Iowa Public Television

Narrator: FUNDING FOR "IOWA PRESS" HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS,AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; BY THE ASSOCIATION OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY... THE VOICE OF IOWA BUSINESS,REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF OVER 1,500 IOWA BUSINESSES EMPLOYING 300,000 IOWANS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. THIS IS THE SUNDAY, MAY 13 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: LAST TUESDAY, AFTER 121 DAYS, THE IOWA LEGISLATURE ADJOURNED. THE ANALYSIS FROM THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WAS HARSH, TO SAY THE LEAST. THE SESSION OF 2001 WAS ONE OF THE MOST CONTENTIOUS IN RECENT MEMORY, AND PERHAPS THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED WITH REPUBLICANS CONTROLLING THE LEGISLATURE AND THE DEMOCRATS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. IT'S CERTAIN THAT LEGISLATORS WILL RETURN TO THE STATEHOUSE, OR SOMEWHERE AROUND THE STATEHOUSE, AT LEAST ONCE DURING THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO CONSIDER REDISTRICTING PLAN NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS DUE OUT FROM THE LEGISLATIVE SERVICE BUREAU BY JUNE 9. AND GOVERNOR TOM VILSACK HAS UNTIL JUNE 7 TO ACT ON THE BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR 2002 THAT WAS PASSED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN THE WANING HOURS. A SPECIAL LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO REWORK THE BUDGET ISN'T OUT OF THE QUESTION. IT'S APPARENT THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF POLITICAL INTRIGUE IN ALL OF THIS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE CONVENED OUR "IOWA PRESS" POLITICAL REPORTERS WHO KNOW THE ISSUES AND THE PERSONALITIES INVOLVED. DAVID YEPSEN OF "THE DES MOINES REGISTER," JOYCE RUSSELL OF "WOI PUBLIC RADIO," MIKE GLOVER OF "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS," AND KATHIE OBRADOVICH OF "THE LEE NEWSPAPERS." KATHIE, I JUST SAID THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T LIKE IT. IN FACT, HE'S VERY ANGRY AND HE DIDN'T HOLD BACK ANY WORDS IN SAYING SO. WHAT'S LIKELY TO HAPPEN NEXT?

Obradovich: WELL, DEAN, FOR THOSE OF US WHO AREN'T TIRED YET OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THEY'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE BACK. THEY HAVE TO BE BACK, AS YOU SAID, TO PASS A REDISTRICTING PLAN. I'D SAY IT'S STILL AN OPEN QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO CALL THEM BACK TO ASK THEM TO REWORK THE ENTIRE BUDGET. HE GOT A NUMBER OF THE THINGS THAT HE WANTED IN THE BUDGET, NOT ENTIRELY EVERYTHING HE WANTED, BUT HE GOT SOME EXTRA SOCIAL WORKERS FOR HUMAN SERVICES, ET CETERA. AND HE HAS TO CONSIDER WHETHER HE GOT ALL HE CAN. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HE'LL PROBABLY TAKE HIS FULL 30 DAYS TO DECIDE.

Borg: JOYCE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Russell: AND I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE HE GOT ALL HE CAN. I MEAN THE INTRANSIGENCE WAS PALPABLE, AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE IN BOTH PARTIES ARE SAYING, "YOU CAN CALL US BACK, BUT THIS REALLY ISN'T GOING TO GO ANY FURTHER THAN IT'S GONE."

Glover: THERE ARE TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT, DEAN, AND BOTH, INCIDENTALLY, ARE POLITICAL SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT. ONE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT IS THAT TOM VILSACK OUGHT TO USE THE BILL CLINTON MODEL. REMEMBER WHEN BILL CLINTON AND A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS HAD THE SHOWDOWN? THE GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN AND BILL CLINTON CAME OUT OF THAT SMELLING LIKE A ROSE. HE PROBABLY GOT REELECTED BECAUSE OF IT. THERE'S A FACTION ARGUING THAT VILSACK OUGHT TO DO THE SAME THING, OUGHT TO PULL THE LEGISLATURE BACK SOMETIME IN JUNE AND KNOCK DOWN SOME BUDGET BILLS, SAY, "WE'RE GOING TO STAND UP, WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU TO DO THE RIGHT THING. IF IT MEANS GOVERNMENT SHUTS DOWN, SO BE IT." THERE'S A MORE REASONABLE FACTION THAT'S SAYING EXACTLY WHAT JOYCE HAS SAID: LOOK, YOU'VE GOT YOUR $40 MILLION FOR TEACHER PAY; YOU'VE GOT YOUR EXTRA SOCIAL WORKERS, AS KATHIE MENTIONED; YOU DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT; YOU GOT ABOUT THREE-FOURTHS OF IT; COMPLAIN; YOU GOT YOUR ISSUE FOR THE NEXT ELECTION; LET IT GO. I THINK PROBABLY WHEN THE LAST THING IS SAID AND DONE AND THE DAY IS DONE, THAT'S WHERE THINGS WILL END UP.

Borg: A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE URGING THE GOVERNOR TO REJECT AND CALL BACK AND TRY FOR A BETTER DEAL. IS THAT GOING TO INFLUENCE ANY LEGISLATORS?

Glover: LEGISLATORS OF HIS OWN PARTY HAVE TOLD HIM, "IF YOU CALL THIS LEGISLATURE BACK, GIVEN THE CURRENT NASTY, PETULANT, PARTISAN MOOD UP THERE, THEY JUST MAY COME IN AND, INSTEAD OF GIVING YOU 75 SOCIAL WORKERS, MAY CUT IT TO 50."

Yepsen: YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT MORE MONEY, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE STATE IS OUT. THEY'RE BROKE. IT'S AT ZERO AND THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. I THINK MIKE IS RIGHT ON THE POLITICS OF THIS THING. I THINK ON THE POLICY END OF THIS THING, IT SERVED TOM VILSACK WELL TO HAVE A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE UP THERE CUTTING THE BUDGET, BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU, I DON'T THINK THIS BUDGET IS GOING TO GET MUCH BETTER NEXT YEAR. REVENUES ARE GOING TO BE TIGHT. WE'RE LOOKING AT $3 GAS. THE ECONOMY IS STILL SPUTTERING HERE A LITTLE BIT. THAT MEANS IT'S NOT GOING TO THROW OFF AS MUCH IN TAX REVENUES. SO THEY'RE GOING TO COME BACK NEXT SESSION WITH LOW REVENUES,AND THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPENDITURES NEXT YEAR THAT THEY'VE ALREADY BUILT IN THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY OFF. SO TO GET THE PAIN OUT OF THE WAY THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO NEXT YEAR, AN ELECTION YEAR, IS PROBABLY POLITICALLY A GOOD THING FOR THE GOVERNOR.

Glover: AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DAVE MENTIONED I THINK THAT IS TERRIBLY RELEVANT TO WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IS THE PROBLEM THEY HAD THIS YEAR WAS THE ECONOMY WAS SOFT. THAT $3 GAS YOU MENTIONED, EVERYBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT THE VACATION SEASON THIS SUMMER, HOW TIGHT IT'S GOING TO BE, HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SCALING BACK THEIR VACATION PLANS. WELL, FARMERS HAVE GOT TO PUT THAT GASOLINE IN THEIR TRACTORS. THAT'S GOING TO BUILD-UP AND IT'S GOING TO GO INTO FERTILIZER COSTS, CHEMICAL COST, FARM PRODUCTION COSTS ARE GOING TO GO UP SIGNIFICANTLY THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THAT. FARM PRICES ARE NOT ALL THAT GREAT. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A BAD YEAR FOR FARMERS, A BAD YEAR FOR STATE REVENUES. IT MAY BE EVEN WORSE NEXT YEAR AS FAR AS THE ECONOMY GOES.

Russell: EVEN IF STATE REVENUES WERE TO REBOUND A LITTLE BIT, THE BUDGET WAS ALREADY GOING TO BE TIGHT,AND SO ALL OF THESE ECONOMIC FACTORS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE ECONOMY DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S GOING TO GET BETTER.

Obradovich: THAT DOESN'T MEAN, THOUGH, THAT THE GOVERNOR WON'T ASK THEM TO DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN REDISTRICTING IN A SPECIAL SESSION. THERE WERE A COUPLE OF POLICY ISSUES THAT WERE LEFT ON THE TABLE THAT WEREN'T GOING TO COST THE STATE ANY MONEY. HE COULD, FOR EXAMPLE, ASK THEM TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT WHETHER TO CHARGE BUSINESSES A SURCHARGE THAT WE KEEP WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT CENTERS OPEN IN RURAL IOWA. THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT THEY WERE REAL CLOSE TO HAVING AN AGREEMENT. SOME SAY THEY DID HAVE AN AGREEMENT, AND THE SENATE JUST LEFT IT ON THE TABLE AT THE END OF THE SESSION. THAT WOULD BE A REAL EASY THING TO FIX.

Borg: WELL, KATHIE, DAVE AND THE REST OF THEM HERE, DAVE OPENED THAT THOUGHT, THAT THE GOVERNOR REALLY CAME OUT AHEAD AND WAS FORTUNATE THAT THE REPUBLICANS -- HE DIDN'T SAY IT THIS WAY, BUT I THINK HE MEANT HAD TO DO THE DIRTY WORK IN DOING THE CUTTING, AND TOM VILSACK CAN SIT BACK AND SAY THEY DID IT. DID HE COME OUT AHEAD POLITICALLY IN THIS SESSION?

Obradovich: I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR IS SITTING IN TERRACE HILL UNHAPPY RIGHT NOW THAT HE HAD A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE. WHEN IT'S TIME TO CUT BUDGETS, THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO CUT THE BUDGETS ARE THE REPUBLICANS. THEY RUN ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, SO THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE MOST OF THE POLITICAL HEAT, IF THERE IS ANY, FOR SERVICES THAT GET CUT. SO, YEAH, HE DEFINITELY DODGED A BULLET. HE HAD TO CUT BUDGETS BUT THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TAKE ALL THE HEAT. SO IN THAT SENSE, HE DID COME OUT AHEAD.

Glover: I THINK EVERYBODY -- AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE KEYS TO THIS SESSION. I THINK EVERYBODY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED. YOU CAN ARGUE ABOUT WHETHER THEY KNEW WHAT WAS BEST FOR THEM, BUT I THINK THEY ALL GOT WHAT THEY WANTED. TOM VILSACK GOT HIS ISSUE. HE CAN NOW GO TO ALL THESE INTEREST GROUPS -- THE TEACHERS, THE SOCIAL WORKERS, ALL THOSE KINDS OF PEOPLE -- AND SAY, "I FOUGHT FOR YOU. I WAS THERE PUSHING FOR SPENDING FOR YOU. IT WAS THEM THAT DID IT TO YOU." REPUBLICANS CAN GO TO TIR BASE, FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, IOWANS FOR TAX RELIEF, AND SAY, "SEE, WE STOOD UP, WE CUT TAXES. WE HELD THE LINE ON NO MORE TAX INCREASES. THE LAST TWO TIMES THE STATE WAS IN THIS KIND OF A MESS, WE RAISED THE SALES TAX, AND WE RESISTED THAT THIS TIME. WE'RE THE REAL FISCAL CONSERVATIVES." I THINK THEY ALL THOUGHT THEY WON.

Russell: AND I THINK THAT THE REPUBLICANS WERE UNUSUALLY FRANK ABOUT THEIR INTENTIONS TO MAKE THAT A POLITICAL ISSUE AGAINST GOVERNOR VILSACK IN THE NEXT ELECTION. AND THEY SAID THAT THEY WANTED THE SESSION, "THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR ISSUE," AND THEY HAMMERED AWAY AT IT.

Yepsen: IN FACT, DEAN, THERE WAS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT WITH A LOT OF REPUBLICANS THAT THEY OUGHT TO JUST GIVE TOM VILSACK EVERYTHING HE WANTS. TAKE HIS BUDGET AND PASS IT RIGHT DOWN TO THE COMMAS, BECAUSE THAT MAKES THE BUDGET HIS RESPONSIBILITY. IT DOES ENABLE HIM TO DO WHAT KATHIE IS TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS TO POINT THE FINGER AT SOMEBODY ELSE. COOLER HEADS, SHALL WE SAY, POLICY WONKS INSIDE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PREVAILED. THEY SAID, "LOOK, WE'RE BROKE. WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY. WE'VE GOT TO SHUT DOWN THE TAPS." IT DIDN'T LOOK VERY PRETTY, BUT FROM A FISCAL STANDPOINT, IT WAS NECESSARY.

Obradovich: THERE IS ONE SOFT SPOT, THOUGH, IN REPUBLICANS' CLAIM OF FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY IN LIVING WITHIN THEIR MEANS, AND THAT WAS THAT THEY WENT INTO OTHER PARTS OF THE BUDGET. THEY SHIFTED MONEY. THEY DID THINGS THAT THEY SAID THEY WEREN'T GOING TO DO. THEY SHIFTED MONEY OFF BUDGET SO THAT THEY COULD SPEND MORE, INCLUDING TAPPING INTO A BRAND-NEW TOBACCO SECURITIZATION FUND THAT FOREVER AFTER FROM NOW ON IS JUST GOING TO BE A BIG SLUSH FUND FOR EXTRA SPENDING.

Borg: BECAUSE THE LOCK IS BROKEN?

Yepsen: WHICH IS ONE REASON WHY NEXT YEAR WILL BE AN EVEN MORE DIFFICULT FINANCIAL SESSION BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT TO GO IN AND THEY'VE GOT TO PAY THAT MONEY BACK. IT'S ONLY A ONE-YEAR THING. THEY PAY INTEREST ON IT.

Glover: WELL, THEY BORROWED FROM IT THIS YEAR. WHY CAN'T THEY BORROW FROM IT NEXT YEAR?

Yepsen: WELL, YOU CAN ROLL IT OVER, CONCEIVABLY. I WANT TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A CONTRARY VIEW HERE. YES, THEY ALL FEEL LIKE THEY GOT SOMETHING OUT OF THIS SESSION, BUT I THINK IN THE BIG PICTURE, THEY ALL LOOK KIND OF BAD. I HAVE A SENSE THAT VOTERS OUT THERE, THEY DON'T WATCH THE EBB AND FLOW AND THE NUANCE OF THIS STUFF QUITE THE WAY WE DO, AND YET THEY HAVE A SENSE THAT PEOPLE IN DES MOINES ARE FIGHTING. AND I DON'T THINK ANY POLITICIAN IN IOWA LOOKS PARTICULARLY GOOD WHEN HE'S QUARRELING ALL THE TIME. I DON'T THINK VOTERS LIKE THAT. THEY SEND PEOPLE -- THEY SEND THE HIRED HELP TO GET THE JOB DONE. IF THEY'RE DOWN IN THE BUNKHOUSE FIGHTING, THEY DON'T LIKE IT.

Borg: BUT VOTERS DO NOTICE, DAVE, WHEN SOME STATE PARKS OR AREAS OF STATE PARKS ARE CLOSING, WHEN THERE'S HIGHER TUITION TO GO TO THESE STATE UNIVERSITIES AND THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES, POSSIBLE LAYOFFS AMONG STATE WORKERS AND SO ON. THAT EFFECT AFFECTS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE GOING TO THE VOTING BOOTH. AND THEN WILL THE REPUBLICANS GET THE BLAME?

Yepsen: MAYBE, BUT WE'LL SEE. A LOT OF THIS HAS BEEN CHICKEN LITTLISM. THE AGENCIES SAY, "OH, MY GOD, YOU CUT MY BUDGET. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO LAY OFF HALF THE HIGHWAY PATROL." AND THEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. SO I THINK A LOT OF AGENCY MANAGERS NOW LOOKING AT THESE BUDGETS ARE GOING TO TRY TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND MANAGE IT. SO MAYBE THE HOURS AT THE PARKS WILL BE SHORTER, AND MAYBE THERE WON'T BE SO MANY PEOPLE LAID OFF. THEY MAY BE ABLE TO DO IT THROUGH ATTRITION. AND SUDDENLY ALL OF THESE HORRIBLE BUDGET CUTS THAT PEOPLE WERE WARNING ABOUT, THEY DON'T MATERIALIZE. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW SOME OF THIS PLAYS OUT.

Russell: AND I THINK SOME OF THE HARSHEST RHETORIC FROM THE DEMOCRATS WAS ABOUT FUNDING, CUTS FOR EDUCATION, CUTS TO THE REGENTS WHEN, IN FACT, THE REPUBLICAN BUDGETS DIDN'T CUT THE REGENTS THAT MUCH MORE THAN GOVERNOR VILSACK'S BUDGET RECOMMENDED CUTTING THE REGENTS.

Yepsen: YEAH, EVERYBODY WANTS TO CUT THE REGENTS.

Borg: I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, JOYCE. WAS EDUCATION A WINNER IN THIS SESSION? IT WAS GOING TO BE THE EDUCATION SESSION. IN THE WANING DAYS OF THE SESSION, EDUCATION COALITION, TEACHERS, SCHOOL BOARDS, SUPERINTENDENTS ASSOCIATION, AND THE REST OF THEM SAID, "LEAVE US ALONE. WHAT YOU'VE GOT PENDING UP THERE, WE DON'T EVEN WANT. FORGET IT."

Russell: WELL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLAN TO REVAMP THE WAY TEACHERS ARE PAID AND THAT, OF COURSE, TURNED OUT TO BE VERY CONTROVERSIAL. BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO PUT THE EDUCATION SPENDING IN PERSPECTIVE WHEN YOU COMPARE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE IOWA LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR TO WHAT HAPPENED IN OTHER STATES WHERE THEY'RE ALSO HAVING BUDGET SHORTFALLS. THE BASIC EDUCATION TO SCHOOLS WAS CUT IN THOSE OTHER STATES. IN SOME OF THE SOUTHERN STATES, BIG CUTS IN THE BASIC SCHOOL AID. IOWA SCHOOLS GOT A 4-PERCENT RAISE IN THEIR BASIC SCHOOL AID.

Glover: I THINK YOU NEED TO DIVIDE IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER EVEN IN LOOKING AT IT. YOU HAVE TO DIVIDE IT INTO K-12 EDUCATION -- THAT'S EDUCATION -- AND THEN HIGHER EDUCATION. HIGHER EDUCATION TOOK A BIG HIT THIS YEAR, AN ACTUAL CUT OVER LAST YEAR. AND THAT'S BECAUSE, POLITICALLY, THERE'S A SENSE AT THE LEGISLATURE THAT THEY'VE BEEN OVERLY GOOD AND THAT IOWA TUITIONS HAVE BEEN ARTIFICIALLY HELD BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE AND MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR STUDENTS TO START PAYING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE COST OF THEIR HIGHER EDUCATION. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AGREE ON. NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT JUST K-12, THEY DID PRETTY WELL, GIVEN THIS WAS A YEAR FOR CUTTING BUDGETS. THEY DIDN'T DO BAD AT ALL.

Obradovich: AND YOU MENTIONED, DEAN, THAT THE TEACHERS WERE UPSET. AT THE END OF THE SESSION, WHAT THEY CAME OUT WITH WAS $40 MILLION FOR SALARIES, MOST OF WHICH -- WELL, AT LEAST $30 MILLION FOR SALARIES THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD OTHERWISE. THEY'RE UPSET ABOUT SOME OF THE POLICY THINGS THAT WENT ALONG WITH IT, BUT THEY'VE GOT AT LEAST TWO YEARS BEFORE THAT IS GOING TO BE FULLY IMPLEMENTED TO COME BACK AND ASK THE LEGISLATURE TO CHANGE THAT. THE $40 MILLION ISN'T GOING TO GO AWAY, SO THEY CAME OUT AHEAD.

Yepsen: YEAH, I THINK PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH EDUCATORS IN THIS STATE IS THAT WE'RE CHANGING THE WAY WE PAY TEACHERS IN THIS STATE. IF ALL OF A SUDDEN OUR BOSSES CAME INTO THE NEWSROOMS AND SAID, "WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE PAY YOU, WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE EVALUATE YOUR PERFORMANCE," THERE WOULD BE SOME JITTERS.

Russell: WE'D BE SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER.

Yepsen: AS LONG AS THERE WAS MORE MONEY, I WOULDN'T. BUT, IN REALITY, I THINK TEACHERS ARE JUST A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS, AND I THINK THAT'S SOME OF WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE, IN FACT, THAT NEW PAY PLAN, IF IT WORKS, IT COULD REALLY BE A LANDMARK PIECE OF LEGISLATION. BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

Glover: YOU HAVE TO LOOK BACK. SOMETIMES YOU LOOK BACK A FEW MONTHS LATER AFTER THE END OF THE SESSION AND YOU LOOK AT WHAT PEOPLE SAID AND YOU CAN PICK OUT LITTLE KERNELS THAT KIND OF SUM UP WHAT THEY REALLY THINK. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT EVERYBODY SAID AS THEY WERE CLOSING DOWN THIS YEAR'S SESSION, THEY MADE JUST THAT POINT. THE TEACHER PAY THING IS WHAT THIS LEGISLATURE WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR AND NOT THE $40 MILLION. THE FACT THAT WE'VE ENDED A SENIORITY-BASED PAY SYSTEM AND GONE TO A SYSTEM THAT'S BASED PART ON PROFESSIONAL ADVANCEMENT, EVENTUALLY PART ON STUDENT PERFORMANCE, PART ON ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS, IS REALLY A HISTORIC CHANGE IN THE WAY WE DO THINGS IN THIS STATE, IF THAT POLICY HOLDS UP OVER THE TEST OF THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

Borg: OTHER THAN EDUCATION, WERE THERE SOME LOSERS AND OTHER PEOPLE -- ON ISSUES NOW -- WHO WON DURING THIS SESSION THAT YOU CAN SPECIFY?

Yepsen: WELL, IT'S A LITTLE BIT EARLY YET. I THINK THE UTILITY INDUSTRY TOOK A HIT. THEY WANTED A PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SITE NEW POWER PLANTS. THIS IS ONE OF THESE BILLS THAT MAY COME UP IN THE SPECIAL SESSION. EVERYBODY UP THERE SAYS, "WE KNOW WE HAVE TO BUILD MORE POWER PLANTS IN IOWA. WE RUN OUT IN 2003." BUT THEY JUST WEREN'T ABLE TO REACH A COMPROMISE UNTIL THE VERY END. SO IF THEY CAN WORK THAT OUT HERE IN THE INTERIM BETWEEN NOW AND THE SPECIAL SESSION, THAT MIGHT MAKE THE UTILITY INDUSTRY A WINNER, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TO SAY THEY'RE ON THE LOSER SIDE.

Borg: MIKE?

Glover: AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS, I THINK, BOTH ENDED UP AS A LOSER IN THIS, BECAUSE YOU HAD THE ANTI-BOTTLE BILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO SCRAP THE BOTTLE BILL WE HAVE NOW AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE. THEY WERE UNABLE TO GET ANYTHING ACCOMPLISHED, YET THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS WHO WANTED TO EXPAND THE BOTTLE BILL, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET ANYWHERE ELSE. WHAT YOU HAD WAS TWO GROUPS HEAD ON HEAD, BANGING, NO TALK OF COMPROMISE, NO LET'S SIT ON THE TABLE AND SEE IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE CAN WORK ALL THIS OUT AND MAKE THIS AN ACCEPTABLE PLAN, SO I THINK BOTH OF THOSE GROUPS ENDED UP LOSERS.

Borg: NOW, OTHER THAN THOSE ISSUES -- AND IN THE SPECIAL SESSION THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO COME, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE CONSIDERING THE BOTTLE BILL, BUT ARE THERE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT MAY COME UP IN ADDITION TO REDISTRICTING THERE THAT YOU WANT TO SPECIFY? KATHIE MENTIONED, A MOMENT AGO,ONE.

Obradovich: WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT. BUT DAVID MENTIONED THE ELECTRIC PLANT SITING, AND THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. I MEAN THERE IS A UTILITY OUT THERE THAT HAS PROMISED TO BUILD AN ELECTRIC PLANT IN IOWA. THAT OFFER WILL PROBABLY EXPIRE IF THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. IT'S TYPICAL CORPORATE BLACKMAIL AGAIN. BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY KEEP TRYING TO DO THAT. I WOULDN'T SEE THEM TRYING TO OPEN UP A LOT OF NEW ISSUES, THOUGH, DURING A SPECIAL SESSION.

Yepsen: ON THAT UTILITY BILL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAD A COUPLE MEMBERS WHO HAD GONE TO CUBA. THEY WERE ON SOME TRADE DEAL DOWN THERE, $6,000 A TICKET. THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GIVE IT UP, SO THEY CUT OUT EARLY. WELL, WERE THEY PLAYING HOOKY? I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT WAS TWO VOTES THAT LEADERSHIP DID NOT HAVE TO PASS THE UTILITY BILL. WHEN THEY GET EVERYBODY BACK TO WORK, MAYBE THEY'LL HAVE THE VOTES TO PUT IT OVER THE TOP.

Glover: THAT AGAIN IS AN ISSUE WHERE, AS WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ON THE BOTTLE BILL, YOU HAD TWO SIDES THAT WERE AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS, WERE UNABLE TO SIT DOWN AND TALK. THERE ARE MIDDLE-GROUND AREAS IN THAT DEBATE. THERE'S AN EXTREME POSITION, EXTREME PRO-BUSINESS POSITION, AND EXTREME PRO-LABOR AND PRO-ENVIRONMENTAL POSITION. BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TALK. IF THEY CAN GET TO THAT MIDDLE AND TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEEDS OF BOTH SIDES, YEAH, THAT COULD COME UP IN A SPECIAL SESSION, BUT ONLY IF THOSE TWO SIDES AGREE TO SIT DOWN ACROSS THE TABLE AND REACH AN AGREEMENT.

Yepsen: WELL, VILSACK HAS AN AMENDMENT HERE TO TRY TO DO EXACTLY THAT. YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE TOM VILSACK SOME CREDIT IN THIS THING. IT IS NOT POPULAR AS A DEMOCRAT TO BE OUT THERE TRYING TO HELP BUILD POWER PLANTS. HE'S TAKING A LOT OF HEAT FROM LABOR, LIBERALS, AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS. YET HE KNOWS THAT WE NEED TO BUILD MORE POWER PLANTS, SO HE'S TRYING TO FORGE A COMPROMISE HERE IN THE SENATE. HE WASN'T ABLE TO GET A VOTE THIS TIME. IF THAT COMPROMISE IS THE MIDDLE GROUND THAT MIKE IS TALKING ABOUT, THAT WILL MAKE THAT THING FLY.

Glover: AND HE WAS UNABLE TO GET THAT COMPROMISE BECAUSE THE BUSINESS GROUPS SAID IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH, THE POT IS NOT SWEET ENOUGH, SWEETEN IT UP A LITTLE BIT. WELL, WHEN THEY GET BACK TO THE TABLE AND SAY, "OKAY, WE DON'T GET EVERYTHING WE WANT IN THIS, BUT WE GET A POWER PLANT," THEN IT WILL WORK. BUT I DON'T SENSE RIGHT NOW IN THE CURRENT, ALBEIT, NAYSAYER HERE, I DON'T SENSE, IN THE CURRENT MOOD AT THE STATEHOUSE, ANY MOOD TO ACCOMMODATE EITHER ONE OF THESE. I THINK THEY COULD ACCOMMODATE THEM, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY WILL.

Borg: JOYCE, WE KNOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT REDISTRICTING IS GOING TO IMPOSE UPON US IN A WAY OF WHERE THE POWER MIGHT LIE NEXT TIME, DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, OR ABOUT EVEN-STEVEN. BUT ARE THERE SOME ISSUES THAT ARE PENDING THAT MAYBE THIS IS THEIR LAST CHANCE IN THE EVENT THAT POWER DOES SHIFT TO THE URBAN RATHER THAN WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW?

Russell: I THINK MAYBE SOME HELP FOR RURAL SCHOOLS WOULD BE ONE OF THE BIG ONES, MAYBE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF SOME KIND OF HELP FOR SCHOOL BUILDING REPAIRS AND BUILDING NEW SCHOOLS. INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS ARE JUST TREMENDOUS OUT THERE IN THE RURAL SCHOOLS. THE NEXT LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO BE MORE URBAN. THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. AND THE NEXT LEGISLATURE COULD BE DEMOCRATIC, IF THE THING SHIFTS THE WAY IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE PAST REDISTRICTING.

Borg: ARE THERE OTHERS, MIKE?

Glover: THE NEXT SLICE IS HIGHWAY FUNDING. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS -- SCHOOLS ARE STRICTLY A RURAL/URBAN DEAL. THEY'RE NOT A REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRATIC DEAL. HIGHWAYS AND ROADS ARE THE SAME THING; THEY'RE A RURAL/URBAN DEAL. IOWA HAS LIKE THE SEVENTH HIGHEST LEVEL OF ROADWAY IN THE NATION PER CAPITA. IT'S BASED ON EVERY SECTION, YOU'VE GOT A ROAD TO TAKE THE CROP TO MARKET.

Yepsen: THEN THERE ARE ROADS IN DES MOINES THAT AREN'T PAVED.

Glover: AND YOU HAVE ROADS IN THE CITY OF DES MOINES THAT HAVE NO PAVING ON THEM, SO THAT FIGHT AND REWORKING THE ROAD FORMULA IS SOMETHING, I WOULD ASSUME, THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT ELECTION, RURAL FORCES ARE GOING TO COME IN AND TRY TO DO SOME KIND OF A "YOU CAN'T TAMPER WITH THE ROAD FORMULA FOR THE NEXT FIFTY YEARS" KIND OF AN AMENDMENT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Obradovich: I WOULD SAY THAT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF IS ANOTHER CLASSIC RURAL/URBAN ISSUE. THEY HAVE TRIED FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO GET SOME SORT OF PROPERTY TAX LIMITATION IN PLACE THAT HAS BEEN ACCEPTABLE TO BOTH RURAL AND URBAN. THEY'VE HAD TO LEAVE THE CITIES OUT BOTH TIMES IN ORDER TO GET ENOUGH URBAN LEGISLATORS ON. THEY STILL HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DO IT. THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT I THINK YOU WANT REPUBLICANS TO -- REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO WANT TO GO OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH THAT ONE.

Yepsen: I THINK A LOT OF THE RURAL INTERESTS ARE FEELING A LITTLE NERVOUS. THEY CAN SEE THIS COMING. THE FIRST REAPPORTIONMENT PLAN GAVE THEM A LITTLE TASTE OF HOW BAD IT'S GOING TO BE, SORT OF STICKER SHOCK. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THREE OF YOU RURAL SENATORS AND THROW YOU INNE DISTRICT, SO THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT SCHOOLS AND HIGHWAYS AND PROPERTY TAX INCREASES. BUT I'LL TELL YOU SOMETHING, DEAN, YOU NEVER WANT TO BET AGAINST THOSE FARMERS UP THERE IN THAT LEGISLATURE, BECAUSE THEY SHOW UP FOR WORK AT 6:30 IN THE MORNING AND THEY'VE GOT THEIR DEALS CUT BEFORE THOSE URBAN GUYS EVEN GET THERE.

Russell: AND I THINK THAT -- DON'T YOU THINK WE CAN OVERSTATE THIS? POLK COUNTY, WITH THIS FIRST REDISTRICTING PLAN, I THINK THEIR DELEGATION WAS GOING TO GO FROM 12 TO 14. WELL, THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. AND YOU'VE GOT THESE RURAL DISTRICTS GETTING MUCH BIGGER. BUT I THINK WE CAN OVERSTATE HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE THERE'S GOING TO BE.

Yepsen: ON A PARTISAN BASIS, THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A DIFFERENT KIND OF REPUBLICAN. IN OTHER WORDS, THE FARM BUREAU REPUBLICAN MAY GIVE WAY TO THE SUBURBAN, MODERATE, FEMALE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR.

Glover: I RECALL THE DIFFERENCES IN, LIKE, CANDIDATE RECRUITMENT. I CAN RECALL A TIME A FEW YEARS BACK WHEN REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE RECRUITMENT INVOLVED GOING TO A COUNTY, ASKING WHO THE RETIRED FIRST PAST PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTY FARM BUREAU WAS, AND GOING TO RECRUIT THAT PERSON TO RUN FOR THE LEGISLATURE. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Borg: NOW, IS THE REDISTRICTING PLAN -- AND YOU'VE ALREADY SAID THIS WAS A VERY RANCOROUS SESSION. IN FACT, MIKE, EARLY ON I CAN REMEMBER AT A ROUNDTABLE, MIKE, WAY BACK IN JANUARY, PERHAPS SAYING, "YOU KNOW, SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS SESSION. IT REALLY IS BACK-BITING UP THERE." AND IT CERTAINLY PROGRESSED FROM THERE AND WENT DOWNHILL FROM THERE, MIKE. BUT AS WE GET A LOOK AT WHAT THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN 2003, AND GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE'RE ALREADY IN A VERY RANCOROUS SITUATION RIGHT NOW, IS IT LIKELY TO GO DOWNHILL EVEN NEXT YEAR?

Glover: SADLY, I THINK IT IS AND IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE, I THINK, NEXT YEAR, BECAUSE ALL OF THE DYNAMICS THAT WENT INTO MAKING THIS A FAIRLY RANCOROUS, PARTISAN, NASTY SESSION REMAIN IN PLACE FOR NEXT YEAR. AND A COUPLE OF THINGS HAPPEN TO MAKE IT WORSE. (A) NEXT YEAR IS AN ELECTIONYEAR. NEXT YEAR IS THE GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION YEAR. GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION YEARS ARE, BY DEFINITION, PRETTY NASTY, PARTISAN THINGS UP AT THE HILL. (B) THERE WILL BE A NEW MAP ON THE BOOKS BY NEXT FALL. AND BY THE TIME THIS LEGISLATURE ARRIVES IN JANUARY, THERE WILL BE NEW MAPS. THERE WILL BE LEGISLATORS WHO WERE COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOW RIVALS. THIS FIRST MAP HAD 20 SENATORS AND 50 REPRESENTATIVES PAIRED WITH SOMEBODY ELSE. THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE WITH WHATEVER MAP THEY END UP WITH, SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE SITTING THERE, RUNNING AGAINST EACH OTHER, TRYING TO FORCE EACH OTHER TO MOVE IN AND OUT, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. THAT'S JUST GOING TO ADD ANOTHER LEVEL TO THE PARTISANSHIP.

Yepsen: AND IT WILL ALSO ADD A THING CALLED LOOSE CANNONISM. THERE ARE MEMBERS WHO KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO RETIRE WHO HAVE SAID, "AH, THE HECK WITH IT." THEY SEE THAT PLAN AND, "I CAN'T WIN, I'VE BEEN HERE TEN YEARS SO I'M GOING TO GET OUT." THESE GUYS BECOME REAL FREE AGENTS. BOTH PARTIES, THEY'RE JUST LOOSE CANNONS. THEIR FUNCTION IN LIFE IS TO MAKE TROUBLE, GET EVEN FOR SOME SLIGHT THAT HAPPENED TEN YEARS AGO, SO THAT WILL MAKE IT EVEN MORE RANCOROUS.

Borg: GO AHEAD.

Obradovich: I WAS GOING TO SAY THERE'S LIKELY TO BE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DESPERATION IN THE LOBBY AS WELL, AS THEY LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY -- IF THERE'S ANY POSSIBILITY OF CONTROL CHANGING OR POSSIBILITY OF SOME OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, FAVORITE LEGISLATORS TO BE LEAVING, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LEVEL OF PRESSURE AND DESPERATION TO GET SOME OF THEIR ISSUES THROUGH THAT WILL ADD EVEN MORE ATTENTION TO THIS SESSION.

Glover: AND THERE'S GOING TO BE CHANGE AT THE LEGISLATURE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER EITHER CHAMBER SHIFTS PARTIES, WHICH PARTY IS IN CONTROL, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER REPUBLICANS GAIN OR DEMOCRATS GAIN. THERE'S GOING TO BE CHANGE IN PART BECAUSE BOTH PARTIES WENT TO SOME OF THEIR SENIOR MEMBERS BEFORE THE LAST ELECTION AND SAID, "WE KNOW YOU WANT TO RETIRE, WE KNOW YOU WANT TO GET OUT, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO HANG AROUND FOR ONE MORE TERM JUST TO BE THERE FOR REDISTRICTING." A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE RETIRING. AND YOU SAW THAT WHEN THE FIRST MAP CAME OUT, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE PAIRED UP KIND OF SHRUGGED THEIR SHOULDERS AND SAID, "I'M RETIRING ANYWAY. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME."

Russell: WE'LL SEE SOME FORCED VOTES ON SOME ISSUES THAT ARE NOT LIKELY TO GO ANYWHERE BUT JUST FORCE PEOPLE ON -- AND I REMEMBER TEN YEARS AGO THERE WAS A GAY RIGHTS VOTE IN THE HOUSE THAT ULTIMATELY WAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO GET DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WHO WERE PAIRED TOGETHER, GET THEM ON RECORD ON THAT SO THEY COULD CAMPAIGN ON IT.

Borg: ARE THERE OTHER THINGS THAT REQUIRE, REALLY, A BIPARTISAN LEGISLATURE WITHOUT A LOT OF RANCOR THAT REALLY ARE GOING TO SUFFER IN THIS SORT OF AN ATMOSPHERE? CAN YOU THINK OF SOME?

Yepsen: WELL, I THINK ALL ISSUES -- IF YOU CARE AT ALL ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY, IT'S A BAD TIME TO BE UP THERE AT THE LEGISLATURE TRYING TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE IT IS SO PARTISAN AND NERVOUS AND FOR ALL THE REASONS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT. I REALLY THINK IT'S TIME TO RUN AN ELECTION. I WISH THIS WERE ENGLAND, WHERE YOU COULD CALL AN ELECTION, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO GET IT OUT OF OUR SYSTEM ALMOST AS A STATE. THERE'S SO MANY ISSUES BACKED UP, SO MUCH CHANGE IN THE WORKS THAT I THINK, IN ORDER FOR ANYTHING MAJOR TO BE ACCOMPLISHED, WE REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT 2003 LEGISLATURE.

Borg: YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST ISSUE RIGHT NOW, I THINK MOST IOWANS ARE LOOKING AT WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED IN SCHOOLS AND EDUCATION AND SO ON AT THE LEGISLATURE. THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE GAS PUMPS. THEY'RE TRYING TO PAY WHAT THEY PAID FOR NATURAL GAS OVER THE PAST WINTER AND AVERAGING OUT THEIR BILLS. GO AHEAD, MIKE.

Glover: IT'S INTERESTING THAT THIS SIGNATURE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT THIS LEGISLATURE LIKELY WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR IN THE SHORT TERM IS SOMETHING NOBODY TALKED ABOUT GOING IN... THEY PASSED $100-MILLION TAX CUT, GRADUALLY PHASING OUT THE SALES TAX ON YOUR UTILITY BILL. WITHIN SIX YEARS YOU WON'T PAY A 5-PERCENT SALES TAX ON YOUR UTILITY BILL, AND THEY SUSPENDED SALES TAX ENTIRELY FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS DURING THE WINTER. THAT'S PROBABLY ALL THIS LEGISLATURE CAN DO, BUT IT SHOWS THAT THEY REACTED TO THAT BEING THE TOP CONCERN.

Borg: AND PRESIDENT BUSH HAS TRIED TO SAY "THERE ISN'T MUCH THAT I CAN DO AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. IN FACT, WE'RE GOING TO LET THINGS PLAY OUT." I THINK THAT SUMMARIZES. BUT HE'S COMING TO IOWA ON AN ENERGY ISSUE NEXT WEEK.

Yepsen: I THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE A SENSE THAT THEY'RE THE PARTY IN POWER HERE IN WASHINGTON, AND THE ENERGY DEAL ULTIMATELY WINDS UP IN THEIR LAP. I THINK IT'S ONE MORE REASON WHY 2002 IS GOING TO BE A VERY GOOD YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS. WE TAKE ANOTHER YEAR OF $2, $3 GAS, PEOPLE IN A BAD MOOD, AT SOME POINT BUSH CAN SAY, "WELL, CLINTON LEFT ME WITH THIS MESS." BUT AT SOME POINT VOTERS ARE GOING TO SAY, "WELL, YEAH, BUT NOW IT'S YOUR MESS AND WE WANT SOMETHING DONE." I THINK IT'S ALL PART OF A BIG THING WHY I THINK 2002 WILL BE A GOOD YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS. YOU TAKE THIS REAPPORTIONMENT PLAN. YOU TAKE AWAY -- YOU TAKE AWAY REPUBLICAN ADVANTAGE OF INCUMBENCY BY REDRAWING ALL THE DISTRICT LINES IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, THAT GIVES DEMOCRATS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE GAINS IN THE LEGISLATURE. AND I THINK PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, REPUBLICANS ARE NERVOUS. THEY'RE LOOKING IN THEIR GRAVE UP THERE, AND THEY'RE NERVOUS ABOUT IT.

Glover: AND THE OTHER LEVEL OF NERVOUSNESS THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ANYBODY ADMIT UP THERE IS, RIGHT NOW, REPUBLICANS DON'T THINK THEY CAN BEAT TOM VILSACK. THEY'VE GOT A COUPLE OF STATE LEGISLATORS WHO AREN'T VERY WELL KNOWN TO RUN AGAINST HIM. THEY'VE GOT A BUSINESSMAN FROM SIOUX CITY WHO'S NOT REAL WELL KNOWN TO RUN AGAINST HIM. YEAH, THEY'LL BE WELL FINANCED. YEAH, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN POLITICS, BUT REPUBLICANS, AS OF RIGHT NOW, DON'T THINK THEY CAN BEAT HIM. AND THERE'S A FRUSTRATION LEVEL --

Yepsen: AND THAT MAKES THEM EVEN MORE SHRILL.

Glover: THAT'S RIGHT.

Yepsen: YOU KNOW, TO GO BACK TO YOUR WASHINGTON MODEL, GEORGE BUSH TOLD HOUSE REPUBLICANS LAST YEAR, "KNOCK IT OFF, I DON'T NEED YOU GUYS MAKING A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR ME WHILE I'M OUT HERE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT." IN IOWA, REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT NO CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF SUCH A STATURE TO TELL REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE TO COOL IT. THEY GET VERY FRUSTRATED SO THEY JUST WANT TO -- THEY CAN'T BEAT TOM VILSACK SO THEY JUST THROW ANOTHER ROCK AT HIM AND KILL ANOTHER ONE OF HIS BILLS, WHICH MAKES HIM MAD AND HE POPS OFF AND HERE WE GO.

Borg: JOYCE, JUST IN OUR WANING TIME HERE, WE'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE... I WOULD GUESS ANOTHER SEGMENT, POLITICIANS WHO ARE A BIT NERVOUS RIGHT NOW, ARE OUR HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PEOPLE FROM IOWA WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR DISTRICT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

Russell: ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT'S WHY IT'S HARD TO TALK ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE. WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO GET PAIRED WITH WHOM. A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE WANT TO RUN FOR CONGRESS, WHO ARE JUST HANGING LOOSE UNTIL THEY KNOW WHAT THE DISTRICT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. IF YOU'RE FROM DES MOINES, IS LEONARD BOSWELL GOING TO BE IN YOUR DISTRICT OR NOT?

Glover: AND ONE OF THE LEVELS OF FRUSTRATION THAT IS AMONG THOSE CONGRESSMEN, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEIR FATE DOES NOT EVEN WEIGH AN OUNCE ON WHAT THAT LEGISLATURE DOES WITH NEW DISTRICTS. THE LEGISLATURE JUST DOESN'T CARE WITH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

Yepsen: WELL, WE'VE GOT A 4/1 REPUBLICAN SPLIT IN THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION. DEAN, I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING A LITTLE BIT GREEDY IF THEY THINK, IN A STATE THAT IS AS EVENLY BALANCED AS THIS, THEY CAN KEEP IT. I THINK IT WILL WIND UP 3/2 NO MATTER WHAT.

Borg: WE'RE OUT OF TIME. THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHTS. ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," OUR FOCUS SHIFTS FROM THE IOWA CAPITAL TO THE NATION'S CAPITAL. IOWA'S FOURTH DISTRICT CONGRESSMAN, GREG GANSKE OF DES MOINES, WILL BE HERE TO DISCUSS THE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS IN WASHINGTON AND HIS CHALLENGE OF INCUMBENT TOM HARKIN FOR THE U.S. SENATE. THAT'S NEXT SUNDAY AT NOON AND 7:00 HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH. UNTIL THEN, I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

NARRATOR:

FUNDING FOR "IOWA PRESS" HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY FRIENDS OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; BY THE ASSOCIATION OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY... THE VOICE OF IOWA BUSINESS, REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF OVER 1,500 IOWA BUSINESSES EMPLOYING 300,000 IOWANS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA...THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.