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CONGRESSMAN
LEONARD BOSWELL

(#3032)

March 28, 2003

Borg: AS U.S. MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN PRESS THE WAR IN IRAQ, MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ATTEMPT TO FORECAST THE IMMEDIATE AND FUTURE COSTS OF THAT CONFLICT. ASSESSMENTS AND A PERSPECTIVE FROM IOWA CONGRESSMAN LEONARD BOSWELL ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, MARCH 28 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: COALITION FORCES CONTINUE THEIR ADVANCE IN IRAQ, BUT LATE THIS WEEK PRESIDENT BUSH AGAIN CAUTIONED THE NATION AGAINST EXPECTING TOO MUCH TOO SOON. WHILE FEW DOUBT THAT THE COALITION ASSAULT WILL PREVAIL, TWO QUESTIONS LOOM LARGE: FIRST, HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO PREVAIL MILITARILY AND AT WHAT COST IN DOLLARS AND HUMAN LIVES; THE SECOND QUESTION INVOLVES TIME, WHICH LIKELY TO BE THIS NATION'S COMMITMENT IN YEARS, AND AGAIN IN LIVES AND DOLLARS AND REBUILDING. CONGRESSMAN LEONARD BOSWELL MAY NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS, BUT HE DOES HAVE UNIQUE INSIGHT. HE FLEW HELICOPTERS IN SOUTH VIETNAM DURING THAT WAR, SO HE CAN IDENTIFY QUITE CLOSELY WITH U.S. COMBAT TROOPS NOW IN IRAQ. AND IN CONGRESS NOW, HE SITS ON THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND HE'S THE RANKING DEMOCRAT ON THE HUMAN INTELLIGENCE SUBCOMMITTEE. CONGRESSMAN BOSWELL, WELCOME BACK TO "IOWA PRESS."

Boswell: THANK YOU, DEAN. IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE.

Borg: ACROSS THE TABLE: "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND "ASSOCIATED PRESS" SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER MIKE GLOVER.

Glover: CONGRESSMAN, AS DEAN MENTIONED, YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THESE MILITARY MATTERS. WHAT'S YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE PROGRESS OF THIS WAR? IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WE STARTED OFF WITH A EUPHORIC SLAM-DUNK SCENARIO. THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG ALMOST 180 DEGREES. IT'S GOING TO BE A TERRIBLY LONG, DRUG-OUT WAR. WHAT'S YOUR ASSESSMENT OF HOW THINGS ARE GOING?

Boswell: WELL, MIKE, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, AND I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. WHEN WE FIRST STARTED SEEING THE PLANS DEVELOPED AND PROMULGATED, IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE WE HAD AN EXPANSE OF DESERT TO TRAVEL ACROSS, AND I THOUGHT THAT WOULD GO FAIRLY RAPIDLY. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY FORCE THAT'S GOING TO MEET UP WITH US IN THAT SITUATION, TACTICS OR OTHERWISE. OUR EQUIPMENT, TRAINING: OUR TROOPS ARE WELL TRAINED; WE'VE GOT GREAT EQUIPMENT. I MIGHT JUST THROW OUT A LITTLE PIECE; SOMEBODY WAS ASKING ON THE AIRPLANE LAST NIGHT WE WERE FLYING. IN WORLD WAR II THE FIRST-ROUND HIT PERCENTAGE OF A TANK WEAPON WAS 50/50 OR LESS IN THE SEVEN-DAY WAR. MANY YEARS LATER -- AND NOW IT'S WELL OVER IN THE HIGH NINETIES. SO IT'S QUITE A CHANGE IN JUST THE TECHNOLOGY FROM THAT SENSE THERE. BUT I THINK WE SURELY ALL KNEW THAT WHEN WE GOT IN CLOSE TO BAGHDAD AND THE REPUBLICAN GUARD, THERE WERE SEVERAL DIVISIONS OF THAT. THAT'S A LOT OF TROOPS. THEY'RE WELL TRAINED. THEY'RE WELL EQUIPPED. I THINK THEY'RE FANATICAL THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO GET PRETTY TOUGH GOING THERE. AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE ON THE EDGE OF RIGHT NOW.

Glover: WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY EITHER IN TERMS OF TACTICS OR, PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY, IN TERMS OF PREPARING THE COUNTRY FOR THIS WAR?

Boswell: WELL, THAT'S A HARD QUESTION. I -- YOU KNOW, I -- DEAN MENTIONED I FLEW HELICOPTERS. ACTUALLY MY FINAL ASSIGNMENT IN THE ARMY WAS INSTRUCTOR OF DEPARTMENT OF TACTICS AT THE COMMAND GENERAL STAFF COLLEGE AT FORT LEAVENWORTH. SO I DO THINK ABOUT THAT QUITE A BIT. SOMETIMES THAT'S -- SOMETIMES KIND OF PLAGUING. I JUST CAN'T TURN IT OFF SOMETIMES. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS, AS MANY OTHERS DO, I'M SURE. I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WENT WITH A LITTLE HEAVIER FORCE. I THINK WE -- IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO IN THAT OPEN COUNTRY, THAT MORE ARMOR -- I KNOW THAT OUR SECRETARY -- AND I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO SECOND-GUESS HIM, BUT RUMSFELD CLEARLY THINKS LIGHT, QUICK, HIGH-TECH, AND THAT WILL DO IT. BUT IF YOU'RE GOING UP AGAINST A SIZABLE FORCE AND THEY'RE WELL DUG IN AND SO ON, WHY, I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO PUT THE RIGHT KIND OF FORCE TOGETHER TO TAKE IT ON. AND I THINK WE'RE GETTING THERE. I THINK MAYBE WE THOUGHT THAT WE'D GO A LITTLE BIT QUICKER THAN WHAT'S GOING ON. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU A MORE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. WHY IS THIS NECESSARY? YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT. MOST DEMOCRATS I TALK TO TODAY DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF THIS WAR. BUT YET YOU'RE A MEMBER OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, SO PRESUMABLY YOU KNOW SOME THINGS THE REST OF US DON'T AND YOU'RE A FORMER MILITARY MAN. SO GIVE ME AN IDEA -- TELL US WHY WE'VE GOT TO BE DOING THIS.

Boswell: WELL, I'D PROBABLY DONE THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENT TOO. BUT, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF HOW WE GOT THERE, WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE COMMITTED, WE'RE THERE, AND WE'VE GOT TO SUPPORT OUR BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN, THE TROOPS. WE'VE GOT TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS, AND I THINK ALL IOWANS DO. AND I WOULD HOPE THAT IF THEY'RE GOING TO CRITICIZE THE POLICY, WHICH IS FINE, WE'VE ALL DEFENDED THE RIGHT TO DO THAT AND I RESPECT THAT, BUT LET'S DON'T CRITICIZE THE TROOPS. AND SO WHAT -- I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH THE -- I DON'T KNOW WHY. I WAS IN A SMALL GROUP THAT TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT JUST BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS, AND WE HAD -- I'LL JUST GIVE YOU A RECAP ON THAT. I BASICALLY SAID TO HIM IN THE DIALOGUE THAT I HAD... "YOU GET A BRIEF, MR. PRESIDENT, EVERY DAY." AND THIS WAS A VERY CORDIAL DISCUSSION. "YOU GET BRIEFED EVER DAY. SO IF YOU'VE GOT INFORMATION THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS GOT HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER AND IS ABOUT TO DO SOMETHING TO US WITH MASS DESTRUCTION, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO RESPOND." THE FIRST RESPONSIBILITY IS TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IF YOU'RE AT THAT POINT, PUSH THE UNITED NATIONS, WHICH HE DID. I'LL GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR THAT. THAT'S THEIR CHARTER. IF THEY DON'T REACT AND YOU STILL THINK THERE'S THAT DANGER AND HE'S GOING TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON THAT MASS DESTRUCTION, YOU'VE JUST GOT TO DO SOMETHING, WHY, GET AS MANY ALLIES AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN GET, AND I THINK HE'S TRYING HARD TO DO THAT. I THINK THE TONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND THINK INTO THE FUTURE AND SO ON. BUT NEVERTHELESS, I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW WE'D FEEL HERE IN DES MOINES OR ANYWHERE ELSE -- IT'S NOT JUST NEW YORK OR WASHINGTON D.C. OR LOS ANGELES THAT'S A POTENTIAL TARGET WITH MASS DESTRUCTION, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL. LET ME FINISH. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A SOPHISTICATED DELIVERY SYSTEM. SO I'M VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND THIS SADDAM HUSSEIN IS -- I BELIEVE HE'S GOT THOSE KIND OF WEAPONS. I BELIEVE THAT. HE OBVIOUSLY -- HE'S USED THEM AND I BELIEVE HE'D MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO AL QAEDA OR ANY OTHER TERRORISTS, SO IT'S A SERIOUS MATTER. Yepsen: SO ARE YOU TROUBLED AT ALL BY THE FACT THAT WE HAVEN'T FOUND ANY OF THOSE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?

Boswell: I AM TROUBLED BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, AFTER THIS MANY YEARS I WOULD EXPECT THAT HE WOULD DISPERSE, DISMANTLE, HIDE THEM, MAYBE EVEN HAVE SOME OF THEM IN SOME OTHER ADJOINING PLACE, WHETHER IT BE IRAN OR SYRIA OR WHEREVER. BUT, YES, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WHERE THEY FIND SOME OF THEM. BUT DO I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE THERE? YES, I DO.

Borg: OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE MANY REPERCUSSIONS THAT WE CAN'T EVEN ANTICIPATE. BUT IS ONE THAT MIGHT CONCERN YOU THE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT THIS IS COSTING NOW AND IN THE FUTURE?

Boswell: OH, ABSOLUTELY, DEAN. WHEN WE DEBATED BUDGET -- AND I'LL GIVE CONGRESSMAN NUSSLE CREDIT. YOU KNOW, HE GOT A BUDGET OUT AND GOT IT IN FRONT OF US. BUT IF WE WERE DEBATING THAT BUDGET, THERE WAS NOT A LINE ITEM THERE FOR COST OF THIS WAR, AND THE WAR HAD ALREADY STARTED. AND THAT WAS PRETTY UNACCEPTABLE TO ME THAT WE'D HAVE THAT SITUATION. THE THOUGHT THAT WENT THROUGH MY MIND, WE'VE GOT YOUNG AMERICANS, MEN AND WOMEN OVER THERE, SOME OF THEM HAVE ALREADY MADE THE SUPREME SACRIFICE. THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO OVER THERE AND FIGHT THAT WAR. AND BECAUSE THE WAY WE'RE PLANNING OUR FUTURE FINANCIALLY, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME HOME AND PAY FOR IT. AND THAT'S NOT JUST RIGHT. SO I WOULD HOPE THAT SOMEHOW THAT WE WOULD COME TO GRIPS WITH THAT AS WE WOULD MOVE FORWARD ON THIS. BUT WE'RE ON THE BRINK OF THE LARGEST DEFICIT IN OUR HISTORY. THE DEBT INTEREST IS GETTING SO BIG RIGHT NOW. WITH THE FIGURES THAT ARE LYING OUT THERE ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW FROM 2004 TO 2008, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OVER A TRILLION DOLLARS IN INTEREST. THAT CERTAINLY AFFECTS OUR ECONOMY AND OUR FUTURE. WHETHER IT'S HEALTH CARE, WHETHER IT'S EDUCATION, OR WHATEVER IT IS, IT HAS A TERRIBLE, TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON US AND IT NEEDS OUR ATTENTION AS WELL.

Glover: CONGRESSMAN, AS THIS WAR UNFOLDS, THERE'S INCREASING DISCUSSION OF THE FUNDAMENTAL ASSUMPTIONS THAT WENT INTO THE STRATEGY FOR FIGHTING THIS WAR AND SOME INDICATION THAT THERE'S SOME DIVISION BETWEEN THE CIVILIAN LEADERSHIP AT THE PENTAGON AND THE MILITARY LEADERSHIP AT THE PENTAGON. THE FUNDAMENTAL STRATEGY APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN, WE'LL DROP A BOAT LOAD OF BOMBS ON THESE PEOPLE AND THEY'LL SURRENDER ON THE FIRST DAY. WAS THAT A GOOD STRATEGY?

Boswell: MIKE, YOU'RE ASKING GOOD QUESTIONS. THAT THOUGHT WENT THROUGH MY MIND, AND IT STILL DOES. YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE IDEA THAT WE COULD CARPET BOMB -- WE USED THE TERM WITH B-52 STRIKES CALLED ARCLIGHT IN VIETMAN. AND WHO WOULD EVER THINK ANYBODY COULD SURVIVE THAT? I WATCHED THEM. I'VE BEEN IN MY HELICOPTER OFF TO THE SIDE WHEN THEY BOMBED THE IDRANG AND THEY GOT READY TO -- WHEN THAT FIGHT WAS GOING ON, WHICH YOU'VE PROBABLY READ ABOUT, THE IDRANG VALLEY.

Glover: YOU ACTUALLY WALKED THROUGH IT.

Boswell: YEAH. WELL, I WATCHED THAT CARPET BOMBING GO ON THERE, AND I THOUGHT HOW ON EARTH CAN ANYBODY SURVIVE THAT! BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY DID AND THEY FOUGHT LIKE THEY JUST -- THEY WERE READY TO FIGHT WHEN THE FIRST CAB GOT THERE, AND WE SUFFERED A LOT OF CASUALTIES. SO TO THINK THAT WE COULD GO IN AND HIT AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE CARE OF IT, IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE DONE A LITTLE REVIEWING OF PAST --

Glover: WELL, IS IT YOUR SENSE THAT THE MILITARY LEADERS ARE BEING LISTENED TO?

Boswell: YOU KNOW, I'M NOT PRIVY TO THAT KIND OF INFORMATION. I DON'T KNOW. WHEN WE GET BRIEFED, WHICH WAS JUST TWO DAYS AGO, BY RUMSFELD AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINTS CHIEF OF STAFF, THEY SEEM LIKE THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER IN HARMONY AND SUPPORTIVE OF ONE ANOTHER. SO I'M GOING TO HAVE TO -- I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASSUME THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT REBUILDING. PRESUMABLY WE WIN THE WAR AND THERE WILL BE A RECONSTRUCTION PROCESS. WHO SHOULD DO THAT? SHOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THE UNITED STATES DOES, OR SHOULD THAT BE SOMETHING WE ASK THE U.N. TO HELP?

Boswell: WELL, WE OUGHT TO ASK OTHERS CERTAINLY TO HELP AND HELP BIG TIME. WE WILL, NO DOUBT -- THE SITUATION WILL HAVE TO HELP AS WELL. BUT THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HELP BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR REGION. THAT'S THEIR PART OF THE WORLD. THEY DEFINITELY SHOULD HELP. Yepsen: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO GO BACK TO THIS COST QUESTION. WE'VE GOT REBUILDING COSTS. WE'VE GOT COSTS OF THE WAR. YOU'VE JUST MENTIONED THIS HUGE DEFICIT. ISN'T IT TIME THAT WE RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR THIS WAR?

Boswell: WELL, I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE LOOK AT IT. RIGHT NOW WHEN THIS CURRENT BUDGET WAS PROPOSED, THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE PLUS TRILLION DOLLARS INVOLVED IN THAT, MOST OF IT GOING TO VERY WEALTHY AND -- I DON'T KNOW A LOT OF WEALTHY PEOPLE, BUT I KNOW A COUPLE OR SO. AND I FIND WHEN I TALK TO THEM THAT THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO WAIT ON THAT, TO POSTPONE, TO TAKE A LITTLE DEFERRAL UNTIL WE CAN DEAL WITH THIS. WE'VE GOT A LARGE DEFICIT. WE'VE GOT A WAR ON. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST IS GOING TO BE. WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE. AND IT SEEMS TO ME -- WELL, LIKE THE LEAD EDITORIAL IN "THE REGISTER" JUST A FEW DAYS AGO ABOUT US MAKING SOME SACRIFICE, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS VERY APPROPRIATE. AND I THINK WE ALL OUT TO BE SACRIFICING. I DON'T SENSE THAT AS I TRAVEL ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT -- PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS, SERIOUS MATTER IN OUR -- AT THIS POINT IN HISTORY. AND WE MUST WIN THIS AND WE MUST BRING IT TO CONCLUSION AS QUICK AS WE CAN. AND, YES, GO AHEAD. Yepsen: LET ME ASK -- LET ME FOLLOW UP THERE. ALL RIGHT. WHAT SORT OF TAX INCREASE DO YOU WANT? DO YOU JUST WANT TO FORGO THE '01 TAX CUTS, THE '03 TAX CUTS?

Boswell: OH, DAVID, NOW, THERE YOU GO. NOW, I'M NOT SUGGESTING A TAX INCREASE. I'M SUGGESTING THAT WE COULD LOOK AT WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN PASSED THROUGH AND COULD DELAY, TO DEFER ON SOME OF THAT FOR THE VERY WEALTHY UNTIL WE CAN KIND OF GET OUR BEARINGS AND SEE WHERE WE'RE AT. THIS PROPOSED -- THIS NEXT ROUND OF ONE TRILLION PLUS, PROBABLY ABOUT 50 PERCENT OF IOWANS ONLY GET ABOUT $100 OUT OF IT. THAT'S NOT GOING TO FUSE IN THE ECONOMY AND CAUSE THE ECONOMY TO JUMP FORWARD. AND I THINK THAT, AGAIN, AS I TALK TO THOSE THAT ARE VERY WEALTHY, THEY SAY, "HEY, THERE'S A WAR GOING ON. WE'VE GOT A SERIOUS SITUATION HERE. WE BETTER GET THAT STRAIGHTENED OUT."

Glover: HEADING INTO THIS WAR, THERE WAS A BIG DEBATE IN THE UNITED NATIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE WAR OUGHT TO HAPPEN. NOW THAT THE WAR IS GOING ON, THERE'S A BIG DEBATE BETWEEN BRITAIN AND THE UNITED STATES ABOUT WHAT ROLE THE UNITED NATIONS OUGHT TO PLAY IN REBUILDING IRAQ. WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED NATIONS? HAS THAT INSTITUTION MAINTAINED ITS RELEVANCE? WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN?

Boswell: WELL, I THINK IT'S AT A CRITICAL POINT, MIKE, AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE. I THINK THE UNITED NATIONS HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL, BUT THEIR CHARTER IS TO DEAL WITH THESE ROGUE PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE PEOPLE AS A UNIFIED FORCE AND AS AN EFFORT, AND THEY HAVEN'T DEMONSTRATED THAT VERY WELL IN THIS SITUATION. SO I DON'T KNOW.

Borg: WELL, LET'S BRING UP, THEN, NORTH KOREA IS ANOTHER FESTERING POINT, FLASH POINT. WHAT SHOULD BE -- ARE WE LEARNING ANYTHING FROM WHAT WE DID IN IRAQ WITH THE U.N. ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN THE WORLD COMMUNITY OR THE UNITED STATES LEADING IT WITH NORTH KOREA?

Boswell: WELL, THAT'S A GOOD POINT TOO, DEAN. I JUST GOT BACK LAST JANUARY WHEN I ENTERED PARLIAMENTARY EXCHANGE TO CHINA, AND I HAD OCCASION TO TALK TO PEOPLE THAT DO WHAT I DO IN CHINA. AND WE HAD QUITE AN INTERESTING TRIP. WE BROUGHT THAT QUESTION UP EVERY STOP, WHETHER IT WAS HONG KONG, SHENZHEN, BEIJING.

Borg: WHAT QUESTION?

Boswell: ABOUT KOREA -- NORTH KOREA AND THE ATOMIC SITUATION AND THEIR NUCLEAR EFFORTS. AND I DID NOT GET A DIRECT RESPONSE. BUT IF READING BODY LANGUAGE AND THINGS THAT THEY DID SAY OR THEY DID NOT SAY, I CONCLUDE THAT THEY DON'T WANT NORTH KOREA TO HAVE A LOT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THEIR BACK DOOR. Yepsen: WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

Boswell: WELL, I'M SAYING THAT MAYBE THEY'LL BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THEY WOULD HAVE SOME CLOUT AND --

Borg: YOU MEAN RED CHINA.

Boswell: YES. THEY DON'T WANT THAT TO BE THERE. IT'S CLEAR THEY AS MUCH AS SAID THAT, SO I ASSUME THAT THEY WILL ACT WITH -- WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TALKING TO THEM AND SEE WHAT THEY MAY DO. BUT THIS WORRIES ME QUITE A BIT.

Glover: IF RED CHINA MOVES TO ATTACK NORTH KOREA, WHAT SHOULD THE UNITED STATES DO?

Boswell: WELL, I DON'T KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO ATTACK THEM. I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAPPEN. RED CHINA HAS GOT 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE. I DON'T THINK THAT THE LITTLE COUNTRY OF NORTH KOREA IS GOING TO TAKE THAT ON. SO I WOULD GUESS THAT IF CHINA DECIDES THAT THEY ALL --

Glover: IF CHINA DECIDES THEY DON'T WANT NUCLEAR WEAPONS THERE, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO --

Boswell: WELL, CHINA HAS GOT NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT ALL THE -- THEY'VE GOT ALL THE NUCLEAR EFFORT. I DON'T THINK THE NORTH KOREANS ARE GOING TO TAKE ON CHINA. Yepsen: IS IT MORE LIKELY --

Glover: WHAT HAPPENS IF THE CHINESE DECIDE THEY DON'T LIKE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THEIR DOOR STEP AND DECIDE TO TAKE THEM OUT, MUCH LIKE THE UNITED STATES ARE DOING IN IRAQ TODAY?

Boswell: I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'D GO ABOUT TAKING THEM OUT, MIKE, BUT I DO HOPE THAT THEY GIVE THAT SOME ATTENTION. Yepsen: WILL THE JAPANESE HAVE A ROLE THERE TO PLAY?

Boswell: OH, WITH THE JAPANESE SO CLOSE, HOW COULD THEY NOT HAVE? YOU KNOW, AND I HAVE GIVEN NO THOUGHT TO WHAT THEY WOULD DO. I JUST KNOW THIS, THAT THE JAPANESE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CONCERNED. Yepsen: I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS TO HOMELAND SECURITY. LAST WEEK YOU AND SENATOR EDWARDS PROPOSED A $50-BILLION PLAN TO PROVIDE AID TO THE STATES FOR HOMELAND SECURITY. NOW, I'M SURE YOUR FRIEND THE GOVERNOR LIKES THAT IDEA, BUT WHERE DO YOU GET THE MONEY FOR IT?

Boswell: WELL, WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED TO GO IN AND DO SOME -- TO TAKE IT FROM SOME PLACES, YOU KNOW. AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD SUGGEST -- AND WE'VE DONE IT BUT WE'LL GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT IS -- YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MONEY WENT INTO AGRICULTURE. AND I'M AN AGRICULTURAL PERSON FROM IOWA. YOU KNOW I AM. BUT THE PAYMENTS TO THESE MEGAFARMS, CORPORATE FARMS, FACTORY FARMS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, WE OUGHT TO GET SOME CAPS ON THAT. AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF MONEY GOING OUT TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT, GIVING GOVERNMENT SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO DO THINGS, AND THERE'S SOME PLACES TO GET SOME MONEY. Yepsen: SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THIS THROUGH CUTS AS WELL AS POSTPONING THE TAX CUTS.

Boswell: YEAH. I THINK THAT THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE. WE'VE GOT TO DO SOME CONVINCING, BUT I DO BELIEVE IT'S THERE AND WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT. I'M NOT SUGGESTING GO ADD TO THE DEFICIT. I THINK THAT WE CAN MAKE THE ADJUSTMENT.

Glover: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PACKAGE A LITTLE BIT. ONE OF THE THINGS, AS DAVE MENTIONED, THAT IT DOES IS IT GIVES THE STATE SOME MONEY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY, BUT IT ALSO GIVES THE STATE SOME MONEY FOR SOME OTHER THINGS AS WELL. WHAT ELSE DOES IT DO?

Boswell: WELL, MEDICAID, YOU KNOW. IF -- A GOOD CHUNK OF IT WOULD GO TO ASSIST WITH MEDICAID COSTS, AND THIS IS A HEAVY PRESSURE ON THE STATES. AND YOU'RE WORKING UP ON THE HILL. YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON UP THERE, AND IT'S A BIG CONCERN. OUR GOVERNOR HAS CERTAINLY TALKED TO US ABOUT IT AS A DELEGATION, AND THE OTHER GOVERNORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. SO THIS WOULD BE VERY -- VERY IMPORTANT TO DO THAT. AND THE HOMELAND SECURITY, THAT'S A HUMONGOUS UNFUNDED MANDATE THAT'S GOING ON, AND THE LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND AND YOU JUST START GOING DOWN THE LIST. SO ABOUT 40 PERCENT -- 20 PERCENT WOULD BE FOR THE HOMELAND SECURITY, ABOUT 20 PERCENT FOR MEDICAID, THE REST OF IT FOR THE STATES TO DECIDE. THEY WOULD KNOW BEST WHERE THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THESE UNFUNDED MANDATES, AND I THINK THEY NEED HELP.

Glover: BUT THE FUNDAMENTAL UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION BEHIND THIS LEGISLATION IS THAT CONGRESS HAS ORDERED STATES TO DO THINGS WITHOUT PROVIDING THEM MONEY TO DO IT.

Boswell: OH, YEAH. AND THAT'S -- THAT'S JUST -- THAT IS -- THAT IS JUST UNACCEPTABLE AND I'VE TRIED TO MAKE THAT POINT. I CERTAINLY LEARNED IT WHEN I WAS UP THERE ON THE HILL AS APPROPRIATIONS CHAIR AND AS PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT GOES ON THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. AND WE -- THIS WOULD BE A WAY TO REPAIR SOME OF THAT. Yepsen: IS THIS WAR CROWDING OUT OTHER PRIORITIES IN CONGRESS? I MEAN WE'VE SPENT OUR WHOLE PROGRAM TALKING ABOUT THE WAR. CONGRESS SPENDS A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE WAR. WHAT ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM? WHAT ABOUT EDUCATION?

Boswell: WELL, DAVID, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. IT'S CROWDING OUT -- THE ECONOMY IS WHAT YOU OUGHT TO BE HEARING ABOUT. NOW THE WAR IS GOING ON, SO THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING ABOUT THERE NOW. BUT UP UNTIL A FEW DAYS AGO, PEOPLE'S CONCERN WAS, YEAH, THERE'S CONCERN ABOUT THAT BECAUSE OF THE BUILDUP AND THE PREPARATIONS, BUT THE ECONOMY IS -- WELL, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS UNFUNDED MANDATES AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE SIDE OF IT AND THIS DISPARITY IN MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT? WELL, I'M GETTING READY TO REINTRODUCE THE FAIRNESS ACT, WHICH IS A 5-PERCENT ABOVE WHAT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS WHICH, IF ENACTED, WOULD BE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT FOR IOWA. BUT WE'VE GOT TO GET SOMETHING GOING, AND I DO HAVE SOME HOPES. YOU KNOW, OUR SENIOR SENATOR, SENATOR GRASSLEY, CHAIRS THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. AND I JUST HOPE THAT HE CAN GET SOMETHING STARTED, AND I'LL CERTAINLY FIGHT TO KEEP IT GOING ON THE HOUSE SIDE, OTHERS WILL TOO. Yepsen: ALL RIGHT. SPEAK TO THE MEDICAID THING FOR A MOMENT. WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT? WE'VE BEEN HEARING OUT OF YOU, CONGRESSMAN, AND THIS DELEGATION FOR YEARS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. IT HAS NOT HAPPENED. ARE OUR PROSPECTS ANY BETTER THIS TIME?

Boswell: DAVID, I DON'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER FOR THAT. I JUST KNOW THIS: IF YOU DON'T TRY, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T TRY. SO THERE'S EFFORT HERE AND IN TALKING WITH SENATOR EDWARDS ABOUT THIS, THIS HAVING -- BEFORE I HAD MY FIRST TALK WITH SENATOR EDWARDS, TALKING WITH GOVERNOR VILSACK, AND THIS IS A BIG ITEM. AND WE'RE NOT DOING WHAT'S RIGHT THERE, AND WE SHOULD. AND THESE HUMONGOUS UNFUNDED MANDATES, WE'VE GOT TO TAKE IT ON, AND THERE SEEMS TO NOT BE A WILLINGNESS TO DO IT IN SOME CORNERS, BUT WE OUGHT TO DO IT.

Glover: WELL, BUILDING ON DAVE'S QUESTION, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT FIXING MEDICAID, THE STATES ARE UNDER PRESSURE, IOWA GETS A LOUSY REIMBURSEMENT RATE, IOWA IS DEAD LAST IN THE NATION ON MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT. BUT FIXING THOSE PROBLEMS, EVERY RATIONAL PERSON WILL AGREE, TAKES A LOT OF MONEY. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY NOW. YOU'VE GOT THE BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY.

Boswell: BUT WE NEED TO START. AND YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY, MIKE, MANY TIMES, IF YOU CAN'T HAVE THE WHOLE LOAF, GET A SLICE OF IT AND GET STARTED. AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK WE CAN DO NOW, AND WE OUGHT TO GET STARTED TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE STATES, PARTICULARLY OURS, THAT WE RECOGNIZE WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I'M JUST THANKFUL WE GOT IT OUT ON THE TABLE. THE FIRST FOUR YEARS I WAS OUT THERE, I COULDN'T GET ANYBODY TO TALK ABOUT IT. AND THROUGH THE FLUKE OF PENNSYLVANIA/NEW YORK, WHICH I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO READDRESS, BUT I'VE GOT A CHANCE TO DRAW ATTENTION TO IT. AND THANKS TO THE MEDIA, THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS AWARE NOW THAT THERE ARE SOME REAL DISCREPANCIES GOING ON, AND IT'S UNFAIR BECAUSE WE PAY THE SAME TAXES BUT WE DON'T GET THE SAME TREATMENT BACK.

Borg: IN MEDICARE IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Boswell: YEAH.

Borg: DAVE? Yepsen: WELL, GOING BACK TO THIS DEFICIT THING, MIKE IS RIGHT, WE'RE LOOKING AT RECORD DEFICITS. YET AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT, OUR GDP, THEY'RE RELATIVELY SMALL. SO IS THIS SOMETHING WE REALLY OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN WE'VE GOT TO GET THE ECONOMY GOING AND WE'VE GOT A WAR TO FIGHT?

Boswell: DAVID, THINK ABOUT IT. FOUR YEARS OVER A TRILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF DEBT TAX, IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT THAT WAY, THE INTEREST ON THE DEBT IS NO SMALL MATTER. AND TO SAY THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO FUTURE GENERATIONS I THINK IS IRRESPONSIBLE. WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE YOUR KIDS AND MY GRANDKIDS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS. AND, AGAIN, I SAID EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM, THESE TROOPS OVER THERE, THEY'RE PUTTING THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK AND PICK UP THE BILL AND THAT'S WRONG. WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT IN THE UNITED STATES.

Borg: EARLIER I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THERE MAY BE SOME MONEY BY PUTTING CAPS ON PAYMENTS UNDER THE FARM PROGRAM TO THE LARGER RECIPIENTS THERE, THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME MONEY THAT WOULD GO TO HOMELAND SECURITY. BUT I'VE ALSO HEARD SOME CRITICISM OF THE FACT THAT THE BUSH PROPOSED BUDGET DOES NOT FUND SOME OF THE ASPECTS OF THE CURRENT FARM PROGRAM FULLY.

Boswell: WELL, THAT'S TRUE.

Borg: ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT?

Boswell: WELL, IT'S MOVED AROUND INSIDE OF IT. SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SENATOR HARKIN FOUGHT SO HARD FOR -- AND I CERTAINLY SUPPORTED HIM AND CERTAINLY THE FARMERS OF IOWA AND PRODUCERS, EVERYBODY IN AGRICULTURE THOUGHT, IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY, IT WAS GREAT ON CONSERVATION. AND SO SOME OF THAT IS BEING SHIFTED OVER TO PAY FOR OTHER MATTERS WITHIN THE SYSTEM AND --

Borg: WITH YOUR SUPPORT?

Boswell: NO, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD DO THAT. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CONSERVATION, AGAIN, THAT'S INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE TO CONSERVE THIS LAND AND THE WATER AND THE AIR AND THE SOIL, AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T SHORTCHANGE. YOU LET THAT GO ON DOWN THE RIVER, SO TO SPEAK, IT'S GONE. SO IT NEEDS ATTENTION AND THAT'S NOT THE PLACE TO DO IT.

Glover: CONGRESSMAN, LET'S SHIFT GEARS FOR A SECOND. IT WOULDN'T BE AN OFFICIAL "IOWA PRESS" PROGRAM IF WE DIDN'T GET INTO POLITICS JUST A LITTLE BIT. THERE'S A PRETTY SPIRITED PRIMARY BATTLE GOING IN YOUR PARTY FOR YOUR PARTY'S PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION.

Boswell: TRUE.

Glover: HANDICAP THAT FOR ME. WHO'S HOT AND WHO'S NOT RIGHT NOW?

Boswell: WELL, I THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL, MIKE. YOU MAY HAVE AN OPINION, SO I'M GOING TO MAYBE ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

Glover: THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE QUESTIONS FLOW ON THE SHOW. Yepsen: WE ASK THE QUESTIONS.

Boswell: WELL, THAT'S UNTIL I COME ON BOARD. [ LAUGHTER ]

Boswell: BUT HERE'S WHAT I SAY TO OUR -- TO THE PEOPLE OF IOWA AND TO MY COLLEAGUES, BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE NOT SURE THAT WE OUGHT TO BE DOING THIS. BUT I SAY, LOOK, WE'RE A SMALL STATE, LESS THAN THREE MILLION PEOPLE, AND THEY CAN COME OUT HERE AND FIND OUT THAT WE'RE EDUCATED PEOPLE, WE CARE, WE'RE INTERESTED, AND WE'LL ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS. JUST LIKE ME, I'M GETTING EVERY ONE THEM. I'M CONFRONTING THEM: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT OUR MEDICARE DEFICIT, AND ARE YOU WILLING TO HELP DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, MAYBE ALL BUT THE LATEST HAVE COMMITTED. THEY KNOW ABOUT IT AND THEY'LL TRY TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP US. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DO. WE'LL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY AS IOWANS, BECAUSE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS WATCHING US, TO DO OUR RESPONSIBILITY AND DEMONSTRATE TO THEM WHAT WE THINK AS THIS COMES TO CLOSURE. SO THERE'S SEVERAL IN THE FIELD AND THERE MAY BE MORE COMING IN THE FIELD.

Glover: THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS THAT FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR HOWARD DEAN IS PRETTY HOT RIGHT NOW. THERE WAS A POLL LAST WEEK THAT SHOWED HIM IN A VIRTUAL DEAD HEAT WITH JOHN KERRY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. HE'S PICKING UP SOME STEAM, PEOPLE SAY, IN IOWA. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ATTRIBUTE THAT TO HIS ANTIWAR STANCE. DO YOU THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT?

Boswell: IT COULD BE. THERE'S A LOT OF STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT THE WAR. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. AND THAT'S -- AS I TOLD SOMEBODY THAT WAS DEMONSTRATING DOWN AT ONE OF THE HOTELS THAT I JUST HAD AN EVENT IN JUST RECENTLY, I SAID, "I HAVE PUT MYSELF ON THE LINE TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO DO THIS, SO I'M NOT BOTHERED ABOUT YOU BEING HERE. YOU'RE WELCOME TO BE HERE. BUT THE THING OF IT IS, REGARDLESS OF HOW WE GOT THERE, WE ARE IN THIS CONFLICT NOW AND WE NEED TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS." Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN POLITICAL FUTURE. IN 1998 YOU SIGNED A TERM LIMITS PLEDGE. ONLY THREE MORE TERMS, SO THAT'S COMING DUE HERE IN THIS '04 ELECTION. WILL YOU KEEP THAT PLEDGE AND RETIRE FROM CONGRESS, OR DO YOU INTEND TO SEEK REELECTION?

Boswell: I INTEND TO SEEK REELECTION. I'M NOT MAKING MY FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT NOW. NOW, DAVID, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, AND I MADE A MISTAKE. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. AND I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE FOR NOW. BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SENIORITY AND THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON THAT INVOLVES OUR STATE AND THE INVOLVEMENT I'VE GOTTEN INTO BEING ON THE SPECIAL INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, WITH THE BACKGROUND I'VE GOT, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US AS A DISTRICT, AS A STATE, AS A COUNTRY. SO I APPRECIATE BEING THERE. AND, OF COURSE, ON THE AGRICULTURE -- THE REAUTHORIZATION BILL ON THE TRANSPORTATION COMING UP, AVIATION, RAIL, AND SO ON IS VERY IMPORTANT TO US. I FEEL LIKE THAT IF WE EVER WANT FROM A SMALL STATE TO HAVE ONE OF OUR MEMBERS TO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY, SUBCOMMITTEE OR WHATEVER, WE CAN'T DO THAT.

Glover: DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO BE AN ISSUE IN YOUR REELECTION CAMPAIGN?

Boswell: OH, I'M SURE THEY'LL TRY TO DO THAT. BUT HAVE EITHER ONE OF YOU EVER MADE A MISTAKE? YOU KNOW? Yepsen: WHAT WAS THE MISTAKE THAT YOU MADE?

Boswell: WELL, I MADE THAT DECISION, AND IT WAS A BAD DECISION AS I PUT THE FACTS TOGETHER LATER. MY OLD GRANDFATHER SAID, "A THINKING PERSON IS ALLOWED TO CHANGE THEIR MIND WHEN YOU'VE GOT NEW INFORMATION." AND AS I REALIZED THE IMPACT OF IT, I THOUGHT THAT WAS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO? Yepsen: ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THIS HURTS THE CREDIBILITY OF PEOPLE IN POLITICS; WE CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU FOLKS TELL US?

Boswell: DAVID, NO, BECAUSE UP ON THE HILL IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, WHEN ANOTHER MEMBER WOULD COME TO YOU AND SAY, "WILL YOU SUPPORT THIS BILL" AND THEY LOOK AT IT AND SAY, "WELL, IT LOOKS OKAY" -- WAIT A MINUTE. LET ME FINISH. AND THEN YOU STUDY IT AND GET MORE INFORMATION. NOW, IF YOU GO BACK TO THEM AHEAD OF TIME AND SAY, "WELL, I HAVEN'T LOOKED THAT OVER AND I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU TO YOU TAKE ME OFF THE LIST; I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT IT FOR THESE REASONS." Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN, WE'VE GOT ABOUT FIFTEEN SECONDS LEFT. SOME PEOPLE ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT YOU RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN '06. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

Boswell: DAVID, PUT YOUR ATTENTION ON SOMETHING ELSE. [ LAUGHTER ]

Borg: MY ATTENTION RIGHT NOW IS ON THE FACT THAT WE'RE OUT OF TIME, AND I'M SORRY BECAUSE WE WERE ON A GOOD LINE OF QUESTIONING.

Boswell: I'M JUST GETTING WARMED UP. [ LAUGHTER ]

Borg: THANKS FOR BEING OUR GUEST TODAY. ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WE MOVE TO A MAJOR TOPIC IN IOWA'S CAPITOL, TAX REFORM -- IT'S BEEN A PRIORITY ISSUE DURING THE CURRENT LEGISLATIVE SESSION -- AND LOOK AT A PROGRESS REPORT FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE IOWA SENATE'S WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, REPUBLICAN LARRY MCKIBBEN OF MARSHALLTOWN, AND HIS COUNTERPART IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, DAVENPORT REPUBLICAN JAMIE VANFOSSEN. THAT'S 6:30 NEXT FRIDAY, REBROADCAST SUNDAY NOON. AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.