Iowa Public Television

Yepsen: AS CANDIDATES FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION CONTINUE TO CRISSCROSS IOWA SEEKING VOTES IN THE IOWA CAUCUSES, THE FIELD OF CONTENDERS HAS GROWN. WE REVIEW THE CAMPAIGN OF 2004 WITH OUR TEAM OF POLITICAL REPORTERS ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

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ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 19 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen: THE FIELD OF NINE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDERS IS NOW TEN. RETIRED ARMY GENERAL WESLEY CLARK THREW HIS HELMET IN THE RING THIS LAST WEEK, AND JUST WHAT EFFECT HIS CANDIDACY WILL HAVE ON THE LEADOFF IOWA CAUCUSES ON JANUARY 19 IS A MATTER OF OPEN SPECULATION. BUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ITSELF, THE FIELD OF CONTENDERS HAS MOVED FROM THE SUMMER CAMPAIGN SEASON TO THE FALL, AND THE PACE IS PICKING UP AND PUNCHES ARE BEING DELIVERED. QUESTIONS, LEGITIMATE ONES, ARE BEING ASKED, AND POLICY POSITIONS ARE BEING SCRUTINIZED AND CHALLENGED AS THE MIDDLE-OF-THE-PACK CANDIDATES TAKE ISSUE WITH THE FRONT-RUNNERS AT THE TOP. WELL, HERE ON "IOWA PRESS," WE TAKE A STEP BACK TO REVIEW WHAT'S HAPPENED THUS FAR OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE TONE AND FLAVOR OF WHAT'S TO COME IN THE 122 DAYS BETWEEN NOW AND THE IOWA CAUCUSES. JOINING US ARE KAY HENDERSON OF "RADIO IOWA" AND MIKE GLOVER OF "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS." ALSO WITH US ARE JENEANE BECK OF "KUNI PUBLIC RADIO" AND TODD DORMAN WITH "THE LEE NEWSPAPERS." TODD, LET'S START WITH YOU. LET'S GO AROUND THE TABLE. GIVE ME YOUR HANDICAP? WHAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY IN THIS RACE?

Dorman: WELL, CLEARLY HOWARD DEAN, THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF VERMONT, IS THE HOT CANDIDATE, STILL AFTER HIS SUMMERTIME SURGE. HE'S PULLED INTO AT LEAST A DEAD HEAT, IF NOT A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF RICHARD GEPHARDT, THE CONGRESSMAN FROM MISSOURI, WHO EVERYONE, I GUESS, FREELY ADMITS THAT HE NEEDS TO WIN IOWA TO KEEP HIS CAMPAIGN ALIVE. MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR JOHN KERRY SEEMS TO BE STALLED IN THIRD PLACE. HE'S NOT MOVING FORWARD. IF ANYTHING, HE'S MOVED BACK. AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A MIDDLE-OF-THE-PACK WITH JOHN EDWARDS, THE SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA; THE SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT, JOE LIEBERMAN; AND OTHERS... BOB GRAHAM, THE SENATOR FROM FLORIDA; CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN, FORMER ILLINOIS SENATOR; DENNIS KUCINICH, THE CONGRESSMAN FROM OHIO; AND AL SHARPTON, THE REVEREND FROM NEW YORK KIND OF MAKE UP A PACK WITH MAYBE 1 PERCENT IN MOST POLLS.

Yepsen: WE'LL PICK APART EVERYBODY YOU JUST MENTIONED IN A MINUTE, BUT I WANT TO GET EVERYBODY ELSE'S REACTION TO -- JUST HANDICAP THIS STATE OF PLAY. WHERE DOES THIS STAND, JENEANE?

Beck: I JUST FEEL LIKE THE CAMPAIGN IS -- THERE'S NO MOMENTUM FOR ANYBODY BESIDES DEAN. I MEAN HE MOVES UP SLIGHTLY IN EACH POLL, AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME POLLS THAT SHOW GEPHARDT CATCHING HIM IN SOME AREAS. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, EVERYONE IS JUST STAGNANT BUT HIM AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS KEEP MOVING ALONG AND WE KEEP EXPECTING MORE PEOPLE TO BREAK OUT OF THE PACK BUT NO ONE DOES. IT JUST MOVES FORWARD AS A GROUP, AND NOTHING CHANGES. AND MAYBE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOSE INTEREST IF THAT HAPPENS.

Yepsen: MIKE, IN ADDITION TO WORKING THE CAMPAIGN HERE, A.P. PUTS YOU ON THE ROAD AROUND THE COUNTRY AN AWFUL LOT TO KEEP TRACK OF THOSE CAMPAIGNS. WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON HOW IT LOOKS?

Glover: THE RACE IS BROKEN INTO WHAT IS CLEARLY A TWO-TIERED CAMPAIGN. THERE IS A TOP TIER OF CANDIDATES WHO JUST MIGHT BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. THEY INCLUDE HOWARD DEAN. THEY INCLUDE DICK GEPHARDT. THEY INCLUDE JOHN KERRY AND WESLEY CLARK, WHO JUST GETS INTO -- WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'S MADE THAT FIELD OR NOT. AND THEN WE HAVE A SECOND TIER OF CANDIATES WHO I THINK THE PRESSURE IS GOING TO START TO GROW ON FAIRLY QUICKLY TO GET OUT OF THIS THING. WE CAN'T HANDLE A TEN-CANDIDATE FIELD. THAT'S TOO BIG, SO THE PRESSURE IS GOING TO START TO GROW, I THINK IN COMING WEEKS IF NOT MONTHS, FOR PEOPLE IN THAT SECOND TIER -- THE JOE LIEBERMANS, THE DENNIS KUCINICH -- TO GET OUT OF THIS THING. THEY'RE MUDDYING UP THE PACK, THEY'RE COMPLICATING THINGS, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. SO THE QUICKER THEY RECOGNIZE THAT, PROBABLY THE BETTER. SO THE PRESSURE ON THEM IN THE COMING WEEKS IS GOING TO GROW, I THINK, FAIRLY HIGH.

Yepsen: KAY, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE?

Henderson: WELL, IN TERMS OF COMPARING THIS CYCLE TO THE LAST ONE WHEN WE HAD A BROAD FIELD OF DEMOCRATS RUNNING IN 1987 AND 1988, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. THEY'RE NOT SPENDING AS MUCH TIME HERE, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE OTHER CONTESTS IN THE CALENDAR, THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SWEEPSTAKES, IF YOU WILL, COME SO QUICKLY AFTER IOWA, THESE CANDIDATES CAN'T INVEST A LOT OF TIME AND RESOURCES SOLELY IN IOWA. THEY HAVE TO SPEND TIME IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND OTHER STATES WHERE THEY WILL HAVE THOSE CONTESTS RELATIVELY QUICKLY AFTER IOWA. SO I THINK THE GAME HAS REALLY CHANGED IN IOWA. THEREFORE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND HERE, THE CAMPAIGN OPERATIVES THAT YOU HIRE, ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. THE PEOPLE, THE OPINION LEADERS AND THE COMMUNITIES, ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE TALKING UP YOUR CANDIDACY BECAUSE THE CANDIDATES CAN'T SPEND AS MUCH FACE TIME IN IOWA AS THEY DID IN '87 AND '88.

Glover: TO BACK UP KAY'S POINT, I RECALL BACK IN 1988, FORMER ILLINOIS SENATOR PAUL SIMON AND DICK GEPHARDT, WHO WAS RUNNING AT THAT TIME TOO, BOTH RENTED APARTMENTS IN DES MOINES AND LITERALLY, FOR LAST THREE MONTHS, MOVED TO DES MOINES AND LIVED HERE. THEY CAN'T DO THAT NOW. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IOWA, AND THEN EIGHT DAYS LATER YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE NEW HAMPSHIRE. AND THEN ONE WEEK LATER YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOUTH CAROLINA, ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO, OKLAHOMA, A LOT OF STATES VERY QUICKLY.

Yepsen: SO, MIKE, IS IOWA AS IMPORTANT THIS TIME AS IT'S BEEN IN THE PAST?

Glover: IT'S THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. LOTS OF OTHER STATES MOVED UP TO BECOME MORE IMPORTANT. WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY MADE IOWA EVEN MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THE CANDIDATES CAN'T SPEND TIME HERE, IF YOU STUMBLE IN IOWA, THERE'S NO TIME TO RECOVER. SO IT'S, BY SORT OF AN ODD THING, EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

Yepsen: GO AHEAD.

Beck: WELL, THAT MEANS -- I JUST WONDER IF THERE IS ANY PRESSURE, THOUGH, FOR THESE CANDIDATES TO DROP OUT. I'M SURE THERE'S PARTY PRESSURE. BUT IN THAT SENSE, IT IS NOT AS EXPENSIVE TO RUN A CAMPAIGN IN IOWA. A DENNIS KUCINICH CAN COME, DRIVE IN HIS CAR, AND GO FROM ONE EVENT TO ANOTHER, AND THERE'S INCENTIVE FOR HIM TO DROP OUT, BESIDES PRESSURE FROM PARTY LEADERS. I MEAN HE MIGHT AS WELL STAY IN AND SEE IF HE DOES WELL IN OTHER STATES.

Glover: UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE A PLAYER AT SOME POINT DOWN THE ROAD. IF I'M A DENNIS KUCINICH, I UNDERSTAND I'M NOT GOING TO WIN IOWA, I'M NOT GOING TO BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. LET'S SAY I'VE COME TO THAT CONCLUSION. HOW DO I BECOME A PLAYER? WELL, I GET OUT AND I ENDORSE SOMEBODY I THINK CAN BE A PLAYER, SO THAT KIND OF PRESSURE I THINK IS GOING TO START TO GROW.

Yepsen: WHICH IS SORT OF WHAT TOM HARKIN DID IN '92 AFTER HE GOT BEAT BY BILL CLINTON. HE GOT ON BOARD WITH CLINTON.

Glover: AND BECAME A PLAYER IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION FAIRLY EASILY.

Yepsen: MIKE, LET'S WORK OUR WAY DOWN THROUGH THIS LONG LIST OF TEN CANDIDATES, AND LET'S START WITH THE EDGE OF THE NEWS, WESLEY CLARK. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT CANDIDATE AND THAT CAMPAIGN?

Glover: WE DON'T KNOW YET. AND THAT'S I THINK PART OF THE REASON THAT THERE'S SUCH ENORMOUS INTEREST IN WESLEY CLARK RIGHT NOW. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT KIND OF A CANDIDATE HE GOING TO BE. ON PAPER, THERE'S A LOT GOING FOR HIM. HE'S A RETIRED FOUR-STAR ARMY GENERAL COMMANDER OF NATO WHO IS AGAINST THE WAR, A LOT OF CREDENTIALS THERE. HE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY. HE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME KIND OF THIS ODD NONPOLITICIAN CANDIDATE. A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THIS IS THE YEAR FOR A NON-WASHINGTON CANDIDATE. A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT PEOPLE LIKE JOHN KERRY, DICK GEPHARDT HAVEN'T TAKEN OFF IS BECAUSE THEY'RE KIND OF PART OF THIS WASHINGTON SCENE, WHICH WESLEY CLARK IS NOT. ALL THAT WOULD SEEM TO BODE FOR A FAIRLY INTIMIDATING CANDIDACY, BUT CAMPAIGNS ARE ALL ABOUT THE CANDIDATE. LET'S SEE WHAT THIS GUY IS LIKE. LET'S SEE WHAT THAT GUY'S GOT. LET'S SEE WHAT HE CAN PUT TOGETHER. IT'S VERY LATE TO START PULLING SOMETHING TOGETHER. WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO PLAY IN IOWA. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S GOING TO START TO COMPETE. ONE POLL BY YOUR NEWS ORGANIZATION, TODD, HAD 36 PERCENT OF LIKELY CAUCUS-GOERS UNDECIDED.

Yepsen: SO ISN'T THAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A WESLEY CLARK TO COME IN HERE AND TRY TO PICK UP SOME OF THESE UNDECIDEDS?

Glover: ON THE ONE HAND, YES. ON THE ONE HAND, NO. ON THE ONE HAND, YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF UNDECIDED. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO PUT TOGETHER A CAUCUS CAMPAIGN ARE NOT UNDECIDED. THEY'RE WITH ONE CAMPAIGN OR ANOTHER. I DON'T KNOW WHO'S OUT THERE TO HIRE FOR A STAFF.

Henderson: THE OTHER THING, IF YOU LOOK, THERE ARE TWO PROBLEMS THAT HE FACES IMMEDIATELY. THERE'S NO OFF-BROADWAY CAMPAIGN HERE FOR HIM. HE CAN'T MAKE A STUMBLE. IF HE MAKES A STUMBLE, IT'S GOING TO BE CRIPPLING. NUMBER TWO, HE MAY FALL INTO THE TRAP THAT I THINK JOE LIEBERMAN FELL INTO. PEOPLE KNEW WHO JOE LIEBERMAN WAS BY VIRTUE OF HIS CANDIDACY AS THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WITH AL GORE IN THE 2002 CAMPAIGN, BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO GO OUT AND FIND THOSE IOWANS WHO SAID THEY SUPPORT HIM. I'VE BEEN TO EVENT AFTER EVENT AFTER EVENT. I'VE NEVER MET AN IOWAN WHO SAYS THEY SUPPORT JOE LIEBERMAN. SO HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO, THROUGH A CAMPAIGN APPARATUS, FIND THOSE PEOPLE AND THEN, ON JANUARY 19, THEORETICALLY MOBILIZE THEM. AND THAT'S, I THINK, THE CAMPAIGN PROBLEM THAT WESLEY CLARK FACES. HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE -- HE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO FIND THE PEOPLE WHO FIND HIS CANDIDACY INTRIGUING OR INTERESTING.

Yepsen: ONE THING THAT SORT OF BACKS UP MIKE'S POINT IS -- ABOUT THIS RACE NEEDS TO GET SMALLER IS I WONDER IF GENERAL CLARK WON'T CONCLUDE THAT HE'S WASTING HIS TIME HERE AND THAT HE'S BETTER OFF GOING ELSEWHERE. IN ORDER TO GET ANYTHING IN AN IOWA CAUCUS, YOU'VE GOT TO FIRST GET 15 PERCENT. AND WITH 10 CANDIDATES IN THE FIELD, THAT BECOMES PRETTY DIFFICULT.

Glover: AND ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I'VE HEARD ALREADY, EVEN BEFORE HE MAKES HIS FIRST VISIT HERE, THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR HIM TO SKIP OVER IOWA IS HIS CAMPAIGN WOULD BE THE TYPE OF CAMPAIGN THAT WOULD APPEAL TO INDEPENDENTS, MAYBE EVEN MODERATE REPUBLICANS. I MEAN A RETIRED MILITARY GUY, A BIG WAR HERO, ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. IN IOWA, THERE IS NO HISTORY OF INDEPENDENTS AND CROSSOVER VOTERS HAVING A ROLE IN IOWA'S CAUCUSES.

Yepsen: BUT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE --

Glover: BUT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, THERE IS HISTORY OF INDEPENDENTS VOTING IN THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY. THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY THAT JOHN MCCAIN BEAT GEORGE BUSH IN NEW HAMPSHIRE PRECISELY BECAUSE HIS ROGUE CANDIDACY APPEALED TO THOSE INDEPENDENTS. THERE WERE A LOT OF INDEPENDENT MINDED NEW ENGLANDERS UP THERE.

Yepsen: KAY, HOWARD DEAN? WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS ONE?

Henderson: HOWARD DEAN'S FIRST TRIP TO IOWA IN EARNEST WAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2002. AND SINCE THEN HE HAS SPENT 78 DAYS CAMPAIGNING IN IOWA. I'VE SEEN HIM ON THE TRAIL. YOU ALL HAVE SEEN HIM ON THE TRAIL. HE SEEMED TO ME TO BE INDEFATIGABLE. HE IS THE ENERGIZER BUNNY OF THE CANDIDATES. HE KEEPS GOING AND GOING AND GOING. EVEN IN HIS DOWN TIME, EVEN WHEN HE IS DRIVING ACROSS THE STATE THESE GREAT DISTANCES FROM CITY TO CITY, HE IS TALKING TO VOTERS. HE IS RIGHT NOW WEARING THE MANTLE OF FRONT-RUNNER, AND HE APPEARS TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH IT. HE APPEARS TO BE ENJOYING THE CAMPAIGN PROCESS. A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU GET TO BE IN THIS CRUCIBLE, SOMETIMES IT CAN KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CROWD YOU DOWN AND YOU BECOME MORE CAUTIOUS. AT THIS POINT, EVEN THOUGH HIS PERFORMANCE IN THE DEBATES HAS SEEMED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CAUTIOUS, ON THE STUMP HE HAS NOT YET SHOWN THAT CAUTION THAT HAS SORT OF HURT FRONT-RUNNERS IN THE PAST.

Glover: I WONDER -- AND I'VE ASKED THIS QUESTION FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS NOW; I WONDER IF HE'S PEAKED TOO EARLY. HE'S HAD A GOOD SUMMER, AS TODD MENTIONED. HE'S BEEN THE HOT CANDIDATE ALL SUMMER. HIS MONEY HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE. HIS MONEY IS GOING TO BE INCREDIBLE IN THIS QUARTER. THE BEST GUESS IS THAT HE MAY GET TO $15 MILLION THIS QUARTER, WHICH WILL BREAK BILL CLINTON'S FUND-RAISING RECORD FROM THE LAST CYCLE. BUT I WONDER IF HE CAN CONTINUE WITHOUT STUMBLING FOR THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS.

Yepsen: TODD, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I MEAN AS DEAN HAS RISEN IN THE POLLS, HE'S ALSO BECOME A BIG TARGET HERE IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS. ANY EVIDENCE THAT THAT'S -- THAT THOSE ATTACKS ARE SLOWING HIM DOWN?

Dorman: THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH EVIDENCE OF THAT. AND PART OF THE PROBLEM -- OR PART OF THE REASON HE'S SURGED IS THAT HIS RIVALS HAD SUCH A HARD TIME FIGURING OUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT HIM. THEY FINALLY STARTED TO TAKE THEIR GLOVES OFF AND GO AFTER HIM, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE AS HE'S ATTACKED, HE GETS STRONGER. HIS SUPPORTERS SEEM TO FEED OFF THAT. THE -- WHEN DICK GEPHARDT -- DICK GEPHARDT, FOR INSTANCE, TOOK OFF THE GLOVES LAST WEEK AND TALKED ABOUT PAST STATEMENTS THAT HE MADE AS GOVERNOR, AND IT DIDN'T SEEM TO SLOW HIM AT ALL. IT DIDN'T SEEM TO PHASE HIM. HE MET THOSE CHALLENGES AND IT HASN'T SEEMED TO MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE.

Yepsen: HERE'S THE $50,000 QUESTION. IS HOWARD DEAN THE NEXT JIMMY CARTER, THE GUY WHO CAME OUT HERE EARLY AND WENT THE DISTANCE, OR IS HE THE NEXT GEORGE MCGOVERN, THE ANTIWAR CANDIDATE WHO CRASHED AND BURNED EVENTUALLY?

Beck: OF COURSE, IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK, BUT, YOU KNOW, NEITHER OF THOSE CAMPAIGNS WAS I FOLLOWING CAMPAIGNS YET IN MY LIFE, SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO COMPARE HIM TO EITHER. I TEND TO HAVE TO LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYONE TELLS ME ON THAT. [ LAUGHTER ] I'M JUST SAYING BESIDES READING THE BOOKS, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF GOOD HISTORY ON THAT.

Henderson: I THINK THAT'S A SHOT AT TWO PEOPLE AT THE TABLE HERE.

Dorman: WHO WERE THE FIRST GRADERS IN YOUR CLASS DURING THAT CAMPAIGN? [ LAUGHTER ]

Beck: BUT MY POINT IS THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THE JOHN KERRYS AND HIS CAMPAIGN SAYING: HE IS THE GEORGE MCGOVERN; YOU CAN'T LET HIM WIN; HE CAN'T GO ALL THE WAY; HE'S TOO LIBERAL; AND HE'LL NEVER SURVIVE AGAINST BUSH.

Glover: THAT'S ONE OF -- ONE OF THE INTERESTING DYNAMICS OF THIS CAMPAIGN IS EVERYONE IS CONCEDING DEAN IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE LEFT STANDING WHEN DEMOCRATS SLUG IT OUT FOR THE NOMINATION. IT'S GOING TO BE DEAN AND WHO KNOWS. EVERYONE RIGHT NOW, SEEMS TO ME, TO BE POSITIONING THEMSELVES TO BECOME THE ANTI-DEAN. THIS IS A CANDIDATE WE WANT TO RALLY AROUND BECAUSE WE CAN'T POSSIBLY NOMINATE THIS GUY BECAUSE HE WOULD BE A GEORGE MCGOVERN, SO EVERYBODY IN THE REST OF THE FIELD IS ALL KIND OF SHUFFLING AROUND, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BECOME THE ANTI-DEAN. SO I THINK ONE PHASE WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH IS WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH A PHASE WHERE THE REST OF THE FIELD TRIES TO KILL EACH OTHER OFF TO EMERGE AS THE CANDIDATE TO OPPOSE HOWARD DEAN AS WE HEAD INTO THIS THING, WHICH IS TO GRANT DEAN STATUS I DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE GRANTED HIM A YEAR AGO.

Beck: BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT BEING STUCK IS NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO EVEN GET THAT TITLE YET. I MEAN THERE'S JUST THIS -- THERE'S HOWARD DEAN AND THERE'S THIS -- YOU TALKED ABOUT A TOP TIER, BUT EVEN IN THE TOP TIER, THERE'S SORT OF JUST THIS MIDDLE MUSHY GROUP --

Glover: I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE --

Beck: -- THAT CAN'T CLIMB OUT OF THE QUAGMIRE.

Glover: I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW IT IS THEY CAN EMERGE FROM THIS PACK TO BECOME THE ANTI-DEAN: HOW DOES A JOHN KERRY KILL OFF A DICK GEPHARDT OR VICE VERSA; HOW DOES A JOHN EDWARDS KILL OFF A JOE LIEBERMAN? I DON'T THINK THEY'VE FIGURED THAT OUT.

Yepsen: ALL RIGHT, JENEANE, ONE CANDIDATE YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING IS JOHN KERRY.

Beck: I SHOULD NEVER HAVE MENTIONED THAT.

Yepsen: WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON HIS CAMPAIGN?

Beck: WELL, JOHN KERRY REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF AL GORE IN THE EARLY CAMPAIGN WHERE HE COULDN'T FIND HIS FOOTING AND HE WAS ASKING -- HE WOULD HAVE CLOSED-DOOR MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT HE SHOULD WEAR AND WHAT HE SHOULD SAY, AND THAT'S WHERE JOHN KERRY SEEMS TO BE. HE CAN'T FIND HIS FOOTING AND HE CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY. . BY ALL ACCOUNTS, HE EXPECTED TO BE THE FRONT-RUNNER. HE WAS THE WAR HERO. HE HAD CONGRESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO JUST BE THE CANDIDATE AND MAYBE DIDN'T EXPECT A TOUGH FIGHT AND ISN'T SURE HOW TO HANDLE A TOUGH FIGHT. AND HE RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, REANNOUNCED -- WELL, FORMALLY ANNOUNCED HIS CAMPAIGN, ALTHOUGH HE'D BEEN CAMPAIGNING FOR MONTHS, AND HE BROUGHT THAT TO IOWA. NOW, HE HAD A BEAUTIFUL SETTING. HE WAS AT THE MASONIC TEMPLE IN DES MOINES: BEAUTIFUL PILLARS, FLAGS BEHIND HIM, A GOOD SPEECH. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD NEWS FOR HIM THAT DAY, AND HE STEPPED ON IT EARLIER IN THE DAY BY MENTIONING TROUBLES WITHIN HIS CAMPAIGN STAFF. IT'S LIKE HE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO ATTACK HOWARD DEAN AND SO, THEREFORE, IS JUST MUDDLING HIS WAY THROUGH. AND I THINK WESLEY CLARK HURTS HIM TOO BECAUSE HE'S THE WAR HERO, AND MANY OF THE SUPPORTERS OF HIS THAT I TALK TO MENTION THE REASON THEY'RE SUPPORTING HIM IS BECAUSE HE'S BEST ON FOREIGN POLICY. WELL, IF WESLEY CLARK STEALS THAT, WHAT DOES HE HAVE?

Yepsen: YEAH, THERE'S ALWAYS TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT THESE CAMPAIGN SHAKE-UPS. IT'S STILL EARLY, AS WE'VE ALL SAID. YOU KNOW, ONE, IT DISTRACTS FROM KERRY'S MESSAGE. YOU KNOW, IF IN FACT HE'S GETTING HIS ACT TOGETHER, THEN MAYBE HE'LL BE IN GOOD SHAPE. SOMEBODY ONCE SAID, YOU KNOW, GORE HAD TO MOVE HIS CAMPAIGN TO NASHVILLE. KERRY OUGHT TO MOVE HIS CAMPAIGN TO NASHVILLE.

Glover: ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT I THINK JOHN KERRY NEEDS TO LEARN IS TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. JOHN KERRY IS RUNNING TO GET PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HIS RESUME. PEOPLE DON'T VOTE FOR RESUMES. HE HAS A VERY IMPRESSIVE RESUME, AND THIS IS A PROBLEM WESLEY CLARK IS GOING TO HAVE. HE HAS A VERY IMPRESSIVE RESUME AS WELL. PEOPLE DON'T VOTE FOR RESUMES. ASK JOHN GLENN. JOHN GLENN BROUGHT ONE OF THE BEST RESUMES IN AMERICAN POLITICS TO THE CAMPAIGN IN 1984 AND FELL FLAT ON HIS FACE BECAUSE HE WAS A LOUSY CANDIDATE.

Yepsen: YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I MEAN JOHN CONNALLY. I MEAN THERE'S ANY NUMBER OF THOSE GUYS --

Glover: THAT'S RIGHT.

Yepsen: -- WITH A HISTORY --

Glover: AND JOHN KERRY BRINGS A VERY IMPRESSIVE RESUME: A WAR HERO, A POLITICAL SUCCESS, AND ALL THAT. GREAT RESUME. AND HE'S PROVING, SO FAR, TO BE A LOUSY CANDIDATE.

Dorman: WELL, AND SO MANY DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO ENERGIZE THE PARTY, AND THEY JUST DON'T SEE THAT IN JOHN KERRY'S CAMPAIGN. THEY SEE A WASHINGTON ESTABLISHMENT EXPERIENCED GUY THAT'S JUST NOT LIGHTING THEM ON FIRE.

Yepsen: TODD, WHAT ABOUT DICK GEPHARDT?

Dorman: DICK GEPHARDT IS ESSENTIALLY IN IOWA RUNNING FOR HIS POLITICAL LIFE. I MEAN HE NEEDS TO WIN THE IOWA CAUCUSES. HE WON THEM IN 1988. EVERYONE EXPECTED HIM TO BE THE FRONT-RUNNER, AND SO FAR THAT'S NOT THE CASE. THE OTHER PROBLEM HE HAS IS THAT HE'S ESSENTIALLY BEHIND THE SCENES SCRAMBLING TO RAISE MONEY BECAUSE IF HE -- IF HIS FUND-RAISING IS DISAPPOINTING AT THE END OF THIS CYCLE AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER, THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR KNOCK AGAINST HIS CAMPAIGN.

Yepsen: MIKE, IF HOWARD DEAN BEATS DICK GEPHARDT IN IOWA, DOES THAT FINISH GEPHARDT?

Glover: THE GOOD NEWS FOR DICK GEPHARDT IS IF HE LOSES IOWA, IT'S NOT VERY FAR TO ST. LOUIS, BECAUSE HE WILL BE GOING BACK TO ST. LOUIS. YOU LOOK AT THE EARLY CAMPAIGN SEASON IN THE CALENDAR, AND WHAT HAPPENS? YOU HAVE IOWA AND EIGHT DAYS LATER YOU HAVE NEW HAMPSHIRE. IF DICK GEPHARDT DOESN'T WIN HERE, HE HAS A TOUGH TIME IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. AND THEN THE FOLLOWING WEEK IT'S SOUTH CAROLINA AND SEVERAL OTHER STATES, NONE OF WHICH LOOK REALLY GOOD FOR HIM EXCEPT HIS HOME STATE OF MISSOURI. SO IF HE DOESN'T WIN HERE, THE BUZZ IS GOING TO BE AGAINST HIM AND IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO SUSTAIN A CANDIDACY.

Henderson: I WENT TO A GEPHARDT EVENT ABOUT A MONTH AGO, AND IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE HE WON IOWA'S CAUCUSES IN 1988. AND I THINK GOING INTO THIS, HE THOUGHT THAT WAS A BIG ADVANTAGE, AND CERTAINLY IT IS. BUT THERE ARE A WHOLE HOST OF VOTERS WHO DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THE 1988 CAUCUSES AND WHO WEREN'T EVEN OLD ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE IN THE 1988 CAUCUSES. SO HE NEEDS TO REINTRODUCE HIMSELF TO THOSE PEOPLE, AND HE HASN'T YET DONE SO.

Yepsen: AND THE NUMBER OF UNION MEMBERS IN IOWA HAS FALLEN DRAMATICALLY.

Henderson: RIGHT. YEAH, AND I THINK THAT WAS HIS STRATEGY, PLAYING ON HIS STRENGTHS FROM WINNING THE 1988 AND THEN PUTTING A LOT OF EGGS IN THE UNION BASKET. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING TO COME TRUE BECAUSE DEAN HAS REALLY INROADS IN THE UNION.

Glover: BUT BEFORE WE THROW TOO MUCH DIRT ON TOP OF DICK GEPHARDT'S CASKET, DICK GEPHARDT IS A TOUGH, TOUGH ENERGETIC POLITICIAN. AND HE PROBABLY WON'T GET THE FORMAL ENDORSEMENT OF THE AFL-CIO PRIOR TO THE PRIMARY SEASON, BUT HE HAS MORE UNION SUPPORT THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE. THERE WILL BE 100,000 DEMOCRATS SHOW UP FOR PRECINCT CAUCUSES JANUARY 19. ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE WILL COME FROM A UNION HOUSEHOLD, AND DICK GEPHARDT WILL HAVE MORE SUPPORT AMONG THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE. THAT MAKES HIM --

Yepsen: AND ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THAT IS THERE ARE 11 MAJOR INTERNATIONAL UNIONS THAT HAVE ENDORSED HIM. THEY HAVE ABOUT 30,000 MEMBERS IN IOWA, PLUS SPOUSES AND RELATIVES. THAT'S A FORMIDABLE GROUP OF PEOPLE TO TAKE INTO A CAUCUS.

Glover: AND IF HE GETS 30,000 VOTES ON CAUCUS NIGHT OUT OF 100,000, HE WINS THE CAUCUSES.

Henderson: THE OTHER THING ABOUT HIM IS YOU TALK ABOUT ENERGIZING THE TROOPS; YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ENERGY OF THE CANDIDATE HIMSELF. ONE THING I'VE NOTICED ABOUT JOHN KERRY IS HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF PERSONAL ENERGY, I SENSE. AND I ATTRIBUTE THAT TO THE FACT THAT THE MAN HAD MAJOR SURGERY EARLIER THIS YEAR, AND I THINK THAT HAS -- THAT IS AFFECTING HIS CAMPAIGN. PERHAPS TO SOME EXTENT -- HE WILL SAY NO -- BUT IN MY MIND, I THINK THAT AFFECTS HIS CAMPAIGN TO SOME EXTENT. WHEREAS, GEPHARDT IS LIKE THE HOWARD DEAN CANDIDATE. HE IS OUT THERE. HE'S GOT A LOT OF THINGS ON HIS SCHEDULE. HE WILL GO TOE TO TOE WITH DEAN IN TERMS OF PERSONAL APPEARANCES.

Yepsen: NOBODY WORKS AS HARD AS DICK GEPHARDT. KAY, LET'S KEEP ON RUNNING DOWN THE LIST. JOHN EDWARDS, THE SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA. HOW IS HE DOING?

Henderson: I THINK THIS HAS BEEN THE SURPRISE TO THE POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT THAT HIS CAMPAIGN HASN'T REALLY TAKEN OFF THUS FAR. AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE RESUME, THEY THOUGHT HE HAD PUT TOGETHER A PRETTY GOOD IDEA FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. IF YOU WERE GOING TO CAST SOMEBODY, IF YOU WILL, AS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, HE LOOKS THE ROLE: BOYISH, SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN; A TRIAL LAWYER OUT THERE DEFENDING THE MASSES AGAINST THE GREAT CORPORATE BEHEMOTHS OF OUR TIME. HE JUST, FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, EARLIER THIS YEAR DID NOT SPEND A LOT OF TIME HERE. HE HAD LAID THE GROUNDWORK LAST YEAR, AND THEN HE DIDN'T COME BACK TO SORT OF CLOSE THE SALE. AND SO WHILE HE WAS STAYING AWAY FROM IOWA, THESE OTHER CANDIDATES WERE COMING THROUGH AND THEY WERE STEALING SOME OF HIS THUNDER, BECAUSE HE MADE A LOT OF INVESTMENTS IN IOWA POLITICS, HE BOUGHT COMPUTERS FOR THE STATE PARTY, HE MADE A LOT OF CONTACTS. HE JUST WASN'T ABLE TO FOLLOW THROUGH.

Glover: HE RUNS -- HE'S RUNNING INTO A DEMOGRAPHIC PROBLEM. AND THE MORE I'M AROUND THIS BUSINESS, THE MORE I THINK WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO HISTORY AS MUCH AS WE SHOULD. LOOK BACK TO 1992. BILL CLINTON, A SOUTHERN MODERATE, GOT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION. WHY? A SOUTHERN MODERATE WAS THE LONE MODERATE IN A FIELD CHUCK FULL OF LIBERALS. AND THE LIBERALS, WHO REPRESENT PROBABLY THE MAJORITY OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, DICED UP THE WING OF THE PARTY IN ALLOWING A MODERATE TO COME THROUGH WITH THE PLURALITY OF THE VOTE THAT GOT HIM THE NOMINATION. THIS YEAR HE HAVE NOW FOUR PEOPLE COMPETING FOR THAT SORT OF SOUTHERN MODERATE WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WHICH IS A MINORITY OF THE PARTY, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM JOHN EDWARDS FACES. HE'S COMPETING FOR A MINORITY OF THE PARTY AND COMPETING AGAINST THREE OR FOUR OTHER CANDIDATES.

Yepsen: JENEANE, ANOTHER SOUTHERNER IN THE RACE IS FORMER -- IS FLORIDA SENATOR AND FORMER GOVERNOR BOB GRAHAM. HOW DOES HIS CAMPAIGN LOOK TO YOU?

Beck: WELL, IF MIKE'S ADAGE THAT THEY DON'T VOTE ON RESUME IS TRUE, THEN BOB GRAHAM HAS SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE. BY ALL ACCOUNTS, HE IS A BRIGHT POLITICIAN WHO HAS BEEN NOT ONLY A GOVERNOR BUT A SENATOR. HE HAS BEEN ON FOREIGN RELATION COMMITTEES. HE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE BUT THE PROBLEM IS LIKE JOHN KERRY, HE'S NOT VERY ENERGETIC. HE'S OLDER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES. HE'S THOUGHTFUL BUT NOT FIERY. AND I JUST WONDER IN THIS DAY AND AGE, THE MORE WE WATCH THESE CANDIDATES, IF YOU'RE NOT FIERY, IT'S VERY HARD TO SPARK INTEREST AND HARD TO SPARK INTEREST AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE. AND IN IOWA, DEAN HAS DONE SUCH A GOOD JOB OF THAT. SO IF THEY'RE NOT VOTING ON RESUME, HE'S TALKED A LOT ABOUT AS A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, WHICH MAY BE -- EITHER THAT'S DISAPPOINTING TO HIM OR MAYBE THAT HE DOESN'T THINK THAT'S SO BAD.

Yepsen: GRAHAM DID GET IN THIS THING LATE TOO.

Beck: HE DID.

Yepsen: TODD, WHAT ABOUT JOE LIEBERMAN?

Beck: AND HE ALSO HAD SURGERY -- I MEAN HAD HEART TROUBLE RECENTLY, WHICH MAY ALSO ACCOUNT FOR THAT.

Yepsen: TODD, WHAT ABOUT JOE LIEBERMAN? I'M NOT SEEING A WHOLE LOT OUT OF HIM?

Dorman: OH, HIS CAMPAIGN MAINTAINS THAT THEY'RE RAMPING UP THEIR IOWA OPERATION, BUT THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE OF THAT. HE'S ANOTHER CANDIDATE THAT'S COMPETING FOR THE MODERATE WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AND IN IOWA, THAT'S A TALL ORDER, CONSIDERING THAT THE CAUCUSES ARE USUALLY DOMINATED BY MORE LIBERAL ACTIVISTS.

Glover: JOE LIEBERMAN, I SOMETIMES WONDER IF THESE PEOPLE REALLY DO GET IT. JOE LIEBERMAN WILL CONCEDE -- HIS CAMPAIGN WILL CONCEDE: OKAY, WE PROBABLY ARE NOT GOING TO WIN IOWA; WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO COME IN SECOND IN IOWA; WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO COMPETE; WE'LL DO A RESPECTABLE SHOWING IN IOWA; AND, NO, WE PROBABLY WON'T WIN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE; WE PROBABLY WON'T FINISH SECOND IN NEW HAMPSHIRE; BUT WE'LL DO A RESPECTABLE SHOWING. BUT THEN AFTER THAT, WHEN WE'RE INTO THIS THING, THAT'S WHEN THE STATES START COMING ALONG THAT PLAYED OUR STRENGTHS, EXCEPT THEY IGNORE THE REALITY THAT AFTER IOWA, WE PAY ATTENTION TO ABOUT THREE CANDIDATES. AFTER NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE PAY ATTENTION TO ABOUT TWO CANDIDATES. IF YOU HAVEN'T WON OR SHOWN SOMETHING BY THEN, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HAPPENS DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE THIS FIELD IS GOING TO GET SMALL IN A HURRY.

Dorman: YEAH, THIS IDEA THAT YOU CAN SIT OUT UNTIL FEBRUARY 3 AND WAIT TO WIN OKLAHOMA AND ARIZONA, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Yepsen: IT'S NEVER BEEN A SCENARIO THAT'S WORKED, RIGHT?

Beck: WELL, THEN, DOES THAT MEAN IT WON'T WORK FOR WESLEY CLARK EITHER? YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT HIS SCHEDULE. HE DOESN'T HAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND. AND KAY MENTIONED THE FEWER TIME -- THE LESS TIME THEY CAN SPEND IN IOWA, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SUBORDINATES OR COUNTERPARTS TO DO THAT WORK FOR THEM. HE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE YET. AND I NOTICE EVEN NEXT WEEK THERE'S A DEBATE SCHEDULED IN NEW YORK ON ECONOMIC POLICIES. HE DOESN'T KNOW YET IF HE CAN PARTICIPATE BECAUSE HE HAS A SPEAKING ENGAGEMENT THAT HE ALREADY HAD IN TEXAS. SO THAT SAID --

Henderson: FOR WHICH HE'LL BE PAID.

Beck: YES, EXACTLY.

Glover: HIS SCENARIO, HIS BEST, YOU KNOW, PICTURE SCENARIO IS -- HE PLAYS LIGHTLY IN IOWA, DOESN'T COMPETE HEAVILY, BUT DOES OKAY, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK, AND THEN GOES TO NEW HAMPSHIRE. AND BECAUSE HE'S THIS KIND OF OFF-BEAT, OFF-THE-ROAD, DIFFERENT KIND OF A NONPOLITICIAN, NON-WASHINGTON FIGURE, DOES A LOT BETTER THAN EVERYBODY THINKS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. AND SUDDENLY HE BECOMES THE HOT CANDIDATE, AND HE BECOMES THE ALTERNATIVE TO HOWARD DEAN.

Yepsen: KAY?

Glover: THAT'S HIS BEST PICTURE SCENARIO.

Yepsen: KAY, WE'VE MENTIONED EVERY CANDIDATE HERE EXCEPT CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN OF ILLINOIS --

Henderson: WHO WILL FORMALLY --

Yepsen: AND THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON.

Henderson: WHO WILL FORMALLY ANNOUNCE HER CANDIDACY THIS WEEK.

Yepsen: THEY'VE NOT BEEN CAMPAIGNING HERE.

Henderson: CORRECT.

Yepsen: WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

Henderson: THOSE CAMPAIGNS DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY. IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO FLY INTO DES MOINES, AS WE ALL KNOW. THEY DON'T HAVE STAFF HERE. THEY JUST -- THEY'RE COMING TO THE EVENTS, WHAT WE CALL CATTLE CALLS, AT WHICH ALL THE CAMPAIGN FOLKS ATTEND AND WHICH ALL THE CANDIDATES APPEAR AT, BUT THEY AREN'T ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNING HERE.

Yepsen: WHAT ABOUT DENNIS KUCINICH? WE MENTIONED HIM EARLIER, BUT WHAT'S YOUR TAKE THERE?

Henderson: HE IS ENERGIZING A PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT HAS BEEN UPSET WITH FOLKS LIKE BILL CLINTON, WHO HAVE SUPPORTED FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS AROUND THE COUNTRY. SO HE'S REALLY TAPPING INTO A REAL SPECIFIC AREA THERE. HE'S ALSO TAPPING INTO THE PEACE COMMUNITY IN IOWA.

Yepsen: BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO BE TAKING HIM SERIOUSLY AS A GUY WHO COULD BE PRESIDENT.

Henderson: WELL, I THINK ONE REASON IS HE TENDS TO SING AT PUBLIC EVENTS. AND --

Glover: BUT I THINK -- I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS YOU'RE NOT FINDING PEOPLE BASHING DENNIS KUCINICH IS BECAUSE THAT'S -- HE'S APPEALING TO A SMALL WING OF THE LIBERAL LEFT SIDE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. OKAY, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO GET YOU THE NOMINATION, BUT IF I'M A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, THAT'S A WING I NEED COME THE GENERAL ELECTION, SO I DON'T WANT TO ALIENATE THOSE PEOPLE.

Yepsen: MAKE, WE'VE GOT --

Henderson: AND THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL GO TO THE CAUCUSES.

Yepsen: MIKE, WE'VE GOT ABOUT TWENTY SECONDS LEFT. TALK ABOUT MONEY IN THIS CAMPAIGN.

Glover: HOWARD DEAN HAS GOT IT. THE OTHERS DON'T.

Yepsen: IS THAT THE FIRST PRIMARY?

Glover: YEAH, THAT'S THE FIRST PRIMARY BECAUSE THERE'S NO MEASUREMENT UP UNTIL JANUARY AND WE ALL HAVE A VERY BIG HUNGER TO MEASURE THESE GUYS, TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT AS TO HOW THEY'RE DOING. SEPTEMBER 30, THEY'LL TELL US HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'VE RAISED. THAT'S THE NEXT HURDLE. THAT'S THE FIRST PRIMARY.

Yepsen: AND WE'VE REACHED A HURDLE HERE NOW, AND WE'RE OUT OF TIME. SO THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR THE HANDICAPPING. APPRECIATE IT. WE'LL BE TRACKING THE PROGRESS OF THE CAMPAIGNS AS BOTH THE IOWA CAUCUS AND THE GENERAL ELECTION OF 2004 DRAW NEAR. WELL, THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEKEND'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." WE'LL RETURN NEXT WEEK AT THIS SAME TIME: FRIDAY AT 7:30, SUNDAY AT NOON. DEAN BORG RETURNS WITH US NEXT WEEK, AND I HOPE YOU WILL AS WELL. UNTIL THEN, I'M DAVID YEPSEN OF "THE DES MOINES REGISTER." THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

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