENCY BECAUSE THE FLOW OF PEOPLE COMING IN WAS HURTING MY CONSTITUENTS. SO I DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION EVERY DAY, IN CONTRAST TO OTHERS THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, 'THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO.' AND WHAT I SAY IS YOU'VE GOT TO SECURE THE BORDER, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. MORE BORDER PATROL AGENCY. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH MEXICO. AT LEAST TELL THEM TO STOP GIVING MAPS TO THEIR PEOPLE OF THE EASIEST PLACE TO CROSS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE EMPLOYER SANCTIONS, AND THAT IS ANYBODY THAT KNOWINGLY HIRES AN ILLEGAL WORKER NEEDS TO BE PUNISHED. AND THEN AN EARNED LEGALIZATION, NOT AMNESTY, BUT IF YOU PAY BACK TAXES, YOU PASS A BACKGROUND CHECK, YOU LEARN ENGLISH, YOU DON'T TAKE A JOB AN AMERICAN HAS, YOU EMBRACE AMERICAN VALUES, YOU GET BEHIND THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO GET HERE ILLEGALLY, I BELIEVE THAT'S A RATIONAL POLICY. IT'S NOT PERFECT. IT'S NOT -- IS IT GOING TO CAUSE MORE BUREAUCRACY, YES. BUT LET'S BE REALISTIC AND DEAL WITH THE VERY DIVISIVE ISSUE THAT THE CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT HAVE SAID, OH, IT'S TOO TOUGH TO HANDLE, LET'S PUT ASIDE. THAT'S NOT GOOD.

Glover: BUT REALISTICALLY, MOST OF THE OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES HAVE THE SAME POSITION.

Richardson: YEAH, BUT I'VE DEALT WITH IT DIRECTLY. AND ACTUALLY THERE'S SOME DEMOCRATS THAT DON'T WANT TO FACE THIS, THAT HAVE NOT BEEN NECESSARILY SUPPORTIVE OF THE EARNED LEGALIZATION.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WE WANT TO TURN TO SOME OF THE SPECIFIC ISSUES IN THE CAMPAIGN --

Richardson: SURE.

Yepsen: WE'LL START WITH IRAQ. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, BUT A PART OF THIS QUESTION IS WHAT -- YOU'RE A FORMER DIPLOMAT. WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF WHAT THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL HAVE TO DO TO RESTORE AMERICA'S STANDING IN THE WORLD?

Richardson: GETTING OUT OF IRAQ IS GOING TO BE A KEY INITIATIVE IN ORDER TO RESTORE OUR RESPECT AROUND THE WORLD. AND THEN WE CONCENTRATE ON BUILDING INTERNATIONAL COALITIONS TO DEAL WITH TERRORISM, TO DEAL WITH NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION, A DIRTY BOMB COMING ACROSS THE BORDER, GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. BUT IT'S ALSO A MESSAGE, DAVID, THAT AMERICA IS READY TO REJOIN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, THAT WE'RE GOING TO RESPECT THE UNITED NATIONS, THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE PART OF NATO, THAT WE'RE GOING TO SHUT DOWN GUANTANAMO, THAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO RESTORE OUR RIGHTS IN THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS, THAT WE'RE GOING TO REJOIN THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT, THAT WE'RE GOING TO CARE ABOUT THE AFRICAS OF THE WORLD, THAT WE'RE GOING TO CARE ABOUT THE THIRD WORLD AND POVERTY AND AIDS AND REFUGEES AND THE DARFUR GENOCIDE, THAT WE DON'T JUST CARE ABOUT OIL, WE DON'T JUST CARE ABOUT STRATEGIC INTERESTS, THAT WE CARE ABOUT HUMANITARIAN AND DEMOCRATIC INTERESTS. BUT A KEY STEP THERE IS GETTING OUT OF IRAQ WITH A DIPLOMATIC PLAN, ONE THAT SAYS TO THE WORLD, WE ARE READY TO REJOIN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. WE WILL TALK TO OUR ENEMIES LIKE NORTH KOREA, LIKE SYRIA, LIKE IRAN, AND TRY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER INSTEAD OF USING A POLICY OF MILITARY ACTION AND PREEMPTION.

Henderson: YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE AFRICAN CONTINENT AND AMERICA'S FOREIGN POLICY IN REGARDS TO COUNTRIES THERE. DO YOU SENSE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS TRULY INTERESTED IN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT?

Richardson: YES, IF YOU EXPLAIN IT, KAY, THAT THE UNITED STATES SHOULD BE AGAINST GENOCIDE, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN AMERICA WITH ENORMOUS TIES TO AFRICA, THAT AFRICA IS ALSO PART FORTUNATE WORLD, THAT WE SHOULD CARE ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE ENORMOUS HUMANITARIAN PROBLEMS: AIDS, CLOSE TO 20 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION; POVERTY; REFUGEES. BUT IT'S ALSO, I BELIEVE, AMERICA'S MORAL LEADERSHIP IN SAYING THAT GENOCIDES LIKE WE TOLERATED IN RWANDA ARE UNACCEPTABLE. AND WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT IF WE HAVE POLICIES IN THE THIRD WORLD THAT APPEAR THAT AMERICA WANTS TO HELP, WANTS TO BE PART OF A SOLUTION, WANTS TO BRING RENEWABLE ENERGY, WANT TO ASSOCIATE ITSELF DEMOCRATIC POPULIST MOVEMENTS, WANTS TO DEAL WITH DEBT RELIEF AND GETTING SO MANY MILLIONS OUT OF POVERTY THAT THAT ENHANCES OUR ABILITY TO GET INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT FROM AFRICA, ASIA, AND LATIN AMERICA FOR OUR GOALS.

Henderson: HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH THE SENSE THAT FOR THOSE OF US WHO COVER EVENTS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THAT DEMOCRATS WANT TO WITHDRAW FROM IRAQ AND NOT HAVE THE U.S. BE THE WORLD'S POLICEMAN, AND HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH, THEN, U.S. INTERVENTION IN COUNTRIES AND AFRICA?

Richardson: WELL, I'M NOT ADVOCATING WE BECOME THE WORLD'S POLICEMAN. I'M ADVOCATING THAT WE BECOME THE WORLD'S MORAL AND POLITICAL LEADER AGAIN BECAUSE, NORMALLY, KAY, NATIONS LOOK TO US TO LEAD. AND I'M NOT ABDICATING THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE INTERVENE EVERYTHING. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A SET OF THE PRINCIPLES. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS IT'S MILITARY INTERVENTION OR PREEMPTION. IT'S NOT BUILDING INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT. IT'S NOT BEING PART OF THE UNITED NATIONS. IT'S NOT, FOR INSTANCE, LEANING ON GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. WE NEED TO GET CHINA AND INDIA AND THE THIRD WORLD TO REDUCE POLLUTION ON THE PLANET BECAUSE THE PLANET IS BASICALLY SAYING TO US THAT MAN-MADE POLLUTION AND FOSSIL FUELS IS DAMAGING IT. SO FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY, FOR PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT, WE NEED TO GET INTERPRET SUPPORT FOR THESE INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT FOR THESE GOALS. SO IT'S SIMPLE REJOINING THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND SAYING WE'RE GOING TO BE PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM WHERE WE COOPERATE AND NOT SAY IT'S EITHER OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

Yepsen: YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN FOREIGN POLICY. YOU TALK ABOUT BEING AN AMBASSADOR OF THE UNITED NATIONS. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY, HISTORY WILL TEACH THAT FOREIGN POLICY AT THE END OF THE DAY DOESN'T MATTER IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, THAT VOTERS AT THE END OF THE DAY CAST THEIR BALLOTS ON DOMESTIC ISSUES. HOW DO YOU COUNTER THAT?

Richardson: THIS IS AN UNUSUAL YEAR, MIKE. IRAQ IS THE DOMINANT ISSUE, EVERYWHERE YOU GO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, IOWA, ANY STATE. AND IT'S ABOUT AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP IN THE WORLD BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT A POLICY THAT IS FAILING MISERABLY AND KIDS ARE DYING. IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FEELING AN OUTRAGE THAT I FEEL WHEN OUR LEADERS SAY, OH, WE'RE GOING TO NOW NEED TO HAVE TILL NOVEMBER TILL WE DETERMINE WHETHER THE SURGE IS GOING TO WORK. WELL, THAT COULD BE -- YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED OF OUR KIDS ARE DYING EVERY MONTH, AND FOR A POLICY THAT'S NOT WORKING AND WASHINGTON NOT LISTENING, I'M KIND OF OUTRAGED. AND AT THE SAME TIME, HEALTH CARE OBVIOUSLY. IMMIGRATION IS A BIG ISSUE. RENEWABLE ENERGY, BECOMING ENERGY INDEPENDENT. IN THE END, I BELIEVE THIS MAY BE AN UNUSUAL YEAR, MIKE, WHERE IRAQ DOMINATES WITH HEALTH CARE AS A HUGE MORAL IMPERATIVE. THAT'S A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, HEALTH CARE, THAT WE NEED TO RESOLVE.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, I MENTIONED EARLIER YOUR YOUR DIPLOMATIC EXPERIENCE. SOME OF THAT HAS BEEN IN DEALING WITH THE NORTH KOREANS. ARE YOU ENCOURAGED BY WHAT YOU'RE SEEING GOING ON WITH NORTH KOREA RIGHT NOW?

Richardson: YES, MIKE -- YES, DAVID, I'M SORRY. I AM. AND MAYBE I HAD A LITTLE BIT TO DO WITH IT, IF I MIGHT SAY SO. I WAS THERE FOUR MONTHS AGO, AND WE HAD TWO OBJECTIVES. AND IT WAS A BIPARTISAN DELEGATION. ONE, TO GET THE REMAINS OF SIX OF OUR SERVICE MEN. WE GOT THEM. AND THAT IS CLOSURE FOR A LOT OF FAMILIES. THAT'S HOW WE SHOULD TREAT OUR FALLEN HEROES. SECONDLY, WE PUSH THE NORTH KOREANS TO MOVE TOWARD DISMANTLING THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS. AND THERE'S A LITTLE PROGRESS. THEY'VE INVITED INTERNATIONAL INSPECTORS TO SHUT DOWN THEIR YONGBYON REACTOR, AND THEY'VE DONE IT. MY POINT IS THAT HAS SUCCEEDED BECAUSE WE TALKED WITH THEM DIRECTLY. AND I'VE URGED THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, TALK TO SYRIA DIRECTLY, TALK TO IRAN DIRECTLY, TALK TO THOSE THAT WE DISAGREE WITH. WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, YOU CAN ALSO DELIVER A VERY TOUGH MESSAGE, DAVID.

Henderson: YOU HAVE PROPOSED A MINIMUM WAGE FOR TEACHERS, SPEAKING OF DOMESTIC ISSUES. WHY NOT LET STATES CONTINUE TO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS? WHY SHOULD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SEND SUCH AN EDICT?

Richardson: I AM FOR STATE CONTROL OF SCHOOLS, BUT FEDERAL LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN NONEXISTENT. IN FACT, THEY'VE BROUGHT BACK FORTH THE NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT, WHICH I BELIEVE IS CUMBERSOME AND NEEDS TO BE DRAMATICALLY CHANGED OR REPLACED, UNFUNDED MANDATES. OUR TEACHERS DON'T GET PAID WHAT THEY DESERVE. WHAT'S THE STARTING SALARY, $28,000 A YEAR? IF I'M TO HAVE, WITH THE STATES, A RELATIONSHIP, IT'S GOING TO BE A PARTNERSHIP. AND I'M GOING TO SAY TO THE STATES, I AM FOR A $40,000 PER YEAR MINIMUM SALARY FOR TEACHERS BECAUSE WE NEED TO ATTRACT THE BEST TEACHERS, SCIENCE AND MATH, THE ARTS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO THIS.

Henderson: SO HOW DO YOU PAY FOR IT?

Richardson: I'M GOING TO HAVE A FUND THAT ASSISTS LOCAL COMMUNITIES, KAY. INSTEAD OF HAVING A NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT WHICH FORGETS ABOUT TEACHER TRAINING, AT-RISK AND DISABLED KIDS AND, YOU KNOW, LIST SCHOOLS THAT ARE DOING BADLY AND HUMILIATES THEM AND CUTS THEIR FUNDS, I WOULD DO THE OPPOSITE. IF A SCHOOL IS NOT DOING WELL, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO HAVE PRESCHOOL FOR EVERY CHILD UNDER FOUR. WE NEED TO HAVE FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN. WE NEED TO UPGRADE OURSELVES IN SCIENCE AND MATH. YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE WE NEED TO DO? WE NEED TO HAVE COLLEGE EDUCATION FOR EVERY AMERICAN, NONTRADITIONAL STUDENTS, VOCATIONAL SCHOOL, COMMUNITY COLLEGES. YOU'VE GOT SOME GREAT ONES HERE IN IOWA, BUT SOMEHOW WE'RE SPENDING $450 BILLION IN IRAQ AND WE'RE NOT SPENDING THESE FUNDS ON HEALTH CARE AND OUR DOMESTIC NEEDS LIKE EDUCATION.

Glover: LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SPENDING, IF WE COULD. YOU'RE PART OF A LARGE AND DIVERSE FIELD OF CANDIDATES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PARTISAN AISLE MAKING A LOT OF CAMPAIGN PROMISES, TELLING VOTERS WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM SHOULD YOU GET ELECTED. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE FUTURE GROWTH OF THE BUDGET DEFICIT, WHICH IS ALREADY OUT OF CONTROL?

Richardson: IT SAYS THAT $8.8 TRILLION OF A DEBT THAT WE HAVE IS UNACCEPTABLE AND THAT AS A NATION WE NEED TO DEAL WITH IT. AND THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO -- AND THESE ARE STRONG MEASURES. A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. I HAVE TO DO IT AS A GOVERNOR. STATES HAVE TO DO IT. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO IT. DO IT OVER A FOUR-YEAR PERIOD. MAKE IS SENSIBLE. LINE ITEM VETO AUTHORITY OF THE PRESIDENT. PAY-AS-YOU-GO POLICIES. IF THE CONGRESS STARTS A PROGRAM, PAY FOR IT. IF YOU CUT A TAX, PAY FOR IT. CORPORATE WELFARE, $73 BILLION, COMPANIES FOR TAKING JOBS OVERSEAS GETTING A TAX CUT, GET RID OF ALL THOSE. EARMARKS -- I KNOW THIS IS POPULAR HERE IN IOWA, YOU KNOW, PORK -- I GUESS I SHOULDN'T USE THE WORD PORK -- [ LAUGHTER ] WASTEFUL SPENDING. ALSO, TIE THE SALARIES OF THE CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT, THE PROGRESS ON THE DEFICIT, THAT WOULD GET THINGS TO HAPPEN. MIKE, WHAT WE NEED IS A DEFICIT REDUCTION PLAN. THIS WILL HELP THE ECONOMY, HELP THE MIDDLE CLASS. BUT, LOOK, NO ONE ASKED -- I ALWAYS AM ASKED, WELL, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THIS. NO ONE ASKED HOW WE'RE PAYING FOR THIS WAR, $450 BILLION, DISCRETIONARY SPENDING HIDDEN THERE, MOST OF IT WASTED. YOU KNOW, SO I THINK WE NEED A REAL DEBATE ON WHERE WE SHOULD SPEND OUR PRIORITIES AS A COUNTRY, WHAT WE SHOULD DO. THAT'S HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION. THAT'S SPENDING THE MONEY HERE IN AMERICA.

Henderson: SPEAKING OF HEALTH CARE, BEYOND THE SPECIFICS, HOW WOULD YOU ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING IN OFFICE, GIVEN THE LOBBYIST THAT WILL LINE UP AGAINST ANY CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT?

Richardson: WE'VE GOT A BLOATED BUREAUCRACY, AND 31 PERCENT OF OUR BUREAUCRACY -- OF OUR BUDGET ON HEALTH CARE, $2.2 TRILLION, GOES TO BUREAUCRACY, RED TAPE, HMO WASTE, OVERHEAD. I WOULD HAVE A CITIZEN CORE OF SUPPORTERS SAYING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE CAMPAIGN REFORM, PUBLIC FINANCING. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO END THIS REVOLVING DOOR OF LOBBYISTS. IT WOULD BE A FIGHT BUT I CAN WIN THAT FIGHT. I KNOW HOW TO GET THINGS DONE, TO BUILD COALITIONS. I BELIEVE YOU COULD HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF DOING, BUT WITH A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, WITH MAYBE SOME EXTRA MARGINS OF DEMOCRATS IN THE CONGRESS. BUT, KAY, YOU NEED BIPARTISANSHIP. YOU NEED TO GET SOME REPUBLICANS. YOU'VE GOT TO BUILD COALITIONS. YOU JUST CAN'T DO IT WITH DEMOCRATS. I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. FORTY PERCENT OF THE REPUBLICANS IN NEW MEXICO VOTED FOR ME. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE SMOKING, BUT THEY DID. [ LAUGHTER ]

Glover: GOVERNOR, LET'S GET YOU TO BALANCE A DOMESTIC ISSUE WITH A FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE. THERE IS IN THIS COUNTRY A TENSION BETWEEN THE WAR ON TERROR AND THE PROTECTION OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. IN YOUR MIND, HOW DO YOU STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN THOSE COMPETING ENDS?

Richardson: WELL, VERY CLEARLY, THE MAIN DUTY OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS TO PROTECT ITS PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FROM AN ATTACK ON OUR CITIES, AN ANTHRAX ATTACK, A DIRTY BOMB CROSSING THE BORDER. BUT YOU KNOW, THEY'RE REALLY, IN STRIKING A BALANCE, YOU ERR IN PROTECTING OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES. I WOULD REVISE THE PATRIOTIC ACT. I WOULD WANT EAVESDROP ON MY CITIZENS, THE WAY THIS PRESIDENT DOES WITHOUT A COURT ORDER. I WOULD RESTORE HABEAS CORPUS. AS I SAID, I WOULD SHUT DOWN GUANTANAMO, WHICH HAS, IN MY JUDGMENT, ILLEGAL DETENSIONS WITHOUT CHARGING ANYBODY ANYTHING. I WOULD ELIMINATE WATER-BOARDING, WHICH THE VICE PRESIDENT SEEMS TO THINK IS ACCEPTABLE, IN TRYING TO GET SOME KIND OF ANSWER FROM A DETAINEE. I WOULD LOOK AT THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS AND SAY, ON HUMAN RIGHTS, I'M GOING TO OBSERVE THEM. SO, YEAH, THERE'S GOT TO BE A BALANCE, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN DOING. AND I WOULD BE A PRESIDENT THAT WOULD GET UP AND SAY I WILL FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WE'RE OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

Richardson: THANK YOU, DAVID.

Yepsen: WE APPRECIATE IT.

Richardson: THANK YOU.

Yepsen: AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEKEND'S EDITION OF 'IOWA PRESS.' WE RETURN NEXT WEEKEND AT OUR REGULAR 'IOWA PRESS' AIRTIMES: FRIDAY AT 7:30 AND SUNDAY MORNING AT 11:30. I'M DAVID YEPSEN OF 'THE DES MOINES REGISTER.' THANKS FOR BEING WITH US HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FUNDING FOR 'IOWA PRESS' WAS PROVIDED BY 'FRIENDS,' THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS , AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.


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