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Iowa Press #2922
January 25 and 27, 2002

Borg: AT THE IOWA STATEHOUSE, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS SENDING GOVERNOR VILSACK LEGISLATION TO ATTRACT BIG INVESTORS TO IOWA. WE'LL GET AN UPDATE FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, LARRY MCKIBBEN, AND THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, DON SHOULTZ, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

Narrator: FUNDING FOR "IOWA PRESS" WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS" OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA ... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION IS CELEBRATING THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF IOWA PRESS, NOW SERVING THE STATE AS IOWA'S LONGEST-RUNNING NEWS-INTERVIEW PROGRAM. WITH THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: AS EXPECTED, IOWA'S BUDGET FOR FISCAL 2003 DRIVES THE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA DURING THIS SECOND SESSION OF THE 79TH IOWA GENERAL ASSEMBLY. CONTINUING FLAT REVENUE PROJECTIONS ARE FORCING LAWMAKERS TO STRUGGLE TO MATCH WHAT'S COMING INTO THE STATE TREASURY WITH WHAT'S GOING OUT. IN MAJOR ACTION THIS PAST WEEK, BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE APPROVED A PLAN TO REIGNITE IOWA'S ECONOMY. THE PLAN, OFTEN REFERRED TO AS "VENTURE CAPITAL", HOPES TO ATTRACT MAJOR INVESTMENTS IN IOWA BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY. THE IDEA IS TO CREATE JOBS, SALES, AND EVENTUALLY TAX REVENUE. JOINING US ARE TWO IOWA LEGISLATORS WITH LEADING ROLES IN DEVELOPING THE LEGISLATURE'S PLAN FOR TAX POLICY. MARSHALLTOWN REPUBLICAN LARRY MCKIBBEN CHAIRS THE SENATE'S WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE. AND WATERLOO DEMOCRAT DON SHOULTZ IS THE RANKING DEMOCRAT ON THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK TO "IOWA PRESS."

McKibben/Shoultz: THANK YOU. GOOD DAY.

Borg: AND ACROSS THE TABLE, "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND "ASSOCIATED PRESS" STATEHOUSE REPORTER MIKE GLOVE.

Glover: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, AS DEAN MENTIONED, PART OF THE SOLUTION TO THE STATE'S BUDGET PROBLEM, IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED, IS STIMULATING THE ECONOMY. THE LEGISLATURE'S OPENED THIS YEAR'S SESSION FOCUSING ON STIMULATING THE ECONOMY. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

McKibben: WELL, WE PASSED YESTERDAY IN THE SENATE, FOLLOWING THE HOUSE PASSAGE, THE IOWA CAPITAL FORMATION ACT OF 2002, AND WE ALSO PASSED THE IOWA SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH INITIATIVE AS PART OF THAT BILL. ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE LOOKED AT OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN TERMS OF FUNDING FOR OUR SMALL BUSINESSES AND OUR HIGH-TECH COMPANIES THAT HAVE BEEN STARTED IN THIS STATE. AND WE'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT THE DATA AND SEEN THAT AN AWFUL LOT OF THEM HAVE LEFT THE STATE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET FUNDING TO GROW THEIR BUSINESS. AND VENTURE CAPITAL REALLY IS A SECOND-STAGE FUNDING COMPONENT, WHERE THE COMPANY REALLY HAS GOT UP AND RUNNING, HAS PROVEN TO BE SUCCESSFUL, AND NOW NEEDS LARGE AMOUNTS OF CAPITAL TO GO FORWARD. AND RIGHT NOW WE RANK 50TH IN THE UNITED STATES IN VENTURE CAPITAL.

Glover: WHAT DOES THIS DO TO STIMULATE THAT TYPE OF INVESTMENT?

McKibben: IT IS GOING TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FUNDING RESOURCES. WE'RE GOING TO ENTER INTO THE CAPITAL MARKETS IN THE UNITED STATES AND INTERNATIONALLY TO HAVE THE CAPITAL AVAILABLE SO THAT WE CAN LEND IT TO THE START-UP COMPANIES.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, YOU'RE GOING BACK HOME TO WATERLOO; YOU'RE HAVING A TOWN MEETING ON SATURDAY MORNING. SOMEBODY SAYS, "WHAT'S THIS VENTURE CAPITAL THING ALL ABOUT?" EXPLAIN IT TO THEM IN LAYMAN'S TERMS.

Shoultz: WELL, AS LARRY SAID, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ANY VENTURE CAPITAL. THIS STATE HAS NOT BEEN A GROWTH STATE, SO WE HAVEN'T ATTRACTED VENTURE CAPITAL. SO WHAT THIS WILL DO, WE WILL GET THIS FUND OF FUNDS, WHICH WILL POSSIBLY HAVE $100 MILLION IN IT, AND THEN WE WILL ASK VENTURE CAPITAL BUSINESSES TO COME TO IOWA AND LOCATE IN IOWA SO THAT PEOPLE THAT WANT TO START UP BUSINESSES THAT HAVE GOOD IDEAS FOR A GROWTH BUSINESS WILL KNOW WHERE TO GET THE CAPITAL. AND THEY'LL ALSO -- AND THE VENTURE CAPITAL WILL ALSO KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS, WE DON'T HAVE A PRESENCE HERE.

Glover: WHAT I'M NOT HEARING FROM EITHER ONE OF YOU IS IN LAYMAN'S TERMS WHAT THIS LEGISLATION DOES. I HEAR ALL ABOUT CREATING VENTURE CAPITAL. WHAT DOES IT DO?

Shoultz: WELL, ACTUALLY WHAT IT DOES IN THIS PARTICULAR SCHEME -- IT'S BASED UPON AN OKLAHOMA PLAN. AND IT SAYS THAT IF AN INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR, LIKE A BANK OR AN INSURANCE COMPANY OR A CREDIT UNION OR UTILITY, WILL PUT MONEY INTO THIS FUND OF FUNDS THAT WHEN THEY PUT -- IF SOMEBODY PUTS IN $10 MILLION INTO THE FUND OF FUNDS, THEN THE STATE WILL GIVE THEM TAX CREDITS FOR THAT $10 MILLION PLUS AN AMOUNT OF GROWTH. NOW, WE CAN GO UP TO $100 MILLION. NOW, THOSE TAX CREDITS CANNOT BE REDEEMED UNLESS THERE IS A LOSS SOMETIME DOWN THE ROAD, AND THAT COULDN'T BE, YOU KNOW, NOT FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR SO. AND IT'S VERY, VERY UNLIKELY THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN, BECAUSE THE FUND MANAGER THAT USES THAT MONEY WILL MIX THAT IN WITH OTHER VENTURE CAPITAL, AND THEY MAY -- YOU KNOW, A $10-MILLION, A $100-MILLION INVESTMENT MAY COVER 350 DIFFERENT COMPANIES. NOW, MAYBE A PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WILL NOT MAKE IT, BUT THERE WILL BE ENOUGH OF THEM THERE SO THAT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PROFIT AT THE END OF THE TIME.

Glover: AS A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD THING?

Shoultz: WELL, AS A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, SOMEBODY WOULD SAY SOMETIMES YOU'VE OPPOSED THESE THINGS. BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED. WE USED TO BE AN ECONOMY IN THE STATE OF IOWA WHERE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR A GOOD COMPANY THAT WAS SOLID AND WOULD GIVE YOU GOOD DIVIDENDS, LIKE MAYTAG AND PLACES LIKE THAT, JOHN DEERE. BUT WE'RE IN A GROWTH ECONOMY NOW, AND WITHOUT HAVING VENTURE CAPITAL, YOU DO NOT GET THE KIND OF GROWTH START-UP COMPANIES WITH THE HIGH TECHNOLOGY. YOU KNOW, WE LET THE COMPUTER INDUSTRY GO COMPLETELY OUT OF THE STATE. WE DEVELOPED THE COMPUTER AT IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY IN 1939, I THINK IT WAS. NO VENTURE CAPITAL. AND IT ENDED UP IN SILICON VALLEY OUT IN WASHINGTON.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THIS INVOLVES SPENDING STATE MONEY. THAT'S NOT CORRECT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TAX CREDIT. SO LET'S MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THIS OKLAHOMA PLAN DOES.

McKibben: WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO CLARIFY THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT.

Yepsen: IT GETS A LITTLE COMPLICATED.

McKibben: THE $100 MILLION -- AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IN THIS DIFFICULT TIME WHY ARE YOU SPENDING $100 MILLION. WE'RE INCENTING BUSINESSES THE INVESTMENT BY NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL MONEY MARKET OR MONEY CAPITALISTS INTO THE STATE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BY DEFINITION WITH A VENTURE BUSINESS OR A BUSINESS EARLY IN ITS START-UP CAREER, IT HAS SOME RISK. AND IOWA HAS BEEN KIND OF A RISK-AVERSE STATE IN TERMS OF FUNDING VENTURES. WE HAVE, YOU KNOW -- WE'VE GOT GREAT BANKERS AND GREAT BANKING INSTITUTIONS IN THIS STATE, BUT THEY LIKE TO SEE COLLATERAL, AND A LOT OF THESE COMPANIES SIMPLY DON'T HAVE COLLATERAL. THEY NEED MONEY TO HIRE PEOPLE. THEY NEED TO GO TO THE SILICON VALLEY AND GET HIGH-TECH PEOPLE AND BRING THEM IN. THE CREDITS ARE THERE SO THAT IF AFTER FIVE TO TEN YEARS THEY DON'T GET THE RETURN THAT WE ARE GUARANTEEING TO THEM, THEY'LL BE SECURED. OKLAHOMA MODEL HASN'T USED ANY OF THOSE CREDITS, EVER. IN FACT, THEY ARE NOW GOING BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE AND ASKING FOR MORE MONEY TO FUND MORE VENTURE CAPITAL. IT'S BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL WHERE IT'S BEEN TRIED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

Yepsen: THERE SEEMS TO BE A GREAT DEAL OF AGREEMENT ON THIS OKLAHOMA PLAN. THERE'S NOT SO MUCH AGREEMENT ON ANOTHER COMPONENT OF THE VENTURE CAPITAL OR THE ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE OUT THERE, AND THAT'S THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX BREAKS. SENATOR MCKIBBEN, YOU'RE FOR THAT. EXPLAIN HOW THAT WORKS.

McKibben: WELL, AS YOU KNOW, WE PASSED OUT OF THE SENATE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE LAST WEEK, WE HAVE THREE COMPONENTS IN THIS BILL. WE HAVE THE VENTURE CAPITAL, WE HAD THE SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH INITIATIVE, AND WE HAD THE CAPITAL GAINS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IN THE NEW ECONOMY COMPANIES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO RECRUIT PEOPLE BACK IN, WHERE THE COMPANY DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO PAY AN INITIALLY HIGH PAYROLL, THEY'LL OFFER STOCK OPTIONS TO THEIR EMPLOYEES SO THEY CAN INCENT THEM BACK HERE. IT IS A COMPONENT OF THE NEW ECONOMY COMPANIES. BECAUSE WE DID NOT COUPLE UP IN THE 1980S WITH THE FEDERAL LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE CAPITAL GAINS, WE STILL TAX CAPITAL GAINS HIGHER THAN OTHER STATES. EFFECTIVELY, WHEN THEY CASH THEIR STOCK OPTIONS, THEY WILL END UP PAYING MORE ON INCOME TAX IN THE STATE OF IOWA THAN THEY'LL TAKE OUT OF ORDINARY INCOME. IT DOESN'T LET US RECRUIT THE HUMAN CAPITAL AT THE HIGH-TECH LEVEL.

Yepsen: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, YOU HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT IDEA? SOME DEMOCRATS HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERN.

Shoultz: WELL, AS A RANKING MEMBER, I HAD A MEETING OF THE DEMOCRATS BACK IN DECEMBER, ON THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR PACKAGE SHOULD BE. AND ONE PART OF THE PACKAGE WAS VENTURE CAPITAL, BUT ANOTHER PART WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT SINCE WE HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY IN THE STATE TO MAKE SURE THAT WHENEVER WE ARE GIVING ANY KIND OF A TAX BREAK OR A TAX INCENTIVE THAT IT IS TARGETED EXACTLY WHERE IT SHOULD GO TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WILL STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. YOU DO NOT GET VERY MUCH STIMULATION OF THE ECONOMY JUST BY THROWING MONEY OUT THERE. IT MUST BE TARGETED.

Yepsen: THE LAST PIECE, SENATOR MCKIBBEN, THAT YOU MENTIONED WAS THIS SMALL BUSINESS PART, THE SUBCHAPTER "S" PART. QUICKLY, WHAT DOES THAT DO?

McKibben: BACK IN THE LATE 1990S OUR SMALL BUSINESS, OR OUR "S" CORPORATIONS, ONES WHO FLOW THEIR INCOME OUT TO THE SHAREHOLDERS RATHER THAN PAYING CORPORATE TAX THEMSELVES, WE BEGAN A REFORM TO WHERE WE COULD REALLY NOT PENALIZE THE DISTRIBUTION OF THOSE PROFITS TO THE SHAREHOLDERS. IN FACT, GOVERNOR VILSACK, WHEN HE WAS A SENATOR, LED THAT BEGINNING CHANGE IN REFORM SO THAT WE WERE MORE COMPETITIVE IN THAT AREA. SO MANY OF OUR BUSINESSES IN OUR SMALLER COMMUNITIES ARE ORGANIZED NOW AS "S" CORPORATIONS OR SMALL-BUSINESS TAX CORPORATIONS WHERE THEY FLOW THE PROFITS THROUGH. WE, ON OUR EXPORTING "S" CORPORATIONS, DON'T ALLOW THEM TO DEDUCT A FULL 100 PERCENT OF THEIR FEDERAL INCOME TAX ON EXPORTED PRODUCTS. FOR OUR "C" CORPORATIONS, WE HAVE A SINGLE FACTOR FORMULA IN THIS STATE. WE DO NOT TAX EXPORTED PRODUCTS FROM MAYTAG AND THAT TYPE OF THING. SO WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS WE WANT OUR SMALL BUSINESS CORPORATIONS THAT ARE "S" CORPORATIONS TO HAVE THE SAME SINGLE-FACTOR FORMULA FOR EXPORTED PRODUCTS.

Yepsen: MR. SHOULTZ, I GATHER DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

Shoultz: WELL, WE -- WHEN WE PASSED THE FIRST SUBCHAPTER "S" CORPORATIONS, WE DID MOSTLY ALL VOTE FOR IT, AND IT COST THE STATE TREASURY $8 MILLION. THAT WAS A TIME WHEN WE HAD SOME EXTRA MONEY, HAD SURPLUS, SO WE DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AT THAT TIME. BUT IT'S A LITTLE MORE PROBLEMATIC. AGAIN, AS I SAID, IT IS NOT WELL TARGETED. IT WILL BE ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS THAT WILL GO OUT OF THE TREASURY ON TOP OF THE $8 MILLION WE HAD BEFORE. AND IT'S GOING TO GO OUT TO 28, 30 PEOPLE, AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY. THEY MAY TAKE IT DOWN TO TUSCON AND BUY A TOWNHOUSE OR SOMETHING.

McKibben: I MIGHT HAVE A REPLY TO THAT BUT --

Shoultz: WELL, THESE ARE THE FACTS. THIS IS JUST EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENED. I KNOW THAT YOU THINK SOMETHING DIFFERENT BUT --

McKibben: WELL, JUST EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENED IS IN COUNCIL BLUFFS A MAJOR COMPANY HAS JUST MOVED ACROSS THE RIVER TO OMAHA AND SET UP BUSINESS BECAUSE IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO STAY HERE, TAX WISE. THESE ARE THE GOOD JOBS AND THE GOOD PAYING JOBS, REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, SO I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Borg: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ATTRACTING VENTURE CAPITAL COMPANIES TO COME TO IOWA. LET ME USE A COUPLE OF SLANG TERMS HERE IN FRAMING THIS QUESTION: "JOHNNY-COME-LATELY AND HOW BIG IS THE PIE?" THAT IS, IF OTHER STATES HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK IOWA IS GOING TO BE ATTRACTIVE IN ITS PLAN TO BRING MONEY HERE?

McKibben: WELL, WE SIMPLY HAVE TO HAVE TO BE A PLAYER IN THE GAME. RIGHT NOW WE'RE 50TH AMONG ALL THE STATES IN THE UNITED STATES. I THINK WE HAD MAYBE 7/10 OF ONE PERCENT OF ALL THE VENTURE CAPITAL INVESTMENTS IN THE 50 STATES CAME TO IOWA A YEAR AGO. WE MAYBE HAD ONE IPO OR TWO IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, DEAN, IS SET A CLIMATE IN THE STATE. AND OUR CLIMATE HAS NOT BEEN ONE WHERE WE'RE WILLING TO TAKE RISK AND PLAY IN THE NEW ECONOMY. I THINK REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ MENTIONED THAT A LITTLE BIT EARLIER. WE HAVEN'T BEEN A PLAYER IN THE NEW ECONOMY. AND THE RESULTS ARE -- AND I THINK REPRESENTATIVE MASCHER SAID THAT IN DEBATE YESTERDAY IN THE HOUSE. WHAT ARE THE RESULTS? FIFTEEN THOUSAND LESS STUDENTS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IN OUR K-12 SCHOOLS. ONE OF ONLY FOUR STATES IN THE UNITED STATES TO HAVE DECLINING POPULATION SINCE THE END OF THE LAST CENSUS. FOR THOSE OF US LIKE MCKIBBEN WHO HAVE GRANDKIDS IN THIS STATE AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM GROW UP HERE AND PLAY THEIR HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL GAMES IN IOWA, I'M GOING TO FIGHT LIKE THE DICKENS TO CHANGE THAT CLIMATE, DEAN.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, ISN'T THIS REALLY SMALL POTATOES? I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A STATE ECONOMY OF ABOUT $80 BILLION. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOSSING AROUND A FEW HUNDRED THOUSANDS DOLLARS HERE, A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS THERE. HOW CAN YOU ARGUE SERIOUSLY THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE IOWA ECONOMY?

Shoultz: WELL, FIRST, THE $100 MILLION THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO CREATE IN THIS FUND OF FUNDS WILL BE MANAGED BY ANOTHER FIRM, AND IT WILL BE A VENTURE CAPITAL FIRM. AND WHEN THEY COME TO IOWA, THEY WILL BRING WITH THEM THAT VENTURE CAPITAL, SO IT WILL LEVERAGE MORE MONEY. BUT IT'S NOT THE WHOLE ANSWER, AS YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THIS IS SORT OF SECOND-STAGE MONEY. THE INITIAL VENTURE CAPITAL, THAT KIND OF A RISK, THAT PAPAJOHN, WARREN BUFFET KIND OF STUFF IS ANOTHER PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT WE HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER, BECAUSE THAT PERSON THAT'S OUT THERE THAT HAS AN IDEA, DOESN'T HAVE A PATENT, HAS TO SURVIVE ANOTHER SIX MONTHS, HAS TO HIRE THE ATTORNEYS, HAS TO DO THE THINGS, NEEDS THAT START-UP, THIS VENTURE CAPITAL WILL NOT BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. YOU'LL HAVE TO GET THE ANGEL INVESTORS TO COME IN AND DO THAT.

Borg: HOW BIG DOES AN ANGEL HAVE TO BE? CAN I KICK IN $20,000 ALONG THE WAY SOMEPLACE AS A SMALL INVESTOR, OR DO I HAVE TO BE JOHN PAPAJOHN?

Shoultz: I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO USE YOUR $20,000 FOR THE PURPOSE OF AN ANGEL INVESTOR UNLESS YOU HAVE QUITE A BIT TO BACK IT UP. BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE PIECES THAT'S MISSING ALSO, AND WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THAT. I WANTED TO DO THAT IN THE BILL, BUT DID NOT GET AN AMENDMENT APPROVED IN TIME, SO IT DID NOT GET TAKEN UP. BUT THAT WAS TO MAKE THE PLACE FOR THE SMALL INVESTOR TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS SO THAT THEY COULD GET THE SAME KIND OF GUARANTIES THAT THE LARGE INVESTOR IS GETTING. WE'RE ACTUALLY TELLING A BANK, INSTEAD OF PUTTING YOUR MONEY INTO TREASURIES, COME TO OUR FUND OF FUNDS AND PUT YOUR MONEY THERE, YOU'LL GET THE SAME GUARANTY. YOU CAN GO TO THE REGULATORS AND SAY THIS IS SAFE MONEY, THIS IS A GOOD INVESTMENT.

Glover: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU. HOW CAN YOU SERIOUSLY ARGUE THAT WHAT THE LEGISLATURE IS DOING IS GOING TO HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON A MUCH LARGER ECONOMY THAT'S BEING DRIVEN BY MUCH LARGER ECONOMIC FORCES? ISN'T THIS OFF OF CAMPAIGN BROCHURE STUFF?

McKibben: OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT, MIKE. ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'M NOT UP FOR ELECTION THIS YEAR, SO I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A CAMPAIGN.

Glover: A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE ARE.

McKibben: AND I WAS WORKING ON THIS BEFORE IT BECAME A CAMPAIGN BROCHURE FOR MCKIBBEN. THE COMPONENT OF THE ANGEL CAPITAL, THE FIRST SEED CAPITAL BILL, WE MET WITH THE GOVERNOR'S REPRESENTATIVES LAST MONDAY. WE ARE WORKING WITH MINORITY MEMBERS IN OUR CHAMBER ON THAT BILL. IT'S AN EXCELLENT -- WE'VE GOT ANOTHER PIECE THAT DELAYS THE INCOME TAXATION ON INCOME FOR START-UP COMPANIES. FOR EXAMPLE, YOU START A NEW COMPANY, WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO ELECT TO DEFER YOUR PROFITS OUT FOR THREE YEARS AND THEN AVERAGE THOSE FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS SO THAT WE WILL INCENT YOU TO GROW YOUR BUSINESS. THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPONENTS, MIKE, AND WE'VE GOT TO PUT THOSE TOGETHER IN A VERY TOUGH BUDGET YEAR. BUT I THINK THE KEY THING IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEND A SIGNAL TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE A FLY-OVER STATE AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE A HOLE IN THE DONUT.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, ADDRESS THIS ISSUE THAT'S SORT OF BEEN TALKED ABOUT HERE TODAY, AND THAT IS THE SMALL BUSINESS. IT SEEMS LIKE AWFULLY BIG STUFF, AWFULLY COMPLICATED STUFF. WHAT'S IT GOING TO DO FOR THE SMALL MOM AND POP BUSINESSES OF IOWA.

McKibben: GOING BACK TO THE -- AND REALLY THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THANKS FOR THE FOLLOW UP. IT TRAILS OFF OF THE ANGEL. THE ANGEL IS THE START-UP. A LOT OF OUR COMMUNITIES ARE ALREADY -- AND DEAN ASKED THAT QUESTION: WHAT CAN I DO FOR SMALL AMOUNTS OF INVESTMENT? A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE ALREADY STARTING FUNDS IN THEIR -- AMES IN STORY COUNTY HAS ALREADY STARTED THEIR LOCAL FUND. WE MET WITH SOME AMES REPRESENTATIVES. THIS BILL THAT WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER THAT WE BELIEVE WE HAVE AGREEMENT WITH FROM THE GOVERNOR AND REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ IN THE HOUSE WILL INCENT PEOPLE TO PUT SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY INTO FUNDS ON A LOCAL BASIS AND ALL OUR COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

Glover: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, I'D LIKE BOTH YOU AND REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ TO APPROACH THIS QUESTION FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. THERE'S A $450-MILLION BUDGET SHORTFALL IN THIS STATE. GIVEN THAT -- GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE STATE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR POOR PEOPLE AND PAY WHAT IT PROMISED TO EDUCATION, HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT GIVING MONEY TO BUSINESSES?

McKibben: I DON'T THINK WE CAN AFFORD NOT TO TALK ABOUT GROWING THE ECONOMY, MIKE. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT IN A BIPARTISAN BASIS. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT WITH A GOVERNOR THAT I THINK BELIEVES AND UNDERSTANDS THE SAME THING. WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO LOSE STUDENTS. WE CAN'T CONTINUE -- IF WE DON'T HAVE BUSINESSES, IF WE DON'T HAVE PROPERTY TAXPAYERS AND WE DON'T HAVE SCHOOLS AND WE DON'T HAVE EMPLOYEES AND WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN. WHICH CAME FIRST, THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, COMING AT IT FROM THE OTHER PERSPECTIVE: AT A TIME OF ECONOMIC RECESSION, ECONOMIC TOUGH TIMES, SHOULDN'T YOU BE DOING MORE TO HELP BUSINESSES TO CUT TAXES?

Shoultz: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING, DEFINITELY, IS TRYING TO CREATE GROWTH IN THE BUSINESS IN THE STATE. THERE'S NO DOUBT. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO DO. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE CANNOT DO THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE TREASURY IMMEDIATELY. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT WE WOULD HAVE FOR ANY OF THESE TAX INCENTIVE TAX CUTS OR TAX PROPOSALS OR DEFERMENTS WE HAVE: WILL IT HURT THE TREASURY THIS YEAR COMING UP? THE VENTURE CAPITAL WILL NOT. THERE ARE SOME OTHER ONES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT WILL DEFER TAXES THAT WILL NOT AFFECT IT AT THIS TIME, BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE TO BE THERE. THERE'S $109 MILLION THAT SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO COME UP WITH. THE GOVERNOR HAS HAD SOME PROPOSALS FOR WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS SHORTFALL IN MEDICAID THAT IF WE DON'T TAKE CARE OF, A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET HEALTH CARE. THERE'S A LOT OF HOSPITALS THAT ARE GOING TO BE CLOSING. A LOT OF CLINICS, A LOT OF CHIROPRACTORS, DENTISTRY WILL BE HURT BY THIS BECAUSE WE'RE CUTTING THOSE REIMBURSEMENT RATES BY 13.2 PERCENT. FORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND HOW DIRE THIS IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE DELAYED THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT 13.2 PERCENT CUT, BUT NOBODY HAS COME UP WITH THE MONEY YET. THE GOVERNOR HAS MADE SUGGESTIONS BUT THEY'VE ALL BEEN TURNED DOWN.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS HERE AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER TAX POLICY ISSUE THAT'S IN FRONT OF THE LEGISLATURE. THERE IS A BILL FLOATING AROUND TO DEAL WITH LOCAL OPTION SALES TAXES. MANY RURAL COMMUNITIES FEEL THAT IT IS UNFAIR THAT THEY HAVE -- WHEN THEY GO TO A LARGE URBAN AREA AND SHOP, THEY'RE PAYING A LOCAL OPTION SALES TAX FOR SCHOOLS. THERE'S A PROPOSAL TO RAISE THE SALES TAX STATEWIDE TO DEDICATE MONEY FOR SCHOOLS AND FOR PROPERTY TAX RELIEF. HOW WILL THAT BILL FARE IN THE SENATE?

McKibben: RIGHT NOW I THINK THE BILL IS GOING TO BE -- IF IT IT ORIGINATES, IT'S GOING TO ORIGINATE OVER ON THE HOUSE SIDE FIRST. I HAVE REALLY TWO OR THREE CONCERNS. ONE, RAISING TAXES IN A TIME OF ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY. THAT IS A CONCERN. NATIONALLY, WE KNOW THAT THE CONGRESS IS WORKING ON A STIMULUS PACKAGE. NUMBER TWO, SALES TAXES ARE REGRESSIVE TAXES ON WORKING FAMILIES. WE TRIED TO CHANGE THAT LAST YEAR WHEN WE ELIMINATED SALES TAXES ON UTILITIES OR PHASED THAT OUT AS AN ECONOMIC NECESSITY. AND THIRD, WILL IT GO TO REAL PROPERTY TAX RELIEF OR IS IT JUST AN ADDITIONAL SPENDING PROGRAM? THOSE QUESTIONS HAVE GOT TO BE ANSWERED. THE LEGISLATION IS STILL BEING FORMULATED. AS PEOPLE KNOW, THOSE QUESTIONS ARE OUT THERE. HOW ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS THEM ALL AND GET A BILL THAT IS LIVABLE?

Yepsen: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, THE BILL STARTS IN THE HOUSE, RIGHT? HOW WILL IT FARE? WHAT'S YOUR POSITION ON IT?

Shoultz: I THINK IT'S A NONSTARTER. I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO START IN THE HOUSE BECAUSE, AS LARRY SAID, IT IS RAISING TAXES. AND THERE ARE PEOPLE TAKING SOME PRETTY STRONG POSITIONS ON RAISING TAXES. NOW, THERE ARE -- I HAVE NOT LIKED THIS IDEA BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF THE STATE EVER NEEDS MORE REVENUE, ONE MORE CENT IN THE SALES TAX IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE MOST ACCEPTABLE WAY TO DO IT. IF WE DO IT RIGHT NOW FOR SCHOOLS, WE'VE LOST THAT OPPORTUNITY. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, EVEN THOUGH OUR ECONOMY HAS FLATTENED OUT A LITTLE BIT, IT'S STILL GROWTH, BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE REVENUE. WE'VE GOT LESS REVENUE COMING IN THAN WE'VE HAD IN TAKING A THREE-YEAR AVERAGE IN FIFTY YEARS. I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH THE ECONOMY HAS GROWN AND ITS FLATTENED OUT A LITTLE BIT, WE'RE STILL IN TROUBLE.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, AMUSED AS THOUGH WE MAY BE BY HEARING A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN TALK ABOUT THE REGRESSIVITY OF THE SALES TAX --

Shoultz: YEAH, I LOVED THAT. THAT'S GOOD, LARRY. THANK YOU.

Glover: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THIS. FIFTY-FOUR PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE RIGHT NOW LIVE IN A COUNTY WHICH HAS A LOCAL OPTION SALES TAX. IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE AN URBAN LEGISLATOR, YOUR CONSTITUENTS ARE PROBABLY PAYING THE SALES TAX.

Shoultz: THAT'S RIGHT.

Glover: THE FARM BUREAU HAS ADVOCATED THIS. THE URBAN EDUCATION NETWORK HAS ADVOCATED THIS. AREN'T THE POLITICS OF THIS PRETTY GOOD RIGHT NOW?

Shoultz: YEAH, IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IN THE POLL THAT "THE REGISTER" TOOK, I BELIEVE IT WAS 64 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE SAID THAT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA. I THINK THAT'S AN INDICATION OF HOW MUCH THEY FEEL THE NEED IS FOR IMPROVING THE FUNDING FOR EDUCATION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THE WAY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IT. BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT, I'VE TAKEN A POSITION THAT IT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA. I DIDN'T LIKE THE ORIGINAL LOCAL OPTION TAX BECAUSE ALL IT DID WAS TAKE A VERY INEQUITABLE SYSTEM AND MAKE IT MORE INEQUITABLE FOR EVERYBODY. AND THAT'S NOT THE KIND OF POLITICS I LIKE TO PLAY. I LIKE TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S EQUITABLE FOR PEOPLE.

Glover: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, LET'S TURN -- LET'S PUT THE MERITS OF THE ISSUE ASIDE AND GO TO THE POLITICS OF IT. AREN'T THE POLITICS OF THIS PRETTY GOOD RIGHT NOW? I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A CONSERVATIVE GROUP LIKE THE FARM BUREAU AND A FAIRLY LIBERAL GROUP LIKE URBAN EDUCATION NETWORK. MOST URBAN LEGISLATORS COULD CARE LESS. THEIR CONSTITUENTS ARE ALREADY PAYING IT.

McKibben: WELL, LIKE I THINK I TOLD YOU EARLIER, I'M NOT UP FOR ELECTION IN THIS CYCLE. AND MIKE, I'M BEING A LITTLE FACETIOUS THERE, BUT AS A CITIZEN LEGISLATOR, I'M COMMITTED TO DO WHAT I THINK IS THE BEST THING FOR ALL OF THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE OF IOWA. I AM ABSOLUTELY WILLING TO LOOK AT THIS AND I'VE TOLD ALL THE CONSTITUENT GROUPS I'M WILLING TO LOOK AT THIS BILL. I, FIRST OF ALL, HAVEN'T SEEN THE BILL YET. THERE'S NOT A BILL. THERE'S A VISION -- THERE'S THIS CLOUD IN THE SKY THAT WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT. BUT I WANT TO TELL YOU, WHEN I TALK TO MY CAUCUS AND I TALK TO THE MINORITY CAUCUS IN THE SENATE, IT'S AS REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ SAID, EVERYBODY HAS GOT A LITTLE DIFFERENT SPIN ON WHAT THEY REALLY WANT IT TO BE. SHOW ME THE BILL AND THEN WE'LL START TALKING.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, YOU'RE A LAWYER. ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE IS THAT MANY SMALL SCHOOLS SAY WE ARE CREATING AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL DISPARITY BETWEEN URBAN SCHOOLS THAT GET THIS MONEY AND RURAL SCHOOLS. DO YOU THINK -- AND THEY'RE THREATENING A LAWSUIT AND THEY HAVE THREATENED THAT SUIT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS. DO YOU THINK WE'RE HEADED TOWARD AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL SITUATION IN IOWA?

McKibben: NO, I'M NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR. I'M A TAX LAWYER. BUT MY -- IN MY STUDY OF IT AND WHAT I'VE READ ABOUT IT, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT IN THE AREA OF BUILDING BUILDINGS, IN THAT PART OF THE FUNDING, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION. I THINK THEIR SUIT WILL BE WITHOUT MERIT. WE HAVE A FORMULA IN THIS STATE THAT'S WORKED WELL FOR FUNDING. THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A LOCAL RESPONSIBILITY, NOT A RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE. WE'VE PAID FOR THE TEACHERS AND THE CURRICULUM AND THAT TYPE OF THING. THE EQUITY THERE IS ALWAYS THERE IN THAT EVERY COUNTY CAN PASS THE BILL. SOME COUNTIES HAVE. SOME HAVE TRIED. SOME HAVE FAILED. I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT BATTLE TO SAY THAT DOESN'T DO EQUITY.

Glover: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, LET'S TURN TO A LARGER BUDGET QUESTION. YOU AND REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ HAVE A HEAVY HAND IN THE REVENUE SIDE OF THE STATE'S BUDGET, AND THE STATE IS FACING A SHORTFALL, AS WE SAID, OF ABOUT $450 MILLION. AREN'T YOU EVENTUALLY GOING TO NEED MORE REVENUE, CALL IT A TAX INCREASE, TO BALANCE THIS BUDGET?

McKibben: WE'RE GOING TO NEED MORE REVENUE, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE'RE WORKING ON GROWING BUSINESS AND GROWING THE BASE THAT WILL DEVELOP THE REVENUE, RATHER THAN ADDING THE TAX ON TOP OF THE TAXPAYERS IN A TIME OF ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY. I'M NOT ABOUT TO DO THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, MIKE, YOU WILL SEE THAT IN AS MANY AS 40 TO 50 OF THE STATES IN THIS COUNTRY, THEY HAVE GROWN THEIR BUDGETS IN STATES TWO TO THREE TIMES THE RATE OF INFLATION IN THEIR ECONOMIES. IT'S BEEN GOOD TIMES. WE HAD A BUBBLE ECONOMY IN THE '90S. WE GREW GOVERNMENT. WE DIDN'T ASK IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY A NEED VERSUS A WANT. IF SOMEBODY CAME WITH A WANT, WE FUNDED THE WANT. AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THE HARD THINGS TO PRIORITIZE AND SEPARATE THE NEEDS FROM THE WANTS WITHOUT BURDENING FURTHER THE SMALL BUSINESSES AND THE FAMILIES THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING.

Glover: REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ, IS THIS REALLY A DANCE THAT'S GOING TO GO ON ALL THIS YEAR, TO DANCE AROUND THE REALITY THAT TAXES ARE GOING TO GET RAISED AFTER THE ELECTION?

Shoultz: WELL, YOU CAN SEE ALREADY THAT PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT MORE REVENUE HAS TO COME IN. I BELIEVE IT WAS REPUBLICAN WILLARD JENKINS WHO SUGGESTED A FEE FOR USING OUR PARKS, AND SOMEONE ELSE WANTED US TO SELL OFF THE ICN AS A WAY OF GETTING MONEY AND THERE ARE -- THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS FIRST; PEOPLE BEGIN TO LOOK AT OTHER WAYS TO FUND THEIR PROPOSALS BY RAISING FEES OR DUMPING IT BACK ON THE PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, WHICH HAPPENS A LOT ALSO, LIKE WE DO WITH SCHOOLS ALL THE TIME. SO IT WILL BE A DANCE FOR THE WHOLE TIME. AND I DON'T EXPECT THAT WE WILL SEE ANY ACTUAL INCREASE IN TAXES, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME ENHANCING OF THE REVENUES IN OTHER WAYS.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, I WANT TO EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE BIT AND MAYBE PUSH IT A LITTLE BIT. WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? YOU'RE CHAIRMAN OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE. THAT MEANS IT'S YOUR JOB TO FIND THE WAYS AND THE MEANS FOR EVERYBODY TO DO EVERYTHING ELSE THEY WANT TO DO. WHAT SORT OF OPTIONS ARE YOU LOOKING AT? COULD YOU RAISE FEES? COULD YOU SELL THE ICN? COULD YOU DELAY THE PHASEOUT OF THE SALES TAX ON UTILITY BILLS? ARE THERE OPTIONS THAT YOU'RE TRULY THINKING ABOUT HERE TO TRY TO GET THE STATE SOME MORE REVENUE?

McKibben: WELL, DAVID, I THINK THAT BOTH THE WAYS AND THE MEANS AND THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEES -- AND I SAT ON THE APPROPRIATIONS AT THE SAME TIME. THIS IS GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT YEAR, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNOR. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK WITH HOUSE AND SENATE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY AND MINORITY LEADERSHIP TO LOOK AT ALL OF THESE KINDS OF THINGS. AND AS REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ HAS INDICATED, A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO BE ON THE TABLE. RIGHT NOW, FOR ME TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS PARTICULAR ENHANCEMENT OR THIS ENHANCEMENT IS GOING TO WORK, REPRESENTATIVE SHOULTZ MENTIONED SEVERAL OF THEM -- I'M GOING TO SAY THIS: THIS IS A TOUGH YEAR; IT'S A FLUID YEAR; WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP OUR MINDS OPEN. AND WE'RE WAITING FOR THE REVENUE ESTIMATING CONFERENCE TO SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE, AND THEN THE HARD WORK IS GOING TO REALLY BEGIN.

Yepsen: SO WE CAN'T GET YOU TO TRIAL BALLOON ANY ENHANCEMENTS RIGHT HERE.

McKibben: I REALLY CAN'T, DAVID, BECAUSE I'M FOCUSED ON THE GROWTH OF THIS.

Shoultz: I HEARD HIM SAY THAT IT'S ON THE TABLE ANYWAY.

McKibben: I THINK WE'LL HAVE TO -- WE'LL HAVE TO SAY THAT ANYTHING IS ON TABLE THIS YEAR. IT MAY NOT GET OFF THE TABLE.

Borg: THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, AND HE'S ALREADY PROPOSED TAKING SOME FROM THE ROAD USE TAX FUND, DIVERTING FUNDS FROM THERE, AND PAYING INTO THE EMERGENCY FUND. DO YOU SUPPORT BOTH THOSE?

Shoultz: WELL, WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE. THAT IS, TAKING SOME MONEY FROM THE ROAD USE TAX FUND AND PAYING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY WITH IT. AND YES, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE HAVING NO OTHER WAY OF DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN KEEP OUR INFRASTRUCTURE OF OUR TRANSPORTATION AND OUR EDUCATION AND OUR HEALTH CARE AND PROTECTION OF OUR CITIZENS, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Borg: QUICK RESPONSE. DO YOU SUPPORT BOTH THOSE TOO? McKibben: WELL, THE ROAD USE TAX FUND, I ABSOLUTELY -- I CANNOT SUPPORT. I BELIEVE THAT THE MAJOR CONNECTOR IS THE HIGHWAY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN IS KEY TO PART OF THE GROWTH.

Borg: THAT'S -- I'M SORRY THAT I HAVE TO STOP RIGHT THERE BECAUSE WE'RE OUT OF TIME, AS YOU'RE OUT OF MONEY. WE'LL BE TRACKING THE PROGRESS OF THOSE DELIBERATIONS THROUGHOUT THE SCHEDULE OF THE 90-DAY SESSION. AND WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH "IOWA PRESS" AT OUR SAME TIME: 6:30 FRIDAY NIGHT; NOON ON SUNDAY. UNTIL THEN, I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

Narrator: FUNDING FOR "IOWA PRESS" WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS" OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION ... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA ... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.