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Yepsen: SOME SAY K-12 EDUCATION IN IOWA IS AT A CROSSROADS. SCHOOLS SAY THEY NEED MORE MONEY. WHY AND WHERE WILL IT COME FROM? WE'LL GET THE ASSESSMENTS OF TED STILWILL, DIRECTOR OF THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, ON THIS EDITION OF IOWA PRESS.

FUNDING FOR IOWA PRESS WAS PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS. AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

THIS IS THE SUNDAY, MAY 28^th, EDITION OF IOWA PRESS. HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen: WELL, PRIOR TO THE START OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION OF 2000, ALL INTERESTED PARTIES AGREED THAT EDUCATION IS AT THE TOP OF THE PRIORITY LIST. DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TOM VILSACK AND LEADERS FROM THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE IOWA LEGISLATURE ALL SAID IOWA'S COMMITMENT TO QUALITY EDUCATION MUST BE REINFORCED. AND IT'S A BIG COMMITMENT. K THROUGH 12 AND BOARD OF REGENTS FUNDING ACCOUNT FOR UPWARDS OF 60 PERCENT OF IOWA'S $4.9 BILLION ANNUAL BUDGET. AND THE PRICE TAG FOR QUALITY EDUCATION IS NOT GOING DOWN. THERE ARE OTHER SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS FACING IOWA'S K-12 EDUCATION ESTABLISHMENT, INCLUDING BRICKS-AND-MORTAR INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THE FACT THAT UP TO 40 PERCENT OF IOWA'S TEACHERS WILL BE IN RETIREMENT INSIDE 10 YEARS. HERE TO HELP US SORT THROUGH THE PARTICULARS IS TED STILWILL, WHO IS DIRECTOR OF THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. MR. STILWILL, WELCOME TO IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION AND TO IOWA PRESS.

Stilwill: IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE, DAVID.

Yepsen: GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. AND ALSO JOINING US AT THE IOWA PRESS TABLE ARE STATEHOUSE REPORTERS KATHY OBRADOVICH OF THE LEE NEWSPAPERS, AND MIKE GLOVER OF THE ASSOCIATED PRESS.

Glover: MR. STILWILL, IF THERE IS A CONSENSUS IN THIS EDUCATION DEBATE, THE CONSENSUS IS THAT TEACHER PAY NEEDS TO BE INCREASED. HOW WILL INCREASING TEACHER PAY IMPROVE EDUCATIONAL QUALITY, AND HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT?

Stilwill: IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT NOT ONLY THAT WE JUST INCREASE TEACHER PAY, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO PAY TEACHERS DIFFERENTLY AS WELL. THE CURRENT SYSTEM WE HAVE, NOT ONLY IN IOWA BUT PROBABLY IN NEARLY EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IS A TEACHERS' SALARY SCHEDULE. AND MOST PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

Glover: THE LONGER YOU LIVE, THE LONGER -- THE MORE YOU GET PAID.

Stilwill: THE LONGER YOU LIVE AND THE MORE GRADUATE HOURS YOU ACCUMULATE -- BUT YOU NEED TO LIVE ABOUT 20 YEARS IN TEACHING TO GET TO THE TOP OF THAT SALARY SCHEDULE. AND YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY DON'T SEE THAT AS AN EFFECTIVE INCENTIVE TO BE RECRUITED INTO EDUCATION OR AN INCENTIVE TO STAY. SO WE HAVE MORE TEACHERS THAT ARE LEAVING NOW AT AN EARLIER AGE. SO WE'LL HAVE TO CHALLENGE THOSE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW WE'VE PAID TEACHERS, AS WELL AS HOW MUCH WE'VE PAID THEM.

Glover: AND HOW IMPORTANT OF A PROBLEM IS THAT?

Stilwill: IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. WE HAVE SOME SEVERE SHORTAGE AREAS THAT ARE COMING. THE RETIREMENTS THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT AS SOMETHING THAT WILL OCCUR IN THE FUTURE ARE HAPPENING NOW. WE'RE ALREADY SEEING MORE TEACHERS BEGINNING TO RETIRE. IT USED TO BE THAT WE'D HIRE 700 OR 800 TEACHERS EVERY YEAR IN IOWA. WE'RE NOW HIRING ABOUT 1,000, AND THAT WILL MOVE TO 1,100 OR 1,200 THE WITHIN THE NEXT 2 YEARS.

Obradovich: HOW MUCH HIGHER DO SALARIES NEED TO BE IN ORDER TO MAKE IOWA COMPETITIVE WITH THE KIND OF STATE -- WE'RE COMPETING WITH TEXAS. WE COMPETE WITH CALIFORNIA TO KEEP OUR OWN EDUCATION GRADUATES. OUR OWN GRADUATING TEACHERS ARE BEING RECRUITED BY OTHER STATES. HOW MUCH HIGHER DOES THE STARTING SALARY NEED TO BE IN ORDER TO TRY AND KEEP SOME OF THOSE TEACHERS?

Stilwill: WELL, WE KNOW THAT ON AN AVERAGE, WE LAG BY MORE THAN $5,000. WE KNOW THAT, INCREASINGLY, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A NATIONAL MARKET. BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME TEACHING POSITIONS IN IOWA FOR WHICH WE ARE RELATIVELY COMPETITIVE, EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT BE PAYING PEOPLE ENOUGH. BUT IN TERMS OF SEVERE SHORTAGE AREAS THAT WE'RE STARING IN THE FACE, IN TERMS OF MATH AND SCIENCE AND SPECIAL EDUCATION AND INDUSTRIAL TECHNOLOGY -- AND THE LIST GOES ON -- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PAYING AT HIGHER-THAN-A-MARKET LEVEL. PARTLY IN TERMS OF THE EDUCATION MARKET; BUT THERE'S ALSO A MARKET FOR -- FOLKS WITH A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN MATH AND SCIENCE CAN EARN $40,000 A YEAR TO START, ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. ANYWHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO TEACH, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO START AT $25,000 OR $26,000.

Obradovich: AND WHEN YOU INCREASE -- OF COURSE, WHEN YOU INCREASE THE STARTING PAY, YOU HAVE TO RATCHET IT UP ALL UP THE LINE, RIGHT? OR IS THAT NOT ASSUMED?

Stilwill: I WOULD NOT ASSUME THAT. I THINK AS HARD AS IT'S GOING TO BE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT PAYING TEACHERS DIFFERENTLY. THAT MAY MEAN THAT WE PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR FIRST FEW YEARS OF TEACHING IN AREAS WHERE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND TEACHERS, SUCH AS MATH AND SCIENCE, OR THE OTHER AREAS THAT I'VE MENTIONED. THAT'S GOING TO CREATE SOME DISCOMFORT. BUT, FRANKLY, THAT'S HOW IT WORKS IN HIGHER EDUCATION. THAT'S CERTAINLY HOW IT WORKS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RESPOND TO, AND BE A LITTLE MORE MARKET DRIVEN, ABOUT THOSE SALARIES.

Glover: AND YOU'RE TARGETING THIS TEACHER PAY INCREASE. YOU'VE MENTIONED MATH, SCIENCE, AND SPECIAL EDUCATION. ARE THOSE THE AREAS WHERE IOWA IS GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TEACHER SHORTAGES?

Stilwill: MIKE, THE LIST IS MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.

Glover: WELL, WHAT IS THE LIST?

Stilwill: MATH AND SCIENCE IS -- THE REASON I MENTION IT SO FREQUENTLY, IT'S A CORE SUBJECT, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL PARTICULARLY. AND WITHOUT IT, WITHOUT THOSE TEACHERS, YOU REALLY CAN'T HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL. THERE ARE A VARIETY OF SHORTAGE AREAS IN SPECIAL EDUCATION, DRIVER EDUCATION, GUIDANCE AND COUNSELING, MEDIA AND TECHNOLOGY, SOME AREAS IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE. YOU CAN KEEP ON GOING. BUT THE POINT IS YOU'RE GOING TO PROBABLY HAVE TO RESPOND DIFFERENTLY TO SOME KINDS OF TEACHING POSITIONS THAN OTHERS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO -- INSTEAD OF WAITING 20 YEARS TO GET TO THE TOP OF THE SALARY SCHEDULE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COMPACT THAT. THIS HAPPENS IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY OR BUSINESS. YOU DON'T WAIT 20 YEARS TO GET TO THE TOP OF A SALARY SCHEDULE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT IN A YEAR OR 2 YEARS. IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN GRADUALLY. THE OTHER THING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IS CHANGE THE MECHANISM. THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS GRADUATE HOURS TRANSLATE INTO BETTER STUDENT PERFORMANCE. BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME KINDS OF TRAINING AND STAFF DEVELOPMENT THAT DO TRANSLATE INTO BETTER STUDENT PERFORMANCE. WE OUGHT TO CONDITION INCREASED SALARY INCREMENTS ON THOSE KINDS OF CONTINUING-EDUCATION EXPERIENCES.

Glover: PRESUMABLY IF YOU'RE CALLING FOR ADDITIONAL TEACHER PAY, IT'S GOING TO COST MORE MONEY. HOW MUCH MORE?

Stilwill: I DON'T THINK THERE'S A GOOD ESTIMATE OF THAT.

Yepsen: WELL, SOME PEOPLE HAVE ESTIMATED $175 MILLION. IF YOU GIVE 33,000 TEACHERS A $5,000 PAY RAISE ?

Stilwill: YEP.

Yepsen: ALL RIGHT, IS THAT THE BALLPARK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

Stilwill: THAT MATH WOULD -- FRANKLY, I THINK THAT MATH IS A LITTLE BIT TOO SIMPLISTIC BECAUSE IT DOESN'T -- I DON'T THINK WE'VE DONE ESTIMATES, AND I DON'T EVEN THINK WE HAVE THE MODELS YET IN TERMS OF PAYING PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY. IF YOU PUT ALL THE ASSUMPTIONS IN PLACE TODAY AND SAY, "WELL, WE'RE GOING TO DO THE SAME THING WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN DOING, AND WE'RE GOING TO POUR MONEY INTO IT AND GET IT TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE," YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD COST SOMEWHERE BETWEEN $150 AND $200 MILLION. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT, FRANKLY. SO UNTIL THOSE MODELS ARE A LITTLE CLEARER, I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT PRODUCTIVE TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE COST ESTIMATES WILL BE.

Glover: THE BOTTOM LINE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE LEGISLATURE THAT THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST.

Stilwill: SURE.

Glover: WHAT'S YOUR RECOMMENDATION GOING TO BE?

Stilwill: I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION YET. THE OTHER THING THAT WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR IS THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THIS CHANGE IN A SINGLE YEAR.

Glover: RIGHT.

Stilwill: SO THE OTHER -- ASIDE FROM HAVING TO HAVE A CLEAR MODEL THAT PEOPLE AGREE ON, THAT WE THINK WILL WORK TO PAY PEOPLE WELL AND PAY THEM DIFFERENTLY, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE SEVERAL YEARS. WE'RE A LITTLE DISTANCE AWAY FROM BEING ABLE TO PUT THAT WHOLE PICTURE TOGETHER.

Glover: THE OTHER QUESTION THAT COMES WHEN WE ASK "HOW MUCH" IS "HOW DO YOU PAY FOR IT?" MARTIN JISCHKE, FROM IOWA STATE, WAS ON THIS PROGRAM LAST WEEK AND SAID THE STATE NEEDS A TAX INCREASE TO PAY FOR EDUCATION FUNDING. WHERE DO THEY GET THE MONEY? IS HE RIGHT?

Stilwill: WELL, I HAVE A TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGE. IT'S MY JOB TO ADVOCATE FOR WHAT THE NEEDS ARE IN THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM AND TO ARTICULATE THOSE AS CLEARLY AND IN AS COMPELLING A WAY AS I CAN. THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE GET TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BALANCE THE EDUCATION INTEREST AGAINST THE HEALTHCARE INTEREST, THE ENVIRONMENTAL INTERESTS, AND I REALLY -- YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT IOWA HAS NEEDS IN TERMS OF CHILD CARE, IN TERMS OF CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH. IT'S PROBABLY NOT UP TO ME TO BALANCE ALL THAT AND FIGURE OUT WHERE THE POOLS OF RESOURCES ARE. IS IT GOING TO COST MORE MONEY? I CAN BE PRETTY CLEAR THAT THAT'S THE CASE. HOW MUCH AND THE SOURCES OF THAT REVENUE? YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH; AND IT PROBABLY WON'T BE UP TO ME TO DETERMINE THE SOURCES.

Yepsen: OKAY. YOUR BOSS DOESN'T WANT A TAX INCREASE, SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WON'T AGREE WITH MARTIN JISCHKE HERE. BUT ARE THERE PLACES WITHIN THE EDUCATION ESTABLISHMENT WHERE THERE COULD BE ?

Stilwill: ACTUALLY, I DIDN'T SAY THAT I DIDN'T AGREE WITH MARTIN JISCHKE, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

Yepsen: ARE THERE PLACES INSIDE THE EDUCATION ESTABLISHMENT WHERE THERE COULD BE SOME EFFICIENCIES?

Stilwill: SURE.

Yepsen: WHERE?

Stilwill: WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL SEE IS THAT WE HAVE SOME INEFFICIENCIES IN TERMS OF THE WAY WE'RE APPROACHING SOME FRAGMENTATION IN THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM NOW. WE TEND TO HAVE DIFFERENT POTS OF MONEY, AND IN THE PAST WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT -- WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT PLANS FOR SCHOOL TECHNOLOGY. WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT PLANS FOR CLASS-SIZE REDUCTION. WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT PLANS FOR TITLE I PROGRAMS, FEDERAL PROGRAMS, SPECIAL EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS. WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AND WILL DO A LOT MORE OF IS: HOW DO YOU CONSOLIDATE THOSE KINDS OF FUNDING SOURCES THAT ARE THERE AND GET MORE MILEAGE OUT OF THEM? HOW DO YOU FOCUS ALL OF THOSE PROGRAMS ON IMPROVING STUDENT PERFORMANCE IN A MUCH MORE SINGULAR WAY?

Yepsen: HOW ABOUT SCHOOL MERGERS?

Stilwill: OH, I THINK THE PLACE WHERE WE SEE INEFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF THE QUESTION OF SMALLER SCHOOL DISTRICTS PROBABLY IS AT A HIGH-SCHOOL LEVEL. YOU CAN CONCEIVABLY RUN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS A VERY SMALL SIZE. AND I'M NOT BOTHERED BY HAVING 375 SCHOOL BOARDS AND THAT KIND OF COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT. FRANKLY, I THINK THAT'S A REAL ASSET FOR US. BUT WE'RE REACHING A POINT -- I THINK WE HAVE ABOUT 125 HIGH SCHOOLS IN IOWA WITH FEWER THAN 200 STUDENTS. THAT MEANS, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT A HIGH-SCHOOL CURRICULUM LOOKS LIKE AND YOU'RE STARTING TO SPREAD KIDS OUT IN ADVANCED COURSES AND ELECTIVE COURSES, YOU HAVE VERY FEW KIDS IN THOSE CLASSES. IF AND YOU ONLY HAVE 5 OR 6 KIDS IN A CLASS, IN A SMALLER SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND YOU HAVE 25 KIDS IN A CLASS IN A LARGER SCHOOL DISTRICT, THERE'S AN INEFFICIENCY THERE. NOW, YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE THEM ALL 25 OR COME UP WITH AN AVERAGE; BUT YOU CAN INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY, PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS OF HIGH SCHOOL.

Yepsen: SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE SHOULD BE SCHOOL MERGERS IN IOWA.

Stilwill: I'M SAYING -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE TRADITIONALLY THOUGHT, "WELL, GEE, WE JUST NEED TO REORGANIZE AND MERGE SCHOOL DISTRICTS." I THINK THE PART OF THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM THAT IS LEAST EFFICIENT RIGHT NOW, AND IS COSTING US THE MOST, THAT WE CAN CHANGE, ARE HIGH SCHOOL PROGRAMS, AND PARTICULARLY THE LAST COUPLE YEARS OF HIGH SCHOOL. SO WE CAN THINK ABOUT CREATING REGIONAL ACADEMIES THAT CAN SERVE THE NEEDS OF KIDS IN RURAL AREAS AND, FRANKLY, IN URBAN AREAS, MORE EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY BY CONSOLIDATING THOSE KIDS WHO NEED ADVANCED PROGRAMS OR BETTER ACCESS TO POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION. WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE KIDS RIGHT NOW THAT, BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY ARE -- AND THEY'RE IN A PRETTY SMALL HIGH SCHOOL, WHICH MAY HAVE SOME OTHER ADVANTAGES FOR THEM -- BUT THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE ACCESS TO THE ADVANCED COURSES. MAYBE THEY'RE GETTING ACCESS TO A PHYSICS COURSE EVERY OTHER YEAR. THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE CASE. THEY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO PHYSICS EVERY YEAR AND ADVANCED PHYSICS AS WELL. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET POST-SECONDARY CREDIT FOR AP PHYSICS.

Obradovich: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT MORE SCHOOL MERGERS, POLITICALLY, IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE FLIP SIDE OF INCREASING TEACHER SALARIES? WE'VE HEARD ALREADY LEGISLATORS TALKING ABOUT THE TEACHER-PAY ISSUE AND SAYING THAT --BASICALLY, THAT HAND-IN-HAND, MORE INCENTIVE FOR MERGERS AND CONSOLIDATION IS GOING TO GO ALONG WITH THAT. IS THAT POLITICAL REALITY AT THIS POINT?

Stilwill: THE LEGISLATURE HAS ASKED US TO MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS WITH REGARD TO REORGANIZATION INCENTIVES. I THINK THAT THE KIND OF RECOMMENDATIONS WE'LL BE MAKING WILL NOT DEAL -- WILL DEAL TO SOME EXTENT WITH INCENTIVES FOR SCHOOL REORGANIZATION AND MERGERS DIRECTLY. BUT IT'S ALSO LIKELY THAT WE'LL INCLUDE SOME SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT HOW TO DO BETTER COLLABORATION AND CONSOLIDATION AND SHARING AT A SECONDARY LEVEL, AT A HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, BECAUSE THAT'S THE PLACE WHERE IT'S NOT WORKING. THE OTHER THING THAT WE'LL -- I KNOW THAT WE'LL CLEARLY BE RECOMMENDING IS IN TERMS OF ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT FOR THE OPERATION OF SCHOOLS, BUSINESS-OFFICE KINDS OF THINGS. IT'S NOT VERY SMART TO HAVE 375 DIFFERENT PAYROLL AND ACCOUNTING AND PURCHASING FUNCTIONS; TRANSPORTATION FUNCTIONS; PERSONNEL FUNCTIONS. IF YOU ONLY HIRE IN A SMALL DISTRICT AND YOU'RE HIRING A PRINCIPAL ONCE EVERY 5 YEARS, YOU DON'T GET GOOD AT IT. IF WE COULD BRING SCHOOL DISTRICTS INTO CONSORTIA TO ADDRESS THOSE KINDS OF PROBLEMS, WE'LL INCREASE EFFICIENCY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE'LL INCREASE THE QUALITY OF THE OPERATION.

Obradovich: NONE OF THAT REALLY OVERCOMES THE HUGE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT, THOUGH, THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE TO THEIR LOCAL SCHOOLS. WE'VE GOT SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE ALREADY MERGED THAT ARE STILL FIGHTING OVER TURF AND EVEN -- IN BELMOND-KLEMME, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WANT TO SPLIT. YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU OVERCOME THE FACT THAT COMMUNITIES BASICALLY SEE THEIR OWN HIGH SCHOOL AS BEING ONE OF THE BIG ATTRACTIONS IN THEIR TOWN?

Stilwill: KATHY, THE RECORD'S PRETTY CLEAR HOW YOU OVERCOME THAT IN THE LONG-TERM. IT'S REALLY NOT BY TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE. BECAUSE YOU DON'T SAVE ALL THAT MUCH MONEY. WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY PER PUPIL FOR KIDS IN IOWA NO MATTER THE SIZE OF THE DISTRICT. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS: YOU'LL IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION FOR KIDS IF YOU CAN LOOK AT HOW DO YOU COLLABORATE AND CONSOLIDATE SOME KINDS OF EDUCATIONAL FUNCTIONS. YOU MAY NOT HAVE TO DO THAT TO THE SAME EXTENT AT THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL THAT YOU DO AT THE SECONDARY LEVEL THAT YOU DO IN SOME OF THE BUSINESS-OFFICE FUNCTIONS FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS. BUT BY ADVOCATING FOR WHAT'S BEST FOR KIDS -- ONE OF THE NEAT THINGS ABOUT WORKING IN EDUCATION IN IOWA, PEOPLE GENERALLY LISTEN TO THAT. AND THEY WANT -- YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY, THE ADULTS WILL QUIT ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER AND PUT ASIDE THEIR OWN INTERESTS AND THEIR OWN HISTORICAL CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR COMMUNITY AND EVENTUALLY DO WHAT'S BEST FOR KIDS. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY. SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T HAPPEN QUICKLY. LOTS OF TIME, IT DOES. THAT DOESN'T GET AS MUCH ATTENTION. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE FOUND, IF WE'RE CLEAR IN TERMS OF OUR FOCUS FOR WHAT'S BEST FOR KIDS, IN IOWA, PEOPLE TEND TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.

Glover: YOU TALKED ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE STATE IS GOING TO SPEND PER CAPITA FOR TEACHING KIDS. THIS IS A FAIRLY LOW-WAGE STATE. ON A NATIONAL COMPARISON, IOWA IS A LOW-INCOME, LOW-WAGE STATE. WHAT'S THE CAPACITY FOR THIS STATE TO SUPPORT ITS LOCAL SCHOOLS? DOES THIS STATE HAVE A LESS CAPACITY THAN OTHER STATES? ARE WE JUST SIMPLY TOO LOW-INCOME?

Stilwill: WELL --

Glover: AT WHAT POINT DO YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM BEFORE YOU CAN ADDRESS SCHOOL PROBLEMS?

Stilwill: IT'S A -- LET ME JUST BROADEN THE HORIZON A LITTLE BIT. YOU CREATE A HIGHER-INCOME STATE THROUGH A STRONG EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. IOWA HAS ONE OF THE BEST EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY. ONE OF THE THINGS I DIDN'T REALIZE WHEN I CAME INTO THIS JOB IS THAT I'D GET A CHANCE TO SEE HOW OTHER STATES MANAGE EDUCATION AND MANAGE GOVERNMENT. WE DO THAT PRETTY WELL IN IOWA. AND BOTH EDUCATION AND GOVERNMENT WORK PRETTY EFFECTIVELY. WHAT WE HAVE TO NOW DO IS USE AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM AS AN ASSET TO CREATE A STATE AND TO CREATE AN ECONOMY THAT CAN BETTER SUPPORT ITS PEOPLE. WHERE I THINK WE'RE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW -- I MEAN, WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE LEAVING THE STATE TO GET -- FOR BETTER ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. WE CAN'T ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE. WE HAVE TO POSITION THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM... NOT JUST THE K-12 SYSTEM, BUT CERTAINLY THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES WHICH -- BEFORE GOVERNOR VILSACK WAS GOVERNOR, HE TALKED ABOUT BEING THE ENGINES OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND I THINK HE'S EXACTLY RIGHT. POSITION THE RESEARCH CAPABILITY OF THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS AND THE PRIVATE COLLEGES TOWARDS AN ECONOMIC FUTURE WHERE YOU ESTABLISH SOME STRONG PRIORITIES. EDUCATION WILL BE PART OF THAT SOLUTION, BUT IT'S AN ASSET THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE.

Glover: AND BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS TEACHER-PAY THING, YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF TEACHER PAY. YOU TALKED ABOUT GETTING AWAY FROM THE SENIORITY BASE AND GIVING SOME EXTRA CREDIT FOR COURSES OR DEVELOPMENT THAT TEACHERS MAKE. WHAT ELSE DOES THE RETHINKING OF TEACHER PAY INVOLVE?

Stilwill: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WE'RE LEARNING FROM WATCHING FOLKS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS THAT YOU NEED TO USE COMPENSATION MECHANISMS TO DRIVE THE GOALS OF THE ORGANIZATION MORE EFFECTIVELY. SO, AS I SAID, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CONTINUING EDUCATION THAT YOU'RE PAYING PEOPLE FOR, REWARDING THEM FOR, IS GOING TO IMPROVE THEIR PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE. IT'S GOING TO MAKE THEM BETTER TEACHERS OR BETTER SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS.

Glover: HOW DO YOU MEASURE THAT?

Stilwill: I DON'T THINK THAT'S TOO TOUGH. WE KNOW WHAT KINDS OF PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT, WHAT KINDS OF TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES FOR TEACHERS, TRANSLATE INTO BETTER STUDENT PERFORMANCE. WE KNOW HOW TO -- AND WE'RE DOING IT NOW -- WE KNOW HOW TO PROVIDE THE TEACHING STRATEGIES FOR TEACHERS THAT WILL MAKE THEM BETTER READING TEACHERS, BETTER MATH TEACHERS, BETTER SCIENCE TEACHERS. AND WE'RE DOING THAT. IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN PEOPLE THOUGHT. YOU DON'T GET IT IN TERMS OF GOING TO A 3-HOUR WORKSHOP. THERE ARE SOME COMPONENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN PLACE. YOU HAVE TO LEARN WITH COLLEAGUES. THE STUFF THAT YOU'RE OFFERING TO PEOPLE HAS TO BE RESEARCH-BASED. AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CHANCE TO PRACTICE IT IN CLASSROOMS AS THEY'RE LEARNING IT. IF YOU DO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, YOU'RE GOING TO IMPROVE TEACHING AND YOU'RE GOING TO IMPROVE LEARNING.

Yepsen: I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON MIKE'S POINT ABOUT IOWA'S AVERAGE SALARIES BEING BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. MANY TEACHERS IN MANY SMALL TOWNS ARE AMONG THE BEST-PAID PEOPLE IN TOWN, AND THEY ONLY WORK 180 DAYS A YEAR. NOW, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT'S A REASON NOT TO RAISE TEACHER PAY?

Stilwill: I THINK AS YOU'RE DOING THE MARKET COMPARISONS, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT TEACHERS MAY NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO AUTOMATICALLY PROPORTIONATELY INCREASE THEIR SALARY DURING THE SUMMER IF THEY MOVE INTO SOME KIND OF ALTERNATE EMPLOYMENT. YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS A TEACHER, I ENJOYED DOING SOME OTHER THINGS DURING THE SUMMER, TAKING COURSES AMONG THEM. AND I ENJOYED DOING SOME DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS OCCASIONALLY. BUT WHEN I WAS DOING LANDSCAPE WORK OR WORKING IN MEAT-PACKING PLANTS OR DOING THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, I WASN'T EARNING -- SOMETIMES, ACTUALLY, WITH MEAT-PACKING PLANTS, I WAS EARNING MORE THAN I WAS AS A TEACHER. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TEACHERS AUTOMATICALLY OUGHT TO GET THREE-FOURTHS OF THE MARKET PAY, BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO THAT FULL MARKET. BUT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT AS YOU'RE DETERMINING WHAT THOSE MARKET LEVELS ARE, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING PEOPLE TO THE PROFESSION.

Obradovich: IN IOWA, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN AN EMPHASIS ON LOCAL CONTROL, THAT LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS GET TO DECIDE -- THE STATE SETS THE MINIMUM ON HOW MUCH TO PAY TEACHERS, BUT LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE TAKEN IT FROM THERE AND COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IS A PART OF IT. BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PERHAPS, MAYBE, STANDARDIZING THAT A LITTLE BIT. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MOVING INTO A STATEWIDE TEACHER SCHEDULE FOR PAY?

Stilwill: I THINK IT'S PROBABLY MORE OF A COMBINATION. I HAVE A VERY STRONG RESPECT FOR BUILDING THE CAPABILITY OF LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS EMPLOYERS, TO ACT WITH GREAT AUTONOMY. THE MORE WE MOVE TO STATEWIDE SALARY SCHEDULES, THE MORE WE MOVE TO THOSE SORTS OF CONSISTENCIES, FRANKLY, THE MORE THE CONTROL, THE MORE THE DECISION MAKING MOVES TO THE STATE LEVEL. THAT ISN'T WHAT, HISTORICALLY, HAS MADE IOWA'S EDUCATION SYSTEM VERY GOOD. WE'RE BEATING THE ODDS NOW. WE'RE DOING VERY WELL FOR OUR KIDS, IN SPITE OF SOME THINGS THAT WE PREDICTED WE WOULD NOT DO AS WELL. AS MIKE SAID, WE DON'T HAVE THE INCOME LEVEL THAT OTHER STATES HAVE. BUT WE HAVE THAT UNIFORM COMMITMENT. AND I DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING TO DISTURB OR NEGATE THAT.

Obradovich: THE OTHER METHOD THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST FOR CHANGING THE STRUCTURE FOR TEACHER SALARIES HAS BEEN MERIT PAY. AND THAT HAS ALWAYS FOUND A LOT OF RESISTANCE FROM TEACHERS THEMSELVES WHO SAY, YOU KNOW, "IT'S GOING TO BE A SUPERINTENDENT'S GOLFING BUDDY WHO'S GOING TO GET THE RAISE." THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT FAVORITISM, AND THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT A MERIT-PAY STRUCTURE THAT'S FAIR FOR EVERYBODY. I MEAN, IS THAT REALISTIC AT THIS POINT TO TALK ABOUT MERIT PAY?

Stilwill: I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, KATHY. OUR HISTORY HAS BEEN TROUBLESOME. AND AS MERIT PAY HAS BEEN TRIED IN TERMS OF PAYING ONE TEACHER MORE THAN THE NEXT TEACHER BASED ON SOMEBODY'S OPINION OR SOME RELATIVELY POOR MEASUREMENT TECHNIQUES HASN'T WORKED. AND, FRANKLY, THE OTHER REASON IT'S PROBABLY -- THE OLD-STYLE MERIT PAY IS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA IS IT CREATED COMPETITION WITHIN A SCHOOL. YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TEACHING A CLASS AND I WAS TEACHING A CLASS, YOU MIGHT GET $200 MORE BECAUSE YOU WERE A LITTLE BIT BETTER AT IT. THAT WAS JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE ME MAD, AND NOT ENOUGH TO PROVIDE MUCH OF AN INCENTIVE TO YOU. SO WHAT WE CAN LOOK AT IS INCENTING THE PERFORMANCE OF AN ENTIRE SCHOOL IN CREATING GOALS FOR THAT SCHOOL AND, PERHAPS, REWARDING EVERYBODY IN IT.

Yepsen: WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO SOME OTHER EDUCATION TOPICS HERE. SCHOOL BUILDING REPAIRS. THE CRUMBLING SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE. THE STATE, THIS YEAR, GOT INTO THE BUSINESS OF HELPING SOME SMALL, RURAL SCHOOLS DO SCHOOL REPAIR, ONLY ABOUT $50 MILLION. WILL THE VILSACK ADMINISTRATION BE RECOMMENDING MORE MONEY FOR LOCAL SCHOOL-BUILDING REPAIRS?

Stilwill: WELL, I THINK WE HAVE OUR FOOT IN THE DOOR AT THIS POINT. THAT'S PRETTY HISTORIC. THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE IN IOWA FOR DECADES. I'M REALLY PLEASED THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE RESPONDED.

Yepsen: BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. MY QUESTION IS: WILL THERE BE MORE MONEY PROPOSED NEXT YEAR TO THESE SMALL, RURAL SCHOOLS?

Stilwill: WELL, I THINK WHAT'S LIKELY IS WE'LL BEGIN TO ROLL OUT THE PROGRAM THAT THE LEGISLATURE JUST PASSED. I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW THAT WORKS, COMBINING IT WITH THE FEDERAL FUNDS THAT HAVE BECOME AVAILABLE. I THINK IN TERMS OF OUR OVERALL INVESTMENT STRATEGY, MY GUESS IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE -- AND I HAVEN'T TALKED WITH THE GOVERNOR ABOUT IT BUT -- WILL BE MORE INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW THAT WORKS BEFORE THEY INCREASE THAT INVESTMENT.

Obradovich: THERE'S ONLY GOING TO BE ABOUT 50 SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT GET MONEY, THOUGH. I MEAN, HOW SAFE ARE DISTRICTS ELSEWHERE IN THE STATE? IS THE MAIN CONCERN THAT THESE DISTRICTS ARE NOT PUTTING ENOUGH MONEY INTO FIRE SAFETY AND, YOU KNOW, BASIC LIFE-SAFETY ISSUES? OR IS IT MORE A SITUATION OF THESE SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM? YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT AS NICE AS THEY SHOULD BE?

Stilwill: WELL, I THINK THAT THE -- I'M A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE SINCE WE'VE NOW -- WE'RE NOW IN THE SECOND YEAR OF USING FEDERAL FUNDING, AND ABOUT A THIRD OF THAT HAS BEEN PARTITIONED OFF SPECIFICALLY FOR LIFE-SAFETY ISSUES. WE'VE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE FIRE MARSHAL WHO ACTUALLY SITS ON THE SCHOOL BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR THE PURPOSES OF DISTRIBUTING THOSE FUNDS. AND I'M A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE THAT THE VERY HIGH-PROFILE, MOST DANGEROUS SITUATIONS HAVE BEGUN TO BE ADDRESSED. IT'S TOO EASY TO SAY THAT -- TO GET TOO COMFORTABLE IN THAT REGARD, BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHEN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN. IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF -- THE INFRASTRUCTURE QUESTION IS NOT JUST A MATTER OF COMFORT AND APPEARANCE, HOWEVER. WE HAVE SCHOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN COBBLED TOGETHER OVER DECADES AND DECADES OF THIS ADDITION AND THAT ADDITION. AND THEY DON'T FUNCTION WELL AS A BUILDING, IN TERMS OF THE INSTRUCTIONAL PROGRAM. IT REALLY DOESN'T SUPPORT THE INSTRUCTIONAL PROGRAM. THEY'VE BEEN ADDED ON SO MANY TIMES, AND SOME PARTS OF THOSE STRUCTURES ARE LITERALLY FALLING APART AND NEED TO BE REPLACED.

Glover: A DEBATE THAT WAS RAGING A FEW YEARS AGO IN THE EDUCATION COMMUNITY AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD A LOT ABOUT IN RECENT YEARS IS THE SCHOOL CALENDAR. IS IT TIME TO RETHINK THE AMOUNT OF TIME KIDS SPEND IN SCHOOL -- BOTH THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY SPEND IN TERMS OF THE SCHOOL YEAR AND THE SCHOOL DAY? IS IT TIME TO LENGTHEN BOTH OF THEM?

Stilwill: I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAPPEN VERY SLOWLY. IT'S BEEN VERY INTERESTING FOR ME TO WATCH. EVERY TIME A SCHOOL DISTRICT OF ANY SIZE TRIES TO DO THAT ON A DISTRICT-WIDE BASIS, THEY DON'T GET ANYWHERE. INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS, IN CONCERT WITH THEIR PARENTS AND THEIR TEACHERS, CAN MOVE AND CAN MOVE THAT ISSUE. SO I SUSPECT IT'S GOING TO MOVE MORE ON THOSE FRONTS. IT'S -- IF YOU THINK TEACHER SALARIES ARE EXPENSIVE IN TERMS OF MAKING SOME CHANGES THERE, LENGTHENING THE SCHOOL YEAR -- YOU KNOW, EVERY DAY YOU'RE GOING TO ADD ON A STATEWIDE BASIS IS GOING TO BE PROBABLY $12 TO $14 MILLION.

Glover: IS IT NEEDED?

Stilwill: I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT EXTENDED-YEAR PROGRAMS, PARTICULARLY FOR SOME KIDS, FOR BOTH REMEDIAL AND ENRICHMENT PURPOSES. RIGHT NOW I'M NOT SURE THAT THE BEST INVESTMENT, IF YOU HAD TO DECIDE THE NUMBER ONE PLACE YOU NEEDED TO SPEND MONEY IN EDUCATION WAS TO AUTOMATICALLY MOVE TO AN EXTENSION OF THE SCHOOL YEAR, I DON'T THINK THERE'S THE POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR IT AS WELL AMONG PARENTS.

Obradovich: IOWA'S HAD ABOUT 10 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE NOW ON SCHOOL CHOICE WITHIN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. OPEN ENROLLMENT NOW HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ABOUT A DECADE. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT'S WORKING?

Stilwill: I THINK IT'S BEEN MODESTLY EFFECTIVE. AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, SOMETIMES THE ADULTS IN A SCHOOL DISTRICT GET A LITTLE DISTRACTED AND DON'T THINK ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR KIDS FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S A SAFETY VALVE IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE CAN BEGIN TO CREATE AN EXODUS THAT PRESSURES THE LEADERSHIP AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO GET BACK TO BUSINESS. ASIDE FROM THAT, I THINK, VERY APPROPRIATELY, IT'S ALLOWED SOME PARENTS TO LIVE IN ONE COMMUNITY AND ENROLL THEIR KIDS IN ANOTHER COMMUNITY WHERE THEY MIGHT WORK OR THAT'S ON A COMMUTER PATH. AND I THINK THAT'S FINE. HAS IT BEEN THE ANSWER FOR IMPROVING EDUCATION IN IOWA? PROBABLY NOT. HAS IT BEEN MODESTLY BENEFICIAL? CERTAINLY.

Obradovich: SOME PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CHOICE. THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE CHARTER SCHOOLS CREATED, MORE FREEDOM FOR THAT. CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE SCHOOLS THAT ARE FREE FROM A LOT OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL REGULATION THAT GOVERN OTHER SCHOOLS. AND ALSO MORE CHOICE FOR STUDENTS TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL WITH PUBLIC SUBSIDY. IS THERE ANY FUTURE FOR THAT IN THIS ADMINISTRATION?

Stilwill: I THINK YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE OPEN TO INNOVATION AND TO NEW IDEAS AND TO THINKING DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE STRUCTURE THAT YOU HAVE. THAT BEING SAID, I'M NOT SURE THAT IOWA IS EXACTLY -- HAS THE PRIME CONDITIONS FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS. AS WE SPENT SOME TIME DISCUSSING EARLIER, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE FILLING THE SCHOOLS WE HAVE WITHOUT CREATING NEW ATTENDANCE CENTERS. I MEAN, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH KIDS FOR THE SCHOOLS WE HAVE. SO IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO IMAGINE, IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES IN IOWA, CREATING ANOTHER ATTENDANCE CENTER THAT'S GOING TO, IN ANY WAY, BE FUNCTIONAL. THE OTHER THING IS I DON'T THINK THERE'S VERY STRONG RESEARCH TO SHOW US THAT, AS A WHOLE, CHARTER SCHOOLS HAVE REALLY MADE A VERY SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE IN STUDENT PERFORMANCE. SOME HAVE DONE BETTER. SOME HAVE DONE NOT SO WELL. I DON'T THINK THE SCIENCE OF EDUCATION HAS ADVANCED SO MUCH THAT SOME SCHOOL HAS DISCOVERED AN ANSWER THAT SOME OTHER SCHOOL HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO ADOPT OR ADAPT. AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS AS WELL.

Glover: ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS, THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, DID PRETTY WELL. THEY DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING THEY WANTED, BUT THEY HAD A PRETTY GOOD YEAR. SINCE THIS LEGISLATURE HAS ADJOURNED, THE PUBLIC COLLEGES HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING. HAVE WE SET UP A COMPETITION BETWEEN ELEMENTARY, SECONDARY EDUCATION AND HIGHER EDUCATION FOR SCARCE STATE RESOURCES? ISN'T THAT POLITICAL REALITY NOW?

Stilwill: I THINK THE POLITICAL REALITY IS THAT THE RESOURCES ARE SCARCE, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.

Glover: BUT DOESN'T THAT INEVITABLY BREED COMPETITION; RIGHT?

Stilwill: IT INEVITABLY ARGUES FOR A PLAN TO DETERMINE WHAT ARE THE APPROPRIATE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, NOT ONLY FOR THE DIFFERENT AGENTS WITH THE EDUCATION COMMUNITY, BUT HEALTH SERVICES, ENVIRONMENT, AND SO ON. THAT WHOLE TERRAIN, THAT WHOLE PLAN, HAS TO COME TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT SUPPORTS THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR PEOPLE IN IOWA. IT'S UNFORTUNATE IF PEOPLE SEE --

Glover: AND IT HASN'T SO FAR.

Stilwill: WELL, I THINK IT IS COMING TOGETHER, AND I THINK IT WILL AS WE SEE MORE OF THAT ROLL OUT. IF PEOPLE IN IOWA WERE BEGINNING TO THINK ABOUT THESE ISSUES, IT WOULD JUST MAKE SENSE TO THEM. I THINK WE HAVE THE KIND OF LEADERSHIP NOW THAT'S HELPING TO CREATE THAT SORT OF A PICTURE. IF YOU GIVE PEOPLE IN IOWA THE SORT OF PICTURE TO THEM THAT MAKES SENSE, THEY TEND TO MOVE TOWARDS IT. PRETTY SMART POPULATION.

Yepsen: MR. STILWILL, WE'RE OUT OF TIME. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US THIS WEEK. APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING THE TIME TO BE HERE.

Stilwill: IT'S BEEN GREAT.

Yepsen: AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF IOWA PRESS. DEAN BORG REJOINS US NEXT SUNDAY, AND I HOPE YOU WILL AS WELL. UNTIL THEN, I'M DAVID YEPSEN OF THE DES MOINES REGISTER," AND THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FUNDING FOR IOWA PRESS WAS PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS. AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.