Iowa Public Television

Narrator: FUNDING FOR IOWA PRESS HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; BY THE ASSOCIATION OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY... THE VOICE OF IOWA BUSINESS, REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF OVER 1,500 IOWA BUSINESSES EMPLOYING 300,000 IOWANS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. THIS IS THE SUNDAY, JANUARY 21 EDITION OF IOWA PRESS. HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: IT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT YEAR FOR THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND THE KIND OF DIFFICULTIES THAT MAKE FRONT-PAGE NEWS. DEPARTMENT STAFFERS ARE WORKING IN THE SHADOW OF THE HIGHLY PUBLICIZED CASE OF SHELBY DUIS, THE TWO-YEAR-OLD SPIRIT LAKE CHILD WHO DIED FOLLOWING CONTINUED ABUSE AT HOME. AND AT TIMES IT SEEMS THE DEPTH OF THAT TRAGEDY IS OVERRIDDEN BY THE DIN OF PARTISAN INFIGHTING ON THE ISSUE. DHS CRITICS CHARGE MISMANAGEMENT BY THE ADMINISTRATION OF DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TOM VILSACK. OTHERS SAY THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED IOWA LEGISLATURE HANDCUFFED THE DHS, REDUCING FUNDING FOR FIELDWORK AND CASEWORKERS, AND SPREADING RESOURCES TOO THINLY FOR THE AGENCY TO PERFORM ITS MISSION. OTHERS FOCUS ON THE DEPARTMENT'S USE OF OUTSIDE CONSULTANTS TO ASSIST IN ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT, A STANDARD PRACTICE IN GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. BUT DETRACTORS SAY DHS USED CONSULTANTS EXCESSIVELY AND WITHOUT CLOSE ATTENTION TO COSTS. BUT IN THE MIDST OF THE STORM CLOUDS, THE NEED FOR HUMAN SERVICES IN IOWA REMAINS. AND JOINING US TODAY WITH HER PERSPECTIVE IS DHS DIRECTOR JESSIE RASMUSSEN. WELCOME TO IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION AND TO IOWA PRESS.

Rasmussen: THANK YOU.

Borg: ACROSS THE TABLE: STATEHOUSE REPORTERS DAVID YEPSEN OF THE DES MOINES REGISTER AND MIKE GLOVER OF THE ASSOCIATED PRESS.

Glover: MS. RASMUSSEN, THE SHELBY DUIS CASE HAS OCCUPIED THE ATTENTION OF THIS STATE FOR THE BETTER PART OF A YEAR. OBVIOUSLY IT'S A TRAGEDY. WERE THERE MISTAKES MADE IN THE HANDLING OF THAT CASE?

Rasmussen: WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE CASE IN THE FIRST MONTH AFTER THE TRAGIC DEATH OF SHELBY DUIS, WE SAW THINGS THAT WERE NOT DONE AS WELL AS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE. BUT WE DIDN'T SEE AT THAT TIME VIOLATIONS OF POLICY THAT WOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN THE TRAGIC OUTCOME FOR SHELBY. THE OMBUDSMAN HAD TIME, RESOURCES, POWER THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE. THEY TOOK ALL THE TIME THEY NEEDED, WHICH IS GOOD, WHICH WAS CLOSE TO TEN MONTHS. THEY HAD FOUR PEOPLE FULL TIME. THEY WERE ABLE TO PUT ALL OTHER WORK ON HOLD WHILE THEY LOOKED AT THIS. THEY HAD SUBPOENA POWER. AND THEY WERE ABLE TO INTERVIEW PEOPLE NOT ONCE BUT TWICE, THREE, FOUR, FIVE TIMES. AND THEY WERE ABLE TO GET PHONE RECORDS, PHONE RECORDS FROM ONE COMPANY THAT DIDN'T AGREE WITH PHONE RECORDS FROM ANOTHER COMPANY. THEY WERE ABLE TO GET OUTSIDE PHYSICIAN OPINIONS. SO BY THE TIME -- AND AS THEY WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS, WE WERE VERY CLOSELY INVOLVED, OF COURSE. AND AS WE BEGIN TO LEARN MORE, I BECAME MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. IN CONCLUSION, WE FELT LIKE THERE WERE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE DID.

Glover: WHAT WERE THEY?

Rasmussen: WHEN WE FIRST LOOKED AT IT, THERE WERE ISSUES AROUND DOCUMENTATION: DOES DOCUMENTATION MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT CHILDREN ARE SAFE. THAT'S PROBABLY NOT A DIRECT CORRELATION. BUT AS WE GOT INTO IT, I FOUND OUT WHETHER OR NOT WE RESPONDED AS QUICKLY, WHETHER OR NOT INFORMATION WAS PASSED ON TO THE APPROPRIATE PEOPLE, AND WHETHER OR NOT WE ASKED ENOUGH QUESTIONS, GOT ENOUGH OPINIONS. THOSE CAME INTO QUESTION. I THINK WE COULD HAVE DONE A MUCH BETTER JOB. NOW, WE WOULD PROBABLY COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION THAT THE OMBUDSMAN DID IN SPITE OF ALL THAT INFORMATION, AND THAT IS WE STILL DO NOT KNOW IF WE WOULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING RIGHT... WOULD IT HAVE CHANGED THE TRAGIC OUTCOME FOR SHELBY.

Yepsen: WHAT LESSONS WERE LEARNED BY ALL THIS? IT'S BEEN A YEAR. YOU'VE HAD NOW THREE INVESTIGATIONS -- YOURS, THE AMERICAN HUMANE ASSOCIATION, AND THE STATE OMBUDSMAN. WHAT LESSONS WERE LEARNED AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING DIFFERENTLY TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE?

Rasmussen: WELL, WE BEGAN MAKING CHANGES WITHIN 30 DAYS AROUND TRAINING OF OUR STAFF. WE BELIEVE WE NEED STRONGER INVESTIGATORY SKILLS, SO WE INCREASED OUR TRAINING AROUND THAT. WE LEARNED THAT WE NEED MORE SKILLS AROUND ASSESSING THE RISK RELATED TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE, SO WE BEGAN WORK IMMEDIATELY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO TRAIN OUR WORKERS TO RECOGNIZE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES, TO KNOW WHERE THE RESOURCES ARE. AND WE'RE NOW WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO DEVELOP A TOOL THAT WILL ALLOW US TO ASSESS FOR THOSE RISKS. WE'VE CHANGED SOME OF OUR POLICIES AROUND THE RESPONSE TIME IN TERMS OF HOW QUICKLY WE NEED TO GET INFORMATION BACK TO MANDATORY REPORTERS, THAT WE GIVE THEM NOT ONLY VERBAL INFORMATION BUT WRITTEN INFORMATION. AND AS YOU LOOK AT THE 23 RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY THE OMBUDSMAN, OVER HALF OF THEM WERE ALREADY DONE BY THE TIME THAT REPORT CAME OUT, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T THINK WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL THE REPORT CAME OUT. AND WE HAVE DONE ALL BUT TWO OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS NOW. AND ONLY THE LAST TWO ARE SIMPLY A MATTER -- ONE OF THEM WE DIDN'T AGREE WITH, AND ONE WE JUST THINK NEEDS MORE EXPLORATION BEFORE WE DO IT. SO WE'VE MADE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. WE'RE CONTINUING TO MAKE CHANGES. THE BOTTOM LINE WHAT WE LEARNED IS THAT WE NEED SEVERAL CRITICAL PIECES. THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET IN THE CHILD PROTECTIVE SYSTEM. YOU CAN'T JUST DO TRAINING. YOU HAVE TO DO TRAINING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MANDATORY REPORTERS WHO KNOW WHAT TO DO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ONGOING REVIEW OF WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE DOING WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRAINED TO DO, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE TIME: TIME TO ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS, TIME TO DO ALL THE INTERVIEWS, TIME TO COORDINATE WITH OTHER PLAYERS IN THE SYSTEM, TIME TO SEEK OUT MEDICAL EXPERTISE. THAT'S THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE BEFORE US. THERE'S A TEMPTATION TO SAY, WELL, WHAT SHOULD WE PICK OFF THIS YEAR AND DO. WELL, LET'S WORK ON MANDATORY REPORTERS AND HOLD OFF ON INCREASING THE STAFFING SO OUR WORKERS HAVE THE TIME TO DO THE WORK RIGHT.

Borg: CAN I TAKE YOU BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER THAN THAT?

Rasmussen: SURE.

Borg: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INTERVENING HERE WHEN CHILD ABUSE IS OCCURRING. IS THERE -- OBVIOUSLY ONE SIZE DOESN'T FIT ALL, AND YOU'VE SAID SILVER BULLET. BUT IS THERE A WAY, YOUR SOLUTION, TO PREVENT CHILD ABUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE OR TO MITIGATE OR TO REDUCE THE INCIDENTS?

Rasmussen: ONE OF THE MOST POSITIVE THINGS THAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO AND WE'D LIKE TO DO MORE OF IS TO GET OUT FRONT, AND THAT MEANS SUPPORTING PARENTS, HELPING THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO RAISE A CHILD. GIVING THEM BASIC INFORMATION, WHETHER OR NOT TO LAY YOUR CHILD ON THEIR BACK OR ON THEIR STOMACH.

Borg: ARE YOU DOING THAT?

Rasmussen: NOT AS MUCH AS WE'D LIKE TO. PREVENTION IS NOT SOMETHING - OUR AGENCY, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WAS CREATED FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTERVENING WHEN THERE'S A CRISIS. IT'S JUST BEEN IN THE LAST TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS THAT WE'VE SAID, "WHOA, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CATCH UP WITH THIS ISSUE IF WE DON'T GET OUT FRONT AND START DOING PREVENTION." SO WE'RE STARTING TO DO IT BUT NOT AS MUCH AS WE'D LIKE TO. CERTAINLY WE HAVE SOME MONEY INVESTED DIRECTLY IN PREVENTION, BUT SOME OF THE EMPOWERMENT WORK THAT'S GOING ON IS ANOTHER WAY THAT PREVENTION IS OCCURRING. WE NEED TO DO MORE.

Glover: I'D LIKE TO GET YOU TO STEP BACK FROM THE EDGE OF THE NEWS FOR JUST A SECOND AND LOOK AT A BIGGER PICTURE. THE QUESTION OF THE STATE INTERVENING IN FAMILY AFFAIRS IS A BASIC, PHILOSOPHICAL, FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. ON ONE SIDE THERE'S THE ARGUMENT, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU'VE MADE, THAT IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, GET THE CHILD OUT WHILE YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONSERVATIVES THAT SAY "THAT'S THE STATE INTERVENING IN A FAMILY'S OWN AFFAIRS." WHAT SHOULD THE BALANCE BE? AT WHAT POINT SHOULD THE STATE INTERVENE IN A FAMILY LIFE?

Rasmussen: SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. THAT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY AND THAT IS OUR CHARGE. WE ARE TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN. SO THAT HAS TO BE OUR FIRST CONCERN, SO WHEN WE GET A CALL AND DETERMINE THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL ABUSE OR NEGLECT SITUATION, WE GO OUT AND DO AN ASSESSMENT. THEN WE HAVE TO DECIDE: IS THE CHILD SAFE IN THE HOME; CAN THE CHILD BE MADE SAFE IN THE HOME; OR ARE WE GOING TO NEED TO REMOVE IN ORDER TO HAVE THE CHILD BE SAFE AND DO SOME THINGS FOR THE HOME IN ORDER TO RETURN THEM TO A SAFE ENVIRONMENT; OR ULTIMATELY, DO WE HAVE TO MOVE THEM TO A SAFE ENVIRONMENT OUTSIDE OF THE HOME ON A PERMANENT BASIS. OUR FIRST CONCERN IS THEIR SAFETY, AND WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT. AND THAT SAFETY COULD BE SUPPORTED IN THE HOME, BUT SOMETIMES IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN BY TAKING THEM OUT OF THE HOME.

Yepsen: WHAT CAN BE DONE TO GET CHILDREN BACK TO FAMILIES WHERE THEY MAYBE HAVE BEEN WRONGFULLY TAKEN? I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION IS "WHEN IN DOUBT, GET THE CHILD OUT." BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PARENTS WHO SAY YOU'RE GRABBING KIDS YOU'VE GOT NO BUSINESS GRABBING. IT TAKES 87 DAYS IN ONE CASE TO GET THE KID BACK HOME. WHAT CAN BE DONE TO SPEED UP AN ADJUDICATION PROCESS SO THAT ONCE YOU GET THE CHILD OUT, YOU CAN QUICKLY MAKE A DETERMINATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ABUSE OR IF A KID NEEDS TO STAY OUT OR CAN IN FACT GO BACK HOME?

Rasmussen: WELL, AT THE COMMITTEE HEARING THE OTHER DAY, THERE WAS A PANEL OF FOLKS, ONE OF WHOM REPRESENTED THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION, HE WAS ASKED THAT QUESTION TOO. AND FIRST OF ALL, HE WOULD SAY FROM HIS EXPERIENCE IN TALKING TO HIS COLLEAGUES, IT'S RARE THAT WE -- THAT CHILDREN ARE TAKEN OUT OF A HOME INAPPROPRIATELY, THAT IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CASES, WE'RE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT OUR DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A CHILD NEEDS TO BE MOVED. AND THE OTHER POINT TO REMEMBER IS WE DON'T REMOVE THE CHILDREN, THE COURTS DO. WE TAKE INFORMATION TO THE COURTS, BUT WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DO THAT. NOW, HOW FAST CAN THE COURTS MOVE DEPENDS UPON THEIR DOCKET, BUT IT ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY THINK NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE CHILD IS SAFE. IF THEY CAN'T -- IF THERE'S CLEARLY ABUSE, IF THERE ARE BROKEN BONES AND THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS CAUSING THEM, THEY MAY WANT TO GET FULL ASSESSMENTS ON PROVIDERS, WHETHER THEY ARE PARENTS OR DAY CARE PROVIDERS, AND THAT TAKES TIME TO DO THAT. WE'D LIKE IT TO GO FASTER THAN 80 DAYS, BUT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO -- OUR PARTNERS IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEMS SYSTEM --

Glover: ONE OF THE BIG CONTROVERSIES IN THIS WHOLE CHILD ABUSE ISSUE IS FOSTER CARE. ONCE THE STATE MOVES IN THROUGH THE COURTS, THROUGH THE DHS, WHATEVER IT TAKES TO JERK A KID OUT OF A HOME, DOESN'T THE STATE HAVE A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT KID IN SOME KIND OF A FOSTER CARE SYSTEM, AND AREN'T THERE IMPROVEMENTS NEEDED THERE?

Rasmussen: I WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE ARE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MAKING A DECISION ABOUT GOING TO THE COURT AND SAYING WE THINK YOU NEED TO EXAMINE WHETHER OR NOT A CHILD IS TAKEN OUT. CHILDREN ARE NOT REMOVED WITHOUT GOOD CAUSE EXCEPT FOR IN VERY RARE SITUATIONS WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION. BUT, YES, THEN WHEN THEY NEED TO GO INTO FOSTER CARE, WE NEED TO HAVE ENOUGH FOSTER CARE HOMES. AND IOWA ACTUALLY IS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF FOSTER CARE HOMES. OUR CHALLENGE HAS COME IN TWO WAYS, WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN HAVE THE RIGHT MATCH OF THE CHILD WITH THE FOSTER HOME. MATCH MAY BE, IF THERE ARE SIBLINGS, CAN WE FIND A HOME THAT WILL TAKE ALL OF THE CHILDREN SO WE CAN KEEP THEM TOGETHER. IF THE CHILD HAS VERY SPECIAL NEEDS IN TERMS OF ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER, CAN WE MATCH THEM UP WITH A FOSTER CARE HOME WHO HAS HAD EXPERIENCE AND HAS EXPERTISE IN CARING FOR THOSE CHILDREN. SO MATCHING IS ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES. AND THE OTHER IS THAT WE PROVIDE THE KIND OF SUPPORT AND TRAINING TO OUR FOSTER CARE HOME SO THEY CAN DO THE BEST POSSIBLE JOB WITH SOME OF THE MOST DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING CHILDREN.

Yepsen: WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF BOYFRIENDS? ABOUT A THIRD OF THE CHILD DEATH CASES IN THIS STATE HAVE INVOLVED A LIVE-IN BOYFRIEND. IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO PROTECT CHILDREN THAT ARE IN THAT KIND OF AN ENVIRONMENT?

Rasmussen: WELL, AS YOU INDICATED FROM YOUR NUMBERS -- AND I'M NOT EVEN SURE IT'S AS HIGH AS A THIRD -- BUT GIVEN THAT, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE ABUSE AND NEGLECT SITUATIONS INVOLVE THE BIOLOGICAL PARENTS. I THINK ANY TIME WHAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO IS HAVE THE TIME TO MAKE FREQUENT VISITS TO THE HOMES TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. THE MERE PRESENCE OF A BOYFRIEND DOESN'T SAY THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ABUSE IN THIS SITUATION, BUT WE NEED TO BE ABLE, ANY TIME THERE'S BEEN AN ALLEGATION OF ABUSE, TO MAKE PERIODIC VISITS EITHER THROUGH US OR BY CONTRACTING WITH PEOPLE THAT CAN CONTINUALLY ASSESS WHAT THE PRESENCE OF ANY PERSON IN THAT HOME IS HAVING ON THE CHILD.

Glover: THE GOVERNOR HAS ASKED THE LEGISLATURE TO APPROVE $8 MILLION FOR NEW ABUSE PREVENTION -- OR NEW ABUSE PROGRAMS, HIRING 98 CASE WORKERS. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN? WHAT WILL YOU DO IF YOU GET THAT?

Rasmussen: WELL, WE'VE PROPOSED THAT WE WOULD DO SEVERAL THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, ASKING FOR APPROXIMATELY 45 OR 50 MORE CLINICAL SUPERVISORS AND ASKING FOR ABOUT 90 MORE SERVICE WORKERS REPRESENTS ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF WHAT WE NEED IN TERMS OF STAFFING TO GET TO THE NATIONAL STANDARDS. BUT WE KNOW IT TAKES MORE THAN STAFF. WE ALSO NEED TRAINING SO WE'RE PROPOSING THAT STAFF HAVE MORE TRAINING. I MENTIONED INVESTIGATORY SKILLS AROUND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, BUT TRAINING FOR OUR NEW WORKERS. WE ALSO KNOW WE NEED TO HAVE TRAINING FOR OUR MANDATORY REPORTERS SO THEY KNOW WHO TO CALL, WHEN TO CALL, AND THEY KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR CALL. AND SO WE PROPOSED SOME ADDITIONAL DOLLARS AROUND THAT. AND FINALLY, WE HAVE LEARNED THAT YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE GOOD TRAINING, YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE GOOD STAFF, BUT YOU HAVE TO CONTINUOUSLY REVIEW TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE APPLYING THE POLICIES AND THE PRACTICES THAT YOU LEARN IN THE TRAINING, EVEN IF YOU DO HAVE THE TIME TO DO IT WELL, SO WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO HAVE ALL OF THOSE PIECES, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED.

Yepsen: FORTY-FIVE SUPERVISORS... WHY NOT GET THEM DOWN IN THE TRENCH WHERE THE WORK IS? WHY DO YOU NEED BUREAUCRATS SHUFFLING PAPER?

Rasmussen: SUPERVISORS ARE IN THE TRENCH. AND THEY ARE LIKE A DOCTOR IS TO A RESIDENT. THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE CONTINUOUS GUIDANCE, COUNSELING. THEY ARE THE EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE, AND THEY ARE THERE TO HELP CONSULT AROUND VERY DIFFICULT DECISIONS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY CAME OUT TO ME IN OUR INVESTIGATIONS OF THE SHELBY DUIS DEATH IS THAT THESE DECISIONS SHOULD NOT BE MADE IN ISOLATION. THEY NEED GOOD CLINICAL SUPERVISION IN ORDER TO MAKE THE BEST POSSIBLE DECISIONS, AND THAT'S WHAT SUPERVISORS DO IN OUR CHILD WELFARE WORLD.

Yepsen: MORE MONEY... EVERY TIME WE HAVE A PROBLEM, WE ALWAYS HEAR WE NEED MORE MONEY. YOU'VE GOT A $2-BILLION BUDGET. THERE ARE 5,800 PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR YOU. CAN'T YOU REALLOCATE SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE AND SOME OF THAT MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF WHAT IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY EMOTIONAL PROBLEM IN OUR STATE?

Rasmussen: YES, AND WE ALREADY HAVE. NO ONE EVER KNOWS THE PROCESS OF OUR COMING UP WITH A BUDGET BECAUSE WE START AS SOON AS THE LEGISLATORS GO HOME TO PREPARE THE BUDGET FOR THE NEXT YEAR. SO WE STARTED IN JUNE. WHEN WE BROUGHT ALL THE ISSUES TO THE TABLE, WHEN WE LISTENED TO ALL THE FOLKS WHO'D COME TO THE HUMAN SERVICE COUNCIL AND SAY WHAT WE NEED, WE CAN'T DO IT ALL. SO WE SPEND OUR TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE REALLOCATE. HOW DO WE TAKE THESE DOLLARS -- IF WE SAY SUBSTANCE ABUSE IS AN ISSUE, HOW DO WE TAKE SOME DOLLARS WE ALREADY HAVE AND TARGET THEM AROUND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID? HOW DO WE TAKE THE REDUCTION IN OUR CASELOADS AROUND INCOME MAINTENANCE AND MOVE SOME OF OUR WORKERS OVER INTO WHERE WE NEED THEM IN CHILD WELFARE? WE'VE ALREADY DONE THAT. AND WE ARE LOOKING AT -- OUR SERVICE WORKERS DEALING WITH CHILD WELFARE ALSO DEAL WITH THE ENROLLMENT OF CHILD CARE. WE'RE LOOKING AT, SHOULD THAT WORK BE SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND THAT HELPS TO REDUCE THE CASELOADS FOR OUR WORKERS. SO REMEMBER WHAT WE'VE ASKED FOR IS ONLY ONE-THIRD OF WHAT WE NEED, AND WE'RE CONTINUING TO TRY AND REALLOCATE, REDESIGN THE WAY WE DO THE BUSINESS SO THAT WE CAN PUT OUR HUMAN RESOURCES WHERE WE NEED THEM THE MOST.

Glover: ONE OF THE KEY PIECES OF THIS WHOLE CHILD PROTECTION SYSTEM IS WHAT'S CALLED TO YOU AS A TERM OF ART, MANDATORY REPORTER: TEACHERS, DOCTORS, NURSES, DAY CARE WORKERS, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKELY TO SEE CHILD ABUSE OR SIGNS OF CHILD ABUSE AT FIRST. THERE'S A LOT OF CRITICISMS THAT THOSE PEOPLE AREN'T TRAINED ENOUGH, DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY SEE SUSPECTED ABUSE. WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE BE BETTER AT WHAT THEY DO?

Rasmussen: WELL, THE LAW PUTS THE AUTHORITY OR THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MANDATORY TRAINING WITH THE EMPLOYER, NOT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES. AND IT ALSO SAYS THAT THEY ONLY NEED IT ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS AND MANY OF --

Glover: IS THAT ENOUGH?

Rasmussen: NO, AND MANY OF THEM ARE GETTING IT BY WATCHING A VIDEO. WE'VE IMPROVED OUR VIDEO THAT WE'VE OFFERED TO PEOPLE TO USE, AND IT'S BETTER. BUT WE BELIEVE THEY REALLY NEED REGULAR INTERACTIVE FACE-TO-FACE TRAINING SO THEY CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND GET GOOD ANSWERS.

Yepsen: BEFORE WE LEAVE THE ABUSE TOPIC, I WANT TO ASK YOU A ABOUT WHAT INDIVIDUALS CAN DO. WE TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU SHOULD DO, AND MIKE HAS TALKED ABOUT MANDATORY REPORTERS, BUT YET ALL OF US HAVE HAD THE EXPERIENCE WITHIN A PARKING LOT OR AT A MALL SEEING SOME KID GETTING KNOCKED AROUND OR IN A SITUATION WHERE WE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE. WHAT SHOULD INDIVIDUAL IOWANS BE DOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM WHERE THEY THINK THEY KNOW ABUSE IS GOING ON?

Rasmussen: WELL, THE FIRST THING IS I HEARD SOMEBODY ACTUALLY SAY THE REAL TRAGEDY IN THIS COUNTRY IS NOT THAT A NEIGHBOR WON'T CALL IN AND REPORT ON WHAT THEY THINK IS CHILD ABUSE, BUT THAT THEY DON'T PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL AND OFFER TO HELP THE NEIGHBOR. SO THE FIRST THING IS CAN WE REACH OUT AND HELP PARENTS THAT ARE STRUGGLING... EVEN IN A PARKING LOT: "WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO HOLD YOUR CHILD WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THE GROCERIES IN THE CAR," OR "WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO WATCH YOUR CHILD WHILE THEY'RE THROWING THEIR TEMPER TANTRUM, AND YOU CAN KIND OF WALK AWAY FOR A FEW MINUTES?" THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN REACH OUT AND HELP PARENTS WITH THE STRESS. THERE'S A GREAT ACTIVITY GOING ON IN AMES WHERE THERE'S A COALITION OF 19 CHURCHES WORKING WITH AN AGENCY TO MATCH PEOPLE UP IN THOSE CHURCHES WITH PEOPLE ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE AND PEOPLE AT RISK, AND JUST REACH OUT AND PROVIDE THAT KIND OF SUPPORT. SO WE CAN DO THINGS IN A NEIGHBORLY COMMUNITY WAY THAT CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. THE OTHER IS KNOWING WHOM TO CALL. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT ABUSE IS OCCURRING. THEIR JOB IS IF THEY THINK IT'S OCCURRING, IT MIGHT BE ABUSE --

Yepsen: WHO DO THEY CALL?

Rasmussen: THEY SHOULD CALL THE HOTLINE FOR CHILD ABUSE. THEY CAN CALL THEIR LOCAL OFFICE, OR THEY CAN CALL THEIR HOTLINE.

Glover: LAST QUESTION ON THE TOPIC.

Rasmussen: YES.

Glover: DID SHELBY DUIS HAVE TO DIE FOR THE STATE TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE EXAMINATION OF THE SYSTEM?

Rasmussen: NO.

Glover: DID IT TAKE THAT KIND OF A TRAGEDY?

Rasmussen: WELL, NO. IN FACT, WE'D BEEN DOING THINGS ALREADY. WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT INVITED A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO COME IN AND DO WHAT WE CALL, IN OUR JARGON, "QUALITY SERVICE REVIEW," WHERE THEY WERE GOING IN AND TRAINING US TO DO PEER REVIEWS, WHERE WE WOULD GO IN AND PULL CASES AND THEN INTERVIEW EVERYBODY IN THAT CASE AND ASK THEM "HOW ARE WE DOING?" WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT AND WE WERE DOING THAT BEFORE THIS TRAGIC DEATH TO TRY AND LEARN HOW TO GET BETTER. WE WERE SELECTED BY THE CLARK FOUNDATION AS ONE OF FOUR STATES TO TRY AND IMPROVE OUR PRACTICE BY ENGAGING A LARGER COMMUNITY IN PROTECTION. SO WE'VE BEEN DOING LOTS OF THINGS. WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE -- AND I THINK IT'S GOOD, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A TRAGEDY, IS THAT WE'VE RAISED THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS ABOUT ABUSE AND WE'VE BROUGHT THIS VERY KIND OF DEBATE TO THE FOREFRONT.

Borg: DO WE ALSO NEED TO REVIEW OUR ADOPTION LAWS? I'M TURNING THE CONVERSATION HERE TO ANOTHER ASPECT OF CHILD WELFARE. THERE ARE TUGS OF WAR THAT CONSTANTLY GO ON. IN FACT, IOWA HAD A HIGHLY PUBLICIZED ONE THAT CAUGHT WORLDWIDE ATTENTION BEFORE YOU CAME TO IOWA. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THAT?

Rasmussen: I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE ARE CHANGES IN LAWS THAT NEED TO BE MADE TODAY. WE'VE DONE REMARKABLY WELL WITH ADOPTION RATES... A 44-PERCENT INCREASE LAST YEAR. ALMOST A 300-PERCENT INCREASE SINCE 1994. SO MORE CHILDREN ARE GETTING TO PERMANENT HOMES. AND I THINK WE'VE HAD FAIRLY GOOD CLEANUP IN OUR LAWS SO THAT THE TERMINATION OF RIGHTS THAT THEN LEADS TO THE AVAILABILITY FOR ADOPTION IS MUCH BETTER THAN IT USED TO BE.

Borg: ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT THERE IS NO BLACK MARKETING OF BABIES IN IOWA?

Rasmussen: I WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IN TERMS OF ABSOLUTES ABOUT THAT. I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EXTENSIVE MARKET GOING ON THERE. WHETHER OR NOT IT HAPPENS IN SOME CASES MAY BE. WE'RE NOT AWARE OF AN EXTENSIVE PROBLEM IN THIS AREA.

Yepsen: MS. RASMUSSEN, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'VE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR IN THAT DEPARTMENT IS YOUR USE OF CONSULTANTS... ORAL CONTRACTS, I'M THINKING OF THE PAUL CODY CONTRACT. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THIS TO CORRECT THIS PROBLEM TO ANSWER THIS CRITICISM THAT YOU'RE USING TOO MANY CONSULTANTS?

Rasmussen: ABOUT TEN MONTHS AGO IN OUR DEPARTMENT, WE KNOW THAT WE DO A LOT OF CONTRACTS. VERY FEW OF THEM ARE WITH WHAT YOU WOULD TRADITIONALLY CALL THE CONSULTANTS, THE ONES WE'VE BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH LATELY. WE USE A LOT OF CONTRACTS WITH OUR PROVIDERS That DELIVER SERVICES. WE USE A LOT OF CONTRACTS AS A WAY TO GET SHORT-TERM WORK DONE IN OUR AGENCY. BUT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A CONSULTANT OR A WORK THAT'S -- SHORT-TERM WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, WE BELIEVE WE HAVE TO BE VERY RESPONSIBLE ABOUT HOW WE DO THAT. ABOUT TEN MONTHS AGO WE STARTED WORKING WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TO ESTABLISH SOME VERY CLEAR CRITERIA AROUND WHEN WE SELF-SOURCE, AROUND WHEN WE BID OUT, SOME VERY CLEAR CRITERIA ABOUT WHEN WE SHOULD CONTRACT, WHEN WE SHOULD DO IT IN-HOUSE. IN FACT, AS A RESULT OF THAT, HAVE ALREADY MOVED SOME OF OUR CONTRACT EMPLOYEES INTO FTE POSITIONS BECAUSE IT'S LESS MONEY FOR THE STATE. AND WE HAVE ANOTHER PROPOSAL INTO THE LEGISLATURE TO CONTINUE TO MOVE SOME OF OUR CONTRACT PEOPLE INTO FTEs. I THINK THERE STILL IS WORK THAT IS SO SPECIALIZED THAT REQUIRES THE KIND OF EXPERTISE AND IS SHORT TERM IN THE LONG RUN THAT WE STILL NEED TO HAVE THE AVAILABILITY OF CALLING UPON CONSULTANTS, BUT WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE ARRANGEMENT.

Yepsen: ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE CHANGES YOU'VE MADE ARE GOING TO FIX THIS PROBLEM?

Rasmussen: YES, I AM.

Yepsen: WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE GOING THROUGH THIS WITH YOU AGAIN?

Rasmussen: RIGHT.

Glover: ANOTHER ISSUE THAT'S BEEN TAKING PLACE BOTH ON THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL IS WELFARE REFORM. THE LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED A WELFARE REFORM BILL. CONGRESS HAS PASSED A WELFARE REFORM BILL. GIVE US A REPORT CARD ON WHERE THE STATE STANDS IN WELFARE REFORM. ARE WE GETTING PEOPLE OFF THE WELFARE ROLLS? ARE WE DOWN TO THE HARD CORE ON WELFARE? WHERE DO WE STAND?

Rasmussen: WE'RE DOING VERY WELL PARTLY BECAUSE IOWA GOT STARTED A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE FEDERAL WELFARE REFORM, BUT IOWA WAS EIGHTH IN THE NATION LAST YEAR IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE WORKING THAT WERE STILL RECEIVING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE. WE WERE 17TH IN THE NATION IN TERMS OF TWO-PARENT FAMILIES WORKING. WE'VE MOVED PEOPLE OFF THE ROLLS DRAMATICALLY, 37-PERCENT REDUCTION. SO WE'VE HAD CONSIDERABLE SUCCESS IN MOVING PEOPLE OFF OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE INTO WORK. THE CHALLENGE THAT NOW REMAINS BEFORE US: ARE WE MOVING PEOPLE TO SELF-SUFFICIENCY? THEY'RE GETTING JOBS BUT THEY'RE GETTING JOBS AT MINIMUM WAGE, WHICH STILL MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO MAKE ENDS MEET, AND MANY OF THEM STILL NEED SUPPORT SYSTEMS LIKE CHILD CARE AND HEALTH CARE.

Glover: LONG TERM, CAN THEY SUCCEED IF YOU'RE MOVING THEM INTO MINIMUM WAGE JOBS THAT LACK THOSE SUPPORT SYSTEMS.

Rasmussen: I THINK WHAT IT MEANS IS WE HAVE TO START DOING THE BUSINESS THAT WE HAVEN'T DONE A LOT OF BEFORE, AND THAT IS NOT ONLY GET PEOPLE INTO JOBS, BUT HELP THEM STAY IN THOSE JOBS AND MOVE UP IN THOSE JOBS OR MOVE TO OTHER JOBS THAT PAY MORE. THAT'S A NEW KIND OF WORK FORCE.

Yepsen: HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN IS AN ISSUE. THERE'S A COUPLE PROGRAMS AROUND TO HELP GET KIDS SOME HEALTH INSURANCE AND HEALTH CARE, AND YET THOSE PROGRAMS SEEM TO BE UNDERUTILIZED IN IOWA. OUR SIGN-UP RATES ARE BELOW NATIONAL AVERAGE. WHAT'S BEING DONE TO PROVIDE MORE AND BETTER HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN IN THE STATE?

Rasmussen: WHEN I CAME INTO THIS JOB, THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CONCERNS I HIT WAS THAT WE HAD A PROGRAM AVAILABLE AND NOBODY WAS SIGNING UP. SO WE DID TWO THINGS IMMEDIATELY. ONE IS WE MOVED FROM SORT OF A CENTRALIZED STATE MEDIA APPROACH TO PUTTING THE DOLLARS THAT WE HAD FOR ADMINISTRATION AT THE LOCAL LEVEL TO CREATE COMMUNITY COUNCILS, TO DO OUTREACH AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAMS, PUBLIC HEALTH, THE SCHOOLS, ANYBODY WE COULD. AND BASICALLY, THE MESSAGE WAS "GO WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE RATHER THAN WAIT IN YOUR OFFICE FOR THEM TO COME TO YOU." THE SECOND THING WE DID WAS BEGIN TO STREAMLINE OUR PROCESSES. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICAID. YOU HAVE TO USE MEDICAID. YOU CAN'T USE THESE NEW DOLLARS, WHICH WE CALL HAWKEYE --

Yepsen: EXCUSE ME, ARE THESE PROGRAMS WORKING? ARE YOU GETTING PEOPLE SIGNED UP?

Rasmussen: YES. WE'VE GONE FROM 800 CHILDREN A YEAR AGO SIGNED UP FOR THE HAWKEYE PROGRAM TO ABOUT 9,000 CHILDREN SIGNED UP FOR HAWKEYE. WHEN YOU TAKE THE EXPANDED MEDICAID AND THE HAWKEYE PROGRAM, WE NOW HAVE ABOUT 15,000 CHILDREN THAT ARE SIGNED UP.

Yepsen: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ARE YET TO GO?

Rasmussen: WELL, THAT TAKES US -- PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE NUMBERS THAT WE WERE GIVEN AROUND 40- OR 50,000 CHILDREN WERE EXTRAPOLATIONS THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SO WE WERE QUESTIONING ABOUT HOW RELIABLE THOSE ARE. BUT WE THINK WE'RE PROBABLY 40 TO 50 PERCENT OF THE WAY.

Glover: ONE OF THE CONTROVERSIES FACING THE STATE IS DIVERSITY AND IMMIGRATION, BRINGING NEW PEOPLE INTO THE STATE. WHAT SHOULD YOUR AGENCY BE DOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR IMMIGRANTS COMING INTO IOWA TO ASSIMILATE TO THIS STATE? OR ARE THERE PROGRAMS NEEDED, NEW EFFORTS NEEDED ON YOUR PART?

Rasmussen: WELL, OUR AGENCY HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN THE SUPPORT SYSTEMS THAT IMMIGRANTS NEED WHEN THEY FIRST COME HERE. IF THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB WHEN THEY FIRST ARRIVE, THEY FREQUENTLY NEED SOME OF THE SERVICES THAT WE HAVE IN TERMS OF MEDICAL SERVICES, IN TERMS OF OUR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS, OUR FOOD STAMP PROGRAMS, TO GET STARTED. OUR REFUGEE PROGRAM IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY. THAT'S REFUGEES, NOT IMMIGRANTS. IT'S A DIFFERENT POPULATION. BUT WE ARE THERE AS A COMPLEMENTARY SYSTEM IN THE COMMUNITY TO HELP SUPPORT IMMIGRANTS WHEN THEY COME.

Yepsen: ONE OF THE CRITICISMS WE HEAR OF IMMIGRANTS COMING TO IOWA IS THAT, "WELL, THESE IMMIGRANTS COME IN AND THEY JUST GO ON WELFARE AND LIVE OFF THE REST OF US." DO YOU SEE THAT? IS THAT TRUE?

Rasmussen: NO, I THINK THAT'S NOT TRUE. I REFERENCE OUR SYSTEM AS A SUPPORT SYSTEM TO PEOPLE WHO ARRIVE HERE WHO DON'T HAVE JOBS. BUT MANY OF THEM ARRIVE, GO TO WORK, AND HAVE THOSE JOBS. OUR JOB IS AROUND THOSE SUPPORT SYSTEMS WHEN PEOPLE CAN'T MAKE ENDS MEET. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE GOING ONTO PUBLIC ASSISTANCE. IN FACT, I THINK THE DATA WOULD SHOW THAT THEY ARE A SIGNIFICANT PART OF OUR WORKING PRODUCTIVE COMMUNITY.

Borg: TALKING ABOUT JOBS, WHAT ABOUT YOUR OWN? IT'S BEEN A ROUGH YEAR, AS I SAID UP FRONT OF THIS PROGRAM. ARE YOU GOING TO STAY IN THE JOB?

Rasmussen: OH, ABSOLUTELY. I CAME HERE NOT TO BE A MANAGER OF STATUS QUO. I CAME HERE BECAUSE THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY AND A WILLINGNESS TO CHANGE. I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU GO ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE CHANGES, THERE'S USUALLY SOME NOISE. THEY SAY THE ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD THAT REALLY WELCOMES CHANGE IS A BABY WITH A WET DIAPER. SO I KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO HAVE THOSE BATTLES.

Borg: THANK YOU FOR BEING OUR GUEST TODAY. ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF IOWA PRESS, THE FOCUS REMAINS ON THE IOWA STATEHOUSE. WE REVIEW THE FIRST THREE WEEKS OF THE 79TH IOWA GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH STATEHOUSE REPORTERS WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE SESSION OF 2001. THEY'LL BE HERE AT THE IOWA PRESS TABLE TO TALK OVER WHAT'S TRANSPIRED AND WHAT'S EXPECTED BETWEEN NOW AND THE COMPLETION OF THE SCHEDULED 110-DAY SESSION, NEXT SUNDAY AT NOON AND 7:00. THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF IOWA PRESS. I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH NEXT WEEK. UNTIL THEN, I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

Narrator: FUNDING FOR IOWA PRESS HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; BY THE ASSOCIATION OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY... THE VOICE OF IOWA BUSINESS, REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF OVER 1,500 IOWA BUSINESSES EMPLOYING 300,000 IOWANS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.