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Howard Dean

(#3107)
October 17, 2003

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IOWA PRESS #3107>>

Borg: THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION CAMPAIGN INTENSIFIES, AND HEADING INTO THE IOWA CAUCUS, POLLS SHOW HOWARD DEAN A FRONT-RUNNER. WE'LL QUESTION THE FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17 EDITION OF IOWA PRESS. HERE IS DEAN BORG. >>

Borg: POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS HAVE BEEN LIKENED TO FOOTRACES, OBSERVERS NOTING, HOWEVER, THAT IT'S A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. TIMING IS BY CALENDAR, NOT A STOPWATCH. WITH THAT IN MIND, 94 DAYS NOW REMAIN UNTIL IOWA'S FIRST-IN-THE-NATION PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE CAUCUS. FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR HOWARD DEAN HAS MADE THE RACE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION INTERESTING AND COMPETITIVE, BREAKING FROM THE OTHER CANDIDATES WITH IMMEDIATE OPPOSITION TO U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ, AND HOLDING THE FRONT-RUNNER'S POSITION IN IOWA FOR NEARLY SIX MONTHS. GOVERNOR DEAN, WELCOME BACK TO "IOWA PRESS."

Dean: THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON, DEAN.

Borg: AND YOU KNOW THE REPORTERS ACROSS THE TABLE: "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN, AND "ASSOCIATED PRESS" SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER MIKE GLOVER. >>

Glover: GOVERNOR, SOME HAVE COMPARED YOUR CAMPAIGN TO THE CAMPAIGN THAT JOHN MCCAIN RAN FOUR YEARS AGO. YET SENATOR MCCAIN CRITICIZED YOU FOR YOUR OPPOSITION TO THE $87 BILLION IN SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING FOR IRAQ. HE SAID IT RAISED QUESTIONS IN HIS MIND ABOUT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF NATIONAL SECURITY NEEDS. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE --

Dean: I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD SPEND MONEY WITHOUT SAYING HOW YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT. IF THE IRAQ OCCUPATION IS A HIGH ENOUGH PRIORITY FOR THE PRESIDENT, HE'LL IDENTIFY WHERE HE'S GOING TO GET THE MONEY. WHEN HARRY TRUMAN SENT US TO KOREA, HE RAISED TAXES TO PAY FOR IT. THIS PRESIDENT HAS CUT TAXES BY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN AMERICA. ALL I ASK IS THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TELL US HOW HE'S GOING TO GET THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THIS $87 BILLION. I BELIEVE HE OUGHT TO REPEAL THOSE TAX CUTS IN ORDER TO PAY FOR IT. I HAVE SAID THAT I WOULD VOTE FOR THE 87 BILLION IF I WERE IN THE SENATE IF HE REPEALED THE TAX CUTS.

Glover: TO CLARIFY YOUR POSITION, YOUR POSITION IS YOU WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR THAT $87 BILLION IN FUNDING HAD HE FINANCED IT --

Dean: THAT'S RIGHT. WE CANNOT CUT AND RUN FROM IRAQ. I'VE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT. I THINK IT WAS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE TO GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHICH DIFFERENTIATES ME FROM ALL THE OTHER FOLKS. BUT NOW THAT WE'RE THERE, WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE THE PLACE BECAUSE IF AL QAEDA MOVES IN -- AND I THINK THERE'S MORE THERE NOW THAN WHEN SADDAM WAS ATTACKED -- OR IF THERE'S A FUNDAMENTALIST SHIITE REGIME THAT MOVES IN OR SETS UP, THEN WE REALLY HAVE A NATIONAL SECURITY PROBLEM FOR THE UNITED STATES WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE BEFORE. SO I WOULD JUST WANT THE PRESIDENT TO INDICATE WHAT KIND OF A PRIORITY THIS IS FOR. WE JUST CAN'T KEEP RUNNING THIS COUNTRY ON A CREDIT CARD. AND THAT'S WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING, AND THAT'S WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING.

Yepsen: WELL, GOVERNOR, THAT'S HOW THE PRESIDENT IS PAYING FOR THE WAR, BUT THAT'S HOW WE'VE PAID FOR A LOT OF OUR OTHER WARS, IS TO RUN UP THE NATIONAL DEBT. IT'S HOW WE PAID FOR THE SECOND WORLD WAR. WHAT'S WRONG WITH PUTTING IT ON THE CREDIT CARD AND PAYING IT OFF OVER TIME?

Dean: BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A HALF TRILLION DOLLARS ON THE CREDIT CARD AND THIS COUNTRY CAN'T CONTINUE TO AFFORD THESE HUGE DEFICITS. THEY'RE KILLING OUR JOBS. IT'S MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO EDUCATE OUR KIDS PROPERLY. CUTTING VETERANS' BENEFITS IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THIS HUGE DEFICIT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO RUN THE COUNTRY.

Yepsen: BUT AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT, THOSE DEFICITS ARE SMALLER THAN THEY WERE DURING THE REAGAN --

Dean: NOT ANYMORE. NOT WITH A HALF TRILLION DOLLARS. WE'RE WELL OVER HALF A TRILLION AND WE'RE GOING TO GO HIGHER. SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, I THINK, ARE IN ULTIMATE JEOPARDY. NO REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT HAS BALANCED THE BUDGET IN THIS COUNTRY IN THIRTY-FOUR YEARS. I JUST DON'T THINK YOU CAN TRUST THE REPUBLICANS WITH YOUR MONEY, AND THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF IT. HE HAS A WISH LIST. HE'S NOT WILLING TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO REALLY SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

Yepsen: WHAT DO YOU SAY -- SPEAKING OF SUPPORTING THE TROOPS, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE ARGUMENT, THOUGH, THAT'S BEING MADE THAT THOSE ARE THE DEMOCRATS WHO OPPOSED THIS $87 BILLION. YOU'RE VOTING AGAINST BULLETS FOR SOLDIERS.

Dean: NO, WE'RE VOTING FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I'M TIRED OF A PRESIDENT WHO HAS PRIORITIES AND HE WON'T PAY FOR THEM. AND I THINK THAT'S INEXCUSABLE.

Borg: THERE ARE NO OTHER COUNTRIES, OTHER THAN TURKEY, WILLING TO COMMIT TROOPS AS OF THIS TIME. DOES THAT MEAN UNLESS WE WOULD COMMIT MORE TROOPS THERE THAT WE'RE THERE FOR A LONG TIME?

Dean: WHAT IT MEANS IS WE NEED TO CHANGE PRESIDENTS IN ORDER TO GET OTHER TROOPS INTO IRAQ. THE SOLUTION IS TO INTERNATIONALIZE THE REBUILDING OF IRAQ. WE ARE GOING TO BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME. THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY AMERICAN TROOPS ARE GOING TO BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME. I BELIEVE WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IS WE HAVE TO CHANGE PRESIDENTS; WE HAVE TO REPAIR OUR INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, WHICH CAN ONLY BE DONE IF WE DO CHANGE PRESIDENTS; AND THEN WE NEED TO DO WHAT GEORGE BUSH'S FATHER DID, WHICH IS TO BRING 100,000 FOREIGN TROOPS, MANY OF THEM ARABIC SPEAKING, INTO IRAQ AND REPLACE ONE DIVISION OF THE TWO WE HAVE THERE AND ALL THE GUARD AND RESERVE TROOPS. IF WE DO THAT, THEN AMERICA WILL HAVE A PRESENCE IN IRAQ BUT IT WON'T BE THE KIND OF PRESENCE THAT WE HAVE NOW, WHERE WE'RE LOSING TWO OR THREE SOLDIERS --

Borg: IS IT WISE TO HAVE A TIME LINE, DEADLINES?

Dean: TO MOVE THE TROOPS OUT?

Borg: YES.

Dean: I THINK THAT'S UNWISE. I THINK IT'S WISE TO HAVE A TIME LINE TO GETS THE IRAQIS TO DEVELOP A CONSTITUTION. I THINK IT'S WISE TO HAVE A TIME LINE FOR THE IRAQIS TO TAKE OVER THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT. BUT I THINK IT'S UNWISE TO HAVE A DEADLINE FOR THE REMOVAL OF AMERICAN TROOPS.

Glover: GOVERNOR, IF YOU LOOK AT THE VOTE IN CONGRESS ON THE SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING FOR IRAQ, THE VOTE WAS PRETTY BIG. I BELIEVE ABOUT 88 SENATORS VOTED IN FAVOR OF A VERSION OF THAT FUNDING PACKAGE. ARE YOU MARGINALIZING YOUR POSITION?

Dean: I THINK MY POSITION IS THE CORRECT POSITION. YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT I WAS THE ONLY ONE OF THE DEMOCRATS TO STAND UP AGAINST THE WAR, OF THE FIVE LEADING DEMOCRATS THAT COULD BEAT PRESIDENT BUSH ACCORDING TO THE POLLS. I THINK MY POSITION HAS BEEN VINDICATED. I THINK THOSE OTHER DEMOCRATS ARE NOW ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WAR, WHICH THEY WEREN'T ASKING WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE WHEN THEY VOTED. THEY ALL VOTED TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT A BLANK CHECK. AGAIN, I THINK IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO FUND THEIR PRESENCE PROPERLY, AND THIS PRESIDENT DOESN'T DO IT. WE CANNOT RUN THE COUNTRY ON A CREDIT CARD, WHETHER IT HAS TO DO WITH TAX CUTS OR FOREIGN WARS OR WHATEVER IT IS. HARRY TRUMAN DIDN'T DO THAT WHEN WE WERE IN KOREA, AND THIS PRESIDENT SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT EITHER.

Glover: AND THERE WAS SOME DISAGREEMENT AMONG THE MAJOR DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ON THIS ISSUE. AT LEAST ONE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR THE SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING PACKAGE. IS THIS YET ANOTHER IRAQ DISAGREEMENT AMONG THE DEMOCRATS?

Dean: WELL, I THINK IT IS. I DON'T THINK THIS IRAQ DISAGREEMENT, FRANKLY, RISES TO THE LEVEL OF A BIG CAMPAIGN ISSUE. AND I DON'T INTEND TO MAKE WHETHER YOU VOTED FOR IT OR AGAINST THIS SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION A CAMPAIGN ISSUE I THINK THE REAL CAMPAIGN ISSUE IN IRAQ IS WHY YOU MADE THE JUDGMENT YOU MADE IN OCTOBER, BECAUSE THAT SPEAKS TO THE HEART OF WHAT IT TAKES TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. SOME OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE CRITICIZED ME BECAUSE I LACK A FOREIGN POLICY BACKGROUND. BUT THE TRUTH IS, I WAS ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE PRESIDENT WASN'T GIVING US THE FACTS AND NEVER DID MAKE A CASE FOR IRAQ. AND THEY ALL VOTED FOR THE PRESIDENT'S -- THE PRESIDENT'S WAR, AND NOW SOME HAVE COME, I THINK, TO REGRET IT. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY, THREE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT: ONE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD ADVISORS; TWO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE JUDGMENT AND PATIENCE. AND I THINK THAT WAS WHAT WAS LACKING IN THE CANDIDATES THAT SUPPORTED THE WAR.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, YOU'VE MENTIONED -- YOU'VE USED THE WORD "CREDIT CARD" A COUPLE TIMES. WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH RUNNING A DEFICIT IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC STRESS? I THOUGHT IT WAS AN ARTICLE OF FAITH IN OUR ECONOMY THAT WHEN TIMES WERE TOUGH, GOVERNMENTS CUT TAXES AND THE DEFICIT SPENT IN ORDER TO PROMPT MORE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

Dean: WHEN OUR TIMES WERE TOUGH IN VERMONT, I BALANCED MORE BUDGETS THAN ANYBODY RUNNING IN THIS RACE TOGETHER. WE DID NOT CUT TAXES BECAUSE IT MAKES THE DEFICIT WORSE. CUTTING TAXES DOES NOT HAVE A GREAT STIMULATIVE EFFECT ON THE CREATION OF JOBS. IF YOU'LL SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR ECONOMY NOW, SOME NUMBERS ARE GOING UP, EARNINGS ARE GOING UP, THE STOCK MARKET IS GOING UP. WHAT'S NOT GOING UP IS JOBS. WE DID HAVE AN INCREASE LAST MONTH. IT WAS MOSTLY TEMPORARY JOBS. IF YOU WANT TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY, YOU OUGHT TO INVEST DIRECTLY IN SMALL -- HELP SMALL BUSINESSES AND INVEST DIRECTLY IN THE CREATION OF JOBS BY REBUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S THE WAY TO DIRECTLY STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. THIS TRICKLE-DOWN STUFF DOESN'T WORK. REAGAN SHOWED THAT IT DIDN'T WORK AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THE PRESIDENT IS UNWILLING AND UNABLE TO LEARN FROM HISTORY.

Yepsen: YOU HAVE CALLED FOR WHAT YOU SAY IS REPEALING THE BUSH TAX CUTS. THAT'S RAISING TAXES, RIGHT?

Dean: WELL, WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THE ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT. I WILL SAY IT'S SIMPLY RETURNING TO THE FAIR TAXES THAT WE HAD WHEN BILL CLINTON WAS PRESIDENT. BUT THE REPUBLICANS, OF COURSE, WILL SAY IT'S RAISING TAXES.

Yepsen: WELL, ONE THING THAT JOHN KERRY SAYS, ONE OF YOUR OPPONENTS, IS THAT YOU'RE IN FACT RAISING TAXES ON THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THAT THERE'S A WHOLE CATEGORY OF LITTLE PEOPLE IN AMERICA WHO DO PROFIT FROM SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE IN THAT TAX CUT PACKAGE. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO SENATORY KERRY'S CRITICISM?

Dean: THE AVERAGE PERSON WHO MAKES $44,000 A YEAR IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH I WOULD SAY WOULD BE SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, GOT LESS THAN $400 WORTH OF TAX CUTS. THE AVERAGE PERSON IN THE TOP 1 PERCENT GOT $26,000 WORTH OF TAX CUTS. THIS TAX CUT DID NOT HELP ANYBODY IN THE MIDDLE CLASS. WHATEVER YOU GOT IN THE TAX CUT, IF YOU WERE A MIDDLE-CLASS PERSON, WAS EATEN UP IN HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT CHOSE NOT TO FUND THINGS LIKE HIGHER EDUCATION AND K-12 EDUCATION, NOT TO FUND THINGS LIKE FIRE PROTECTION OR POLICE PROTECTION. YOUR COLLEGE TUITIONS WENT THROUGH THE ROOF. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A MIDDLE-CLASS TAX CUT. I THINK THAT MOST AMERICANS WOULD BE HAPPY TO PAY THE SAME TAXES THEY PAID WHEN BILL CLINTON WAS PRESIDENT, WHICH IS WHAT I'M ADVOCATING, IF THEY COULD HAVE THE SAME ECONOMY THAT THEY HAD WHEN BILL CLINTON WAS PRESIDENT. AND I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.

Glover: YOU'RE PROPOSING AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PACKAGE TO TRY TO CURE THE ECONOMY. WHAT'S IN THAT PACKAGE AND WILL THIS CAMPAIGN EVER GET AROUND TO FOCUSING ON THE ECONOMY?

Dean: I HOPE SO. WE'VE TRIED TO FOCUS IT ON THE ECONOMY. HERE'S WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR JOBS, WHICH I THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE CAMPAIGN. ONE, THERE'S A SHORT-TERM STIMULUS, WHICH GIVES MONEY ESSENTIALLY TO STATES TO CREATE JOBS. THEY HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY ABOUT HOW THEY CAN CREATE THOSE JOBS. TWO, THERE'S SOME DIRECT HELP FOR SMALL BUSINESSES. THE POLICY OF THIS COUNTRY, NOT JUST THIS ADMINISTRATION BUT BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, HAS BEEN TO HELP LARGE CORPORATIONS IF THEY'LL LOCATE JOBS IN THE STATE. CORPORATIONS WILL MOVE THEIR JOBS AS SOON AS THEY CAN TO WHEREVER THEY CAN GET THE CHEAPEST AND BEST DEAL TO MAXIMIZE THEIR BOTTOM LINE. BUT SMALL BUSINESSES CREATE SEVEN OUT OF TEN JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND THEY DON'T MOVE THEIR JOBS OUT OF THEIR COMMUNITY. SO WE OUGHT TO HELP SMALL BUSINESSES GET HEALTH INSURANCE AND HELP THEM GET CAPITAL. IT'S MUCH HARDER TO WORK WITH SMALL BUSINESSES, BUT IT'S WORTH IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T MOVE THEIR JOBS. FINALLY, THE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

Glover: WHAT'S THE PRICE TAG ON YOUR PACKAGE?

Dean: IT'S A HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS OVER A TWO-YEAR PERIOD. THAT'S ONE-TIME MONEY.

Glover: WHERE DO YOU GET IT?

Dean: WE'RE GOING TO REPEAL THE BUSH TAX CUTS, AND THAT'S GOING TO ALLOW US: ONE, TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY; TWO, TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR EVERY AMERICAN; THREE, TO FULLY FUND SPECIAL EDUCATION; AND STILL HAVE ENOUGH LEFT OVER TO BALANCE THE BUDGET OVER A FIVE- OR SIX-YEAR PERIOD.

Glover: SO WHEN YOU REPEAL THE TAX CUT, YOU'LL USE THAT MONEY BOTH TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE PLAN AND TO PAY FOR YOUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN?

Dean: AND TO START TO BALANCE THE BUDGET, TO REDUCE EXPENDITURES.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, HELP THE DEMOCRAT OUT. LOTS OF DEMOCRATS ARE HAVING A HARD TIME DECIDING AMONG CANDIDATES. WE SEE THAT IN THE POLLS. THEY'RE UNDECIDED. YOU TALK TO THEM AND THEY HAVEN'T MADE UP THEIR MIND. WHY IS THE PLAN YOU JUST OUTLINED BETTER THAN THAT OF ANY OTHER ANY DEMOCRATIC CONTENDER?

Dean: WELL, MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE THAT I BELIEVE THAT MY PLAN IS THE ONLY ONE TO FOCUS ON SMALL BUSINESSES. NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT SAID A LOT OF THINGS. I THINK SENATOR KERRY HAS TALKED ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE DIVIDEND TAX, WHICH I THINK IS A HUGE MISTAKE. SENATOR EDWARDS HAS A PLAN, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR TO MINE. I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CRITICISMS OF THAT. BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD A PLAN YET -- AND IT COULD BE MY FAULT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY HAVEN'T SAID THIS, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD A PLAN YET THAT TALKED ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES. WE'RE IN A VERY RURAL STATE RIGHT NOW. MY STATE IS A VERY RURAL STATE. IF YOU WANT TO HELP RURAL STATES, YOU'VE GOT TO START WITH SMALL BUSINESSES. THAT'S A BIG ORDER. WE TALKED ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE AND CAPITAL. YOU'VE GOT TO TALK ABOUT REGULATIONS, WHICH IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR SMALL BUSINESSES. THAT'S THE KEY. THE KEY IS SMALL BUSINESSES. I'VE NOT HEARD OTHER CANDIDATES TALK ABOUT THAT.

Yepsen: YOU SAID WHEN YOU UNVEILED YOUR ECONOMIC PROGRAM THAT AMERICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SACRIFICE. WELL, WHAT HAVE YOU GOT IN MIND? WHAT SACRIFICES ARE GOING TO BE, BESIDES PAYING HIGHER TAXES?

Dean: WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SPENDING GO UP 20 PERCENT, AS IT HAS UNDER THIS PRESIDENT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LIMIT THE GROWTH OF ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS. WE DON'T HAVE TO CUT -- AS I SAID BEFORE, I'VE BALANCED BUDGETS. THAT'S WHAT GOVERNORS DO. I WENT THROUGH BOTH BUSH RECESSIONS, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM. AS WE WERE COMING OUT OF THE RECESSION, WE DIDN'T HAVE HUGE TAX CUTS, ALTHOUGH WE DID HAVE SOME. WE NEVER LET THE LEGISLATURE SPEND MORE THAN 5.2 PERCENT OVER THEIR LAST BUDGET IN A PREVIOUS YEAR, NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAD. WE PUT A LOT OF MONEY ASIDE, AND WE PAID OFF A LOT OF DEBT. NOW, THE WAY THAT YOU BALANCE BUDGETS AND KEEP THEM BALANCED IS TO RESTRICT SPENDING, NOT TO ALLOW IT TO GO UP TOO FAST. AND SPENDING INCLUDES TAX CUTS, TAX CUTS FROM A REVENUE -- FROM A BALANCED POINT OF VIEW ARE THE SAME THING AS SPENDING. THE OTHER THING IS THAT WHEN CLINTON WAS PRESIDENT, THEY HAD SOMETHING CALLED THE "PAY AS YOU GO" PROVISION, AND PRESIDENT BUSH GOT RID OF IT. IT WAS A VERY SMART THING, EVEN THOUGH SPENDERS DIDN'T LIKE IT. WHAT IT SAID WAS, IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADD MONEY TO THE BUDGET, YOU HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT. YOU EITHER RAISE TAXES OR YOU CUT SOMETHING ELSE. THAT'S A VERY SMART THING TO DO, AND I WANT TO REINSTITUTE THAT.

Glover: THERE'S BEEN A BIG FLAP IN THE DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN OVER YOUR POSITION ON MEDICARE. LET'S GO WITH WHO SAID WHAT AND WHAT STARTED THIS WHOLE FIGHT. YOUR CRITICS, THE OTHER CANDIDATES, HAVE SAID THAT YOU AT ONE POINT FAVORED REPUBLICAN EFFORTS TO SCALE BACK ON MEDICARE. WHAT DO YOU SAY AND HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO IT?

Dean: I ACTUALLY LAUGH ABOUT IT. WHEN I FIRST STARTED RUNNING AND STARTED DOING WELL, THEY ALL SAID I WAS SO LIBERAL, I WAS LIKE GEORGE MCGOVERN AND I COULDN'T WIN. THEN ONE OF THE CANDIDATES SAID I WAS LIKE NEWT GINGRICH, AND LAST WEEK HE PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE SAYING I WAS TALKING LIKE RUSH LIMBAUGH. SO I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT JUST EXACTLY WHERE I AM ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. YOU KNOW, MIKE, THE TRUTH IS MEDICARE WAS IN TROUBLE. I PROPOSED SOME THINGS TO FIX IT. BILL CLINTON EVENTUALLY SIGNED SOME THINGS INTO LAW THAT DID FIX IT, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING. I THINK THE BATTLE IS NOT SO MUCH OVER WHAT WAS SAID AND WHO SAID WHAT EIGHT YEARS AGO, THE QUESTION IS WHAT YOU'VE DONE. THE PEOPLE THAT I'M RUNNING AGAINST FOR PRESIDENT ARE GOOD PEOPLE, BUT THEY'VE BEEN IN THE CONGRESS FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. I DON'T SEE ANY SENIORS WITH PRESCRIPTION BENEFITS. A THIRD OF ALL THE SENIORS IN MY STATE HAVE PRESCRIPTION BENEFITS. THAT'S WHAT GOVERNORS DO. WE DO STUFF. ALL THE KIDS IN MY STATE HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE UNDER THE AGE OF 18, EVERYBODY UNDER 150 PERCENT OF POVERTY, ALL OUR WORKING POOR PEOPLE, A THIRD OF OUR SENIORS HAVE PRESCRIPTION BENEFITS, WHICH WE HAVE TO PAY FOR. I'D LIKE TO GET SOMETHING DONE INSTEAD OF JUST HAVE THESE ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHO SAID WHAT WHEN EIGHT YEARS AGO.

Glover: WELL, IS THERE SOME VULNERABILITY THERE? AT TWO OF YOUR RIVALS HAVE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THIS RELENTLESSLY IN THIS LAST THREE MONTHS LEADING UP TO THE CAUCUSES. ARE YOU VULNERABLE TO SOME POLITICAL DAMAGE THERE?

Dean: I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT MY RECORD. I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT'S EVER DONE ANYTHING ABOUT PRESCRIPTION BENEFITS. NONE OF THESE GUYS FROM WASHINGTON HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT HEALTH CARE. WHAT HAVE THEY DONE? TELL ME. TELL ME WHO HAS PRESCRIPTION BENEFITS OUTSIDE VERMONT. SOME OTHER STATES DO BUT NOT BECAUSE ANYTHING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT --

Glover: THEY'LL TELL YOU THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PLANS.

Dean: I'M SURE THEY HAVE PLANS. MICHAEL, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE A PLAN. WHO HAS DONE IT? IT'S THE ADVANTAGE THAT EVERY GOVERNOR HAS. WE HAVE TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS TO BALANCE THE BUDGET, SO WE'LL HAVE SOME VULNERABILITIES THERE. BUT IN TERMS OF HEALTH CARE, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO FIND ANYBODY WHO HAS DONE ANYTHING IN HEALTH CARE OTHER THAN ME. I'M A GOVERNOR AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT BECAUSE I'VE BEEN A GOVERNOR.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, IN YOUR PLAN, YOU WERE KIND OF HAZY ON WHEN YOU EXPECT TO ACHIEVE A BALANCED BUDGET. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN YOUR SECOND TERM. I MEAN CAN'T WE EXPECT A LITTLE MORE --

Dean: YOU CAN EVENTUALLY. WE'RE HAVE A BIG INTERNAL FIGHT ABOUT IT. I WANT TO DO IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, AND SOME OF MY OTHER GUYS ARE SAYING, WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER THING. MY GOAL IS FIVE YEARS. SOME PEOPLE SAY IT CAN'T BE DONE FOR SIX. SOME SAY SEVEN. SO WE HAVEN'T RESOLVED THAT YET.

Yepsen: ANOTHER ISSUE THAT THERE'S BEEN A DUST-UP IN THIS CAMPAIGN ABOUT IS OVER THE ISSUE OF TRADE AND FREE TRADE. SOME OF YOUR OPPONENTS ARE SAYING YOU'VE BEEN TOO SUPPORTIVE OF THINGS LIKE NAFTA AND FREE TRADE. WHAT'S YOUR POSITION ON THAT? HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR POSITION ON TRADE?

Dean: I THINK I PROBABLY HAVE. HERE'S WHAT I'VE DONE. I SUPPORTED NAFTA. WE'RE RIGHT UP AGAINST THE CANADIAN BORDER. WE QUADRUPLED OUR TRADE WITH CANADA. I SUPPORTED THE ADMISSION OF CHINA INTO THE WTO BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS GEOPOLITICALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA. BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE WTO AND NAFTA HAVE BEEN WRITTEN TO BENEFIT MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS AND NOT WORKING PEOPLE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. WE'RE NOT GOING TO ROLL THE CLOCK BACK ON GLOBALIZATION, NOR DO I THINK WE SHOULD. MY POSITION IS THAT WE OUGHT TO REVISIT NAFTA AND THE WTO AND USE THE ECONOMIC POWER OF THE UNITED STATES TO INSIST THAT IF COUNTRIES ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO IMPORT THEIR PRODUCTS INTO THE UNITED STATES -- OR EXPORT THEIR PRODUCT TO THE UNITED STATES WITHOUT TARIFFS OR DUTIES, THEY HAVE TO HAVE LABOR STANDARDS AND ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS AND HUMAN RIGHTS STANDARDS THAT OUR COMPARABLE TO OURS. THE SHORT HAND IS IF IT'S OKAY TO MOVE A PLANT FROM GALESBURG, ILLINOIS, OR FROM IOWA TO MEXICO, THEN THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GO DOWN AND ORGANIZE THOSE PLANTS FREELY. AND IF THEY CAN'T DO THAT, WE DON'T HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO REIMPORT THOSE PRODUCTS WITH NO DUTIES.

Yepsen: AND THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS ONE OF YOUR OPPONENTS, JOE LIEBERMAN, SAYS THAT WILL CREATE THE DEAN DEPRESSION.

Dean: THAT'S SILLINESS. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HUGE TARIFFS ON EVERY PRODUCT SO NOBODY CAN HAVE -- I'M NOT ANTI-TRADE. I TELL EVERY GROUP, INCLUDING UNION GROUPS, I'M PRO-TRADE BUT WE WANT FAIR TRADE. TRADE IS A GOOD THING. IF WE CAN -- WHAT I WANT TO DO IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR -- LET'S JUST SAY -- LET'S USE MEXICO AS THE EXAMPLE, BECAUSE IT'S PART OF NAFTA. WHAT IT WILL DO IS RAISE THE STANDARD OF LIVING IN MEXICO. IT WILL GIVE -- IT WILL RAISE THE COST OF PRODUCTION, SO WE'LL PAY A LITTLE MORE FOR OUR WASHING MACHINES THAT ARE MADE THERE. BUT IT WILL SLOW THE FLOW OF JOBS OUT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT WILL CREATE A MEXICAN MIDDLE CLASS. SO IT WILL ALSO REDUCE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, BECAUSE MEXICANS WILL BE ABLE TO STAY AND MAKE MONEY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY WITH A DECENT LIVING STANDARD. I THINK IT'S A GOOD WAY WITHOUT ABOLISHING NAFTA AND THE WTO, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE, I THINK IT'S A GOOD WAY TO START TO RESOLVE THE INEQUITIES IN THE TRADING -- OF OUR TRADE PROBLEMS IN THIS COUNTRY.

Borg: I'M CURIOUS ABOUT ONE PROGRAM, AND THAT'S HOW YOU'D SPEND ON SPACE EXPLORATION. THE CHINESE THIS WEEK, AS YOU KNOW, PUT A MAN IN SPACE FOR A FEW ORBITS. YOU'VE ALREADY SAID EARLIER IN THIS DISCUSSION THAT YOU BALANCE BUDGETS BY RESTRICTING SPENDING. WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THE PRIORITY ON SPACE EXPLORATION?

Dean: THAT'S A BIG PRIORITY OF MINE. I BELIEVE MAN'S SPACE EXPLORATION AND OTHER RESEARCH ORIENTED PROGRAMS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. WHAT PEOPLE DISCOVER THROUGH SPACE EXPLORATION OFTEN ENDS UP ON THEIR KITCHEN TABLE OR IN THEIR OFFICE. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT IN ORDER FOR AMERICA TO KEEP ITS TECHNOLOGICAL EDGE, WE DO HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD MANNED SPACE PROGRAM. THE TRUTH IS, THOUGH, THAT'S A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE BUDGET. YOU COULD ADD A LOT OF MONEY TO THE NASA BUDGET AND NOBODY WOULD NOTICE IT WITH A $2.1-TRILLION BUDGET.

Borg: WOULD YOU ADD A LOT?

Dean: I WOULD ADD SOME.

Borg: TO DO WHAT?

Dean: I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE MANNED SPACE EXPLORATION. I AM INCREDIBLY INTERESTED IN A MANNED SPACE EXPLORATION TO MARS. NOW, I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO WHAT JOHN F. KENNEDY DID AND SAY WE'LL BE THERE IN TEN YEARS, BECAUSE THERE'S SOME TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, INCLUDING DISTANCE, THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT MANNED EXPLORATION OF SPACE IS AN IMPORTANT THING FOR AMERICA TO DO.

Glover: YOU MENTIONED EARLY YOU ARE IN A RURAL STATE. YOU'RE FROM A RURAL STATE, VERMONT.

Dean: EVEN THOUGH, AS DAVID POINTED OUT IN HIS COLUMN, I WASN'T BORN THERE.

Glover: I'LL ALLOW YOU TO TAKE A PASS ON THAT.

Dean: THAT'S RIGHT.

Glover: WHAT DO YOU BRING TO THE IOWA FARMER?

Dean: AN AG PROGRAM THAT STOPS VERTICAL INTEGRATION, STOPS PACKER OWNERSHIP, AND HAS A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT WILL ENFORCE ANTITRUST LAWS SO THAT FARMERS THAT HAVE CONTRACTS DON'T GET PUSHED OVER, HAS A DECENT ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, AND ALLOWS LOCAL PEOPLE TO DECIDE WHERE HOG LOTS GO.

Glover: AND AS WE SAID EARLIER, THIS IS "IOWA PRESS." IT WOULDN'T BE AN OFFICIAL "IOWA PRESS" SHOW IF WE DIDN'T JUST TALK ABOUT PURE POLITICS.

Dean: ALL RIGHT.

Glover: YOUR CRITICS SAY THEY HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR ELECTABILITY. YOU MENTIONED GEORGE MCGOVERN EARLIER. SOME OF YOUR CRITICS SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE NOMINATING A GEORGE MCGOVERN.

Dean: THAT WAS BEFORE THEY DECIDED I WAS NEWT GINGRICH.

Glover: EXACTLY. OR NEWT GINGRICH, WHO STANDS LITTLE CHANCE OF BEING PRESIDENT.

Dean: THAT'S RIGHT.

Glover: MAKE THE CASE FOR HOWARD DEAN GETTING ELECTED.

Dean: IT'S POSSIBLE THAT I'M ONLY DEMOCRAT THAT CAN GET ELECTED. LET ME TELL YOU WHY. EVERY OTHER DEMOCRAT IN THIS RACE BELIEVES THAT THE WAY TO BEAT BUSH IS TO BE A LITTLE LIKE HIM: YOU SUPPORT THE WAR; YOU SUPPORT SOME OF THE TAXES; YOU CAN SUPPORT NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND, WHICH IS ANOTHER HUGE DIFFERENCE OF OPINION BETWEEN US. I BELIEVE THAT THE WAY TO BEAT GEORGE BUSH IS TO BRING A LOT OF NEW PEOPLE INTO THE PROCESS. FIFTY PERCENT OF THESE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DON'T VOTE. A LOT OF THEM HAVE GIVEN UP VOTING IN THE LAST TEN OR FIFTEEN YEARS BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T DECIDE THAT THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS. WE ALREADY HAVE A HALF MILLION PEOPLE THAT WE'VE REACHED OUT TO. WE RAISED THREE TIMES AS MUCH MONEY AS EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE IN THIS RACE, AND WE DID IT BY HAVING AN AVERAGE DONATION OF $75 WITH 200,000 DONATIONS. THAT'S HOW YOU BEAT GEORGE BUSH IS YOU WIDEN THE SCOPE OF THE ELECTORATE. AND I THINK WE'RE THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT'S LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN VERMONT. HOW RELEVANT IS THAT TO THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY FOR YOU TO KEEP CITING VERMONT ALL THE TIME. IT'S A SMALL STATE. IT'S GOT A VERY HOMOGENEOUS POPULATION. IS THAT -- ARE THOSE LESSONS -- IS YOUR EXPERIENCE THERE REALLY RELEVANT TO THE FEDERAL EXPERIENCE?

Dean: ARKANSAS WAS A SMALL STATE. GEORGIA, AT THE TIME JIMMY CARTER WAS ELECTED, WAS A SMALL STATE. I THINK THAT WHAT IS RELEVANT IS I KNOW HOW TO MANAGE BUDGETS. YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP A CERTAIN SKILL SET AS GOVERNOR THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AS A LEGISLATOR. WHEN YOU GO TO WASHINGTON, YOU'RE PAID NOT TO STIR UP TOO MUCH CONTROVERSY, NOT TO STIR UP TOO MUCH ANTIPATHY FOR THE INTEREST GROUPS. I HAVE TO OFFEND SOMEBODY EVERY DAY BECAUSE I HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT'S EITHER THIS WAY OR THAT WAY AND THEN RESPECTFULLY TELL PEOPLE WHY THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY WANT. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT IN A PRESIDENT.

Yepsen: AND I UNDERSTAND HOW FOUR OF THE LAST FIVE AMERICAN PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN GOVERNORS BEFORE THEY WERE ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY. BUT SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT PROVES A POINT, THAT SOME OF THE NATION'S PROBLEMS HAVE OCCURRED, SUCH AS IN FOREIGN POLICY, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD LEADERS WHO JUST WEREN'T EXPERIENCED IN FOREIGN POLICY. WHY AT THIS STAGE WOULDN'T WE BE BETTER OFF ELECTING ONE OF THOSE WASHINGTON CANDIDATES UNDER THE NOTION THAT THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD THAN YOU DO?

Dean: YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW AS THE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T KNOW EVERYTHING. IT'S HOW GOOD THE PEOPLE ARE AROUND YOU AND WHAT THE PROCESS -- WHAT YOUR THINKING PROCESS IS. I THOUGHT BILL CLINTON'S PROCESS -- FOREIGN POLICY WAS FAR SUPERIOR TO GEORGE BUSH'S, EVEN THOUGH GEORGE BUSH HAD GREAT PEOPLE AROUND HIM WHO HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. THE REASON IS BILL CLINTON'S JUDGMENT. HE WAS ABLE TO MAKE SUBSTANTIAL GAINS AND A PEACEFUL SOLUTION IN NORTHERN IRELAND. HE ALMOST PULLED OFF THE COUP OF THE LAST FIFTY YEARS BY BRINGING THE ISRAELIS AND THE PALESTINIANS TOGETHER. PERSONAL JUDGMENT OF THE PRESIDENT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, AND YOU CAN FIND THAT IN ANY STATE IN THE UNION.

Glover: YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOU'VE DONE PRETTY WELL FUND-RAISING, RECENTLY A LOT BETTER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES. YOU'RE COMING HARD UP ON A DECISION PRETTY QUICKLY ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO ACCEPT PUBLIC FUNDING FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN, WHICH WILL MAKE YOU SUBJECT TO SPENDING LIMITS. WHERE ARE YOU IN THAT DECISION?

Dean: WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE. WE'RE GOING TO ASK A LOT OF OUR DONORS WHAT THEY THINK WE OUGHT TO DO JUST BECAUSE THIS IS A PRETTY DEMOCRATICALLY RUN CAMPAIGN. I DON'T WANT TO BORE YOUR VIEWERS, BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY OUR --

Glover: BELIEVE ME, YOU WON'T BORE OUR VIEWERS.

Dean: WELL, THE DEAL IS THIS. THE PRESIDENT CAN RAISE $200 MILLION. WE CAN RAISE A LOT OF MONEY BECAUSE WE HAVE A VERY LOYAL, VERY BROAD BAND OF DONORS, A LOT MORE THAN $45 MILLION. BUT THERE'S A CASH-FLOW PROBLEM EARLY ON IF WE DON'T TAKE THE MATCH IN THE FIRST PRIMARIES. OTHER PEOPLE WILL TAKE THE MATCH. THEY'LL HAVE MORE MONEY TEMPORARILY THAN WE WILL, EVEN THOUGH WE'LL BE ABLE TO RAISE A LOT MORE THAN THEY WILL. THAT'S ANOTHER REASON I THINK WE CAN BEAT GEORGE BUSH IS WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO RAISE ABOUT THREE OR FOUR TIMES AS MUCH MONEY AS ANY OF THE OTHER DEMOCRATS.

Glover: THEN LET'S DEAL WITH ANOTHER PRAGMATIC PROBLEM. LET'S SAY HOWARD DEAN IS THE NOMINEE ON, SAY, MARCH 2, WHEN A LOT OF BIG STATES VOTE. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR MONEY FROM MARCH 2 UNTIL JULY?

Dean: NOW THAT'S THE ARGUMENT FOR NOT TAKING THE MATCH, BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE THE MATCH, WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY EARLY ON. WE'LL HAVE $45 MILLION BY THE TIME THE PRIMARY STARTS, BECAUSE WE'VE RAISED SO MUCH MONEY. AND MOST OF IT'S MATCHABLE BECAUSE IT'S ALL SMALL DONATIONS. IF WE DON'T -- IF WE TAKE THE MATCH, WE'LL RUN OUT OF MONEY BY MARCH WHATEVER IT IS. THEN WE HAVE NOTHING TO FIGHT OFF THE PRESIDENT WITH, WHO HAS ALL THIS MONEY. SO THE ARGUMENT AGAINST TAKING THE MATCH IS IF WE DON'T WE'LL SUFFER A LITTLE EARLY ON, BUT WE'LL HAVE STAYING POWER THROUGH THE WHOLE RACE INTO AUGUST WHEN BOTH SIDES ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FEDERAL MONEY.

Glover: JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHEN DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION BY?

Dean: I'M NOT SURE. IT'S NOT TODAY SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T MADE IT YET.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, SOME RECENT POLLS -- DEAN MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, YOU'RE ONE OF THE FRONT-RUNNERS HERE AND MOST POLLS SHOW THAT. BUT A COUPLE RECENT POLLS HAVE SHOWN DICK GEPHARDT MOVING A POINT OR TWO AHEAD OF YOU. HAVE YOU PEAKED TOO EARLY HERE?

Dean: I DON'T THINK SO. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S -- I THINK DICK IS RUNNING A GOOD CAMPAIGN IN IOWA, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE'VE BEEN BASICALLY TIED FOR MONTHS. I THINK THE BIGGEST POLL THAT I'VE SEEN WAS THAT WE HAD A 3-POINT LEAD ON HIM. AND I THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 3-POINT LEAD AND BEING ONE POINT BEHIND IS ESSENTIALLY THE MARGIN OF ERROR. SO I WOULD SAY THAT GEPHARDT AND I HAVE BEEN TIED FOR QUITE SOME TIME. HE'S A VERY COMPETITIVE, HARD WORKING GUY. HE'S BEEN THROUGH THIS BEFORE IN IOWA. HE WON THE IOWA CAUCUS IN 1988. IF YOU TOLD ME SIX MONTHS AGO I WOULD HAVE BEEN TIED FOR THE LEAD WITH DICK GEPHARDT, I WOULD HAVE BEEN THRILLED.

Glover: AND ARE YOU WORRIED OR ALARMED BY THE FREQUENT USE OF THE WORD "FRONT-RUNNER" BEFORE HOWARD DEAN?

Dean: NO BECAUSE -- YOU KNOW, ONE THING ABOUT PEOPLE IN IOWA -- I SHOULD TELL A QUICK STORY. I WAS HAVING DINNER WITH MY ROOMMATE'S -- MY DAUGHTER'S ROOMMATE'S PARENTS ONE TIME IN CONNECTICUT, AND THIS WAS A LONG TIME -- THIS WAS AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS. AND SHE SAID, "WELL, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO NOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE MY -- THE ROOMMATE'S MOM SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO NOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN?" I SAID, "WELL, I'M GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT." THIS BIG SMILE CAME OVER HER FACE, AND SHE STARTED TO LAUGH. AND THEN SHE SORT OF REALIZED THAT WASN'T POLITE. AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL LAUGH IN CONNECTICUT BUT THEY DON'T LAUGH IN IOWA BECAUSE THEY GET TO DECIDE WHETHER YOU RUN FOR PRESIDENT OR NOT. IOWANS KNOW. THEY GET THE SCORE AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE PUT OFF IF SOMEBODY IS CALLED THE FRONT-RUNNER OR IF SOMEBODY ISN'T, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY GET TO DECIDE WHO IS THE FRONT-RUNNER.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WE'VE GOT JUST A MINUTE LEFT. WE'VE CERTAINLY SET THE AGENDA HERE WITH OUR QUESTIONS, AND I WANT TO GIVE YOU -- THIS IS A FREE THROW. WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WANT IOWA DEMOCRATS TO KNOW ABOUT YOU AND YOUR CANDIDACY BEFORE THEY GO IN TO VOTE ON CAUCUS NIGHT.

Dean: WHAT I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IS TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE GETTING THINGS DONE. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN, IS GETTING THINGS DONE, NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT POSITION PAPERS. SECOND OF ALL, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN IS JOBS. WE'VE GOT TO PUT PEOPLE BACK TO WORK. THAT MEANS INVESTING IN SMALL BUSINESSES, CREATING JOBS BY BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE, AND CHANGING OUR TRADE AGREEMENTS SO THAT WE STOP SHIPPING OUR MANUFACTURING JOBS OFFSHORE. IF WE CAN DO THOSE THREE THINGS IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, WE'LL HAVE CHANGED AMERICA FOR THE BETTER.

Borg: GOVERNOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING TIME TO BE WITH US TODAY.

Dean: THANK YOU. >>

Borg: THAT'S THIS WEEKEND'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK, SAME TIMES: 7:30 FRIDAY; SUNDAY AT NOON. I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH AT THOSE TIMES. I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.