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Iowa Political Journalists

(#3112)
November 21, 2003

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IOWA PRESS #3112 >>

Borg: DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDERS INTENSIFY THEIR IOWA CAUCUS CAMPAIGNS. INSIGHTS FROM IOWA POLITICAL JOURNALISTS ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION;

AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 21 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DEAN BORG.

Borg: A WEEK AGO IOWA'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY GLOWED IN THE NATIONAL POLITICAL SPOTLIGHT AS SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON PARADED SIX OF THE PARTY'S PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ON THE STAGE AT THE ANNUAL JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER IN DES MOINES. IT WAS ANOTHER OF THE EVERMORE FREQUENT NATIONALLY TELEVISED EVENTS LEADING TOWARD THE JANUARY 19 IOWA PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE CAUCUSES. IN FACT, THIS MONDAY THERE'S A NATIONALLY TELEVISED DEBATE COMING FROM DES MOINES. FOR PERSPECTIVE, WE'VE CONVENED IOWA JOURNALISTS: "DES MOINES REGISTER" COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN, "RADIO IOWA" NEWS DIRECTOR KAY HENDERSON, "ASSOCIATED PRESS" SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER MIKE GLOVER, AND "KUNI" STATEHOUSE REPORTER JENEANE BECK. AND, JENEANE, I'LL START OFF WITH YOU TALKING ABOUT THE JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER. YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT SAY THAT THOSE WERE DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS THAT WERE AT THAT DINNER. MANY OF -- MOST OF THOSE WILL BE AT THE CAUCUSES, A FEW MORE PEOPLE THAT WEREN'T AT THE DINNER. BIT GIVEN THE MESSAGES THAT WERE DELIVERED THERE, DO YOU THINK IT CHANGED ANYTHING?

Beck: I THINK IT EXCITED THEM, MAYBE ENERGIZED THEM. I DON'T THINK IT CHANGED THEIR DECISION AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE SO MANY OF THEM STILL REMAIN UNDECIDED FROM THOSE I TALKED TO. ONE THING THAT I HAVE HEARD FROM A COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE, THE BIG SURPRISE FOR THEM WAS JOHN EDWARDS. THEY KNEW THAT HOWARD DEAN WAS GOING TO HAVE A HUGE PUSH THERE. THEY KNEW THAT JOHN KERRY WAS GOING TO HAVE A BIG CROWD THERE. BUT THEY WERE SURPRISED TO SEE THE CROWD AND THE ENERGY AND SPEECH THAT JOHN EDWARDS GAVE AND THOUGHT HE DID WELL.

Glover: DEAN, THIS CAMPAIGN, LIKE MOST CAMPAIGNS, IS A SERIES OF STAGES THAT YOU GO THROUGH. RIGHT AROUND LABOR DAY -- WE LABORED IN ANONYMITY THROUGHOUT THE LAST SPRING AND THE SUMMER. THEN AROUND LABOR DAY THINGS KIND OF STEPPED UP A LITTLE BIT, AND WE GOT INTO THE FALL AND THINGS STEPPED UP A LITTLE BIT MORE. THE JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER IS A TRADITIONAL STEP-UP PLACE. IT'S A PLACE WHERE THE STATE GETS A LOT OF ATTENTION, A LOT OF JOURNALISTS COME OUT HERE, AND THE INTENSITY OF THE CAMPAIGN RATCHETS UP ONE NOTCH. AND I THINK JENEANE IS RIGHT: THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED AT THE JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER. THE NEXT RAMP UP WILL BE JANUARY 2, WHEN THE CAMPAIGN GETS REAL.

Borg: TALKING ABOUT RAMP UPS, WAS IT A RAMP UP, KAY, FOR ANYTHING CONCERNING HILLARY CLINTON? THEY BROUGHT HER OUT TO M.C. THE EVENT. AND AS I SAID, SHE PARADED SIX OF THE CANDIDATES ON AND GOT QUITE A LOT OF EXPOSURE HERSELF WITH LEADING THE PARTY AT THAT POINT. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Henderson: WELL, SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE HALL ARE INTERESTED IN HER AS A CANDIDATE. BUT I WAS STRUCK THE NEXT DAY. I WENT OUT TO WEST DES MOINES TO A BOOK SIGNING THAT SHE HAD, AND OVER A THOUSAND PEOPLE LINED UP TO GET HER AUTOGRAPH ON HER NEW BOOK. WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO ME AND EVERYONE I TALKED TO IN THAT LINE, THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN HILLARY CLINTON AS A CANDIDATE THIS TIME AROUND. THEY'RE INTERESTED IN HILLARY CLINTON AS A CANDIDATE NEXT TIME AROUND. SO I THINK SOME OF THE REALLY CORE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ACTIVISTS HAVE SORT OF SOLIDIFIED BEHIND THIS FIELD AND HAVE COME TO REALIZE THAT THESE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM WHOM THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THEIR CHOICE. THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THE J-J DINNER, AS IT DID JENEANE, WAS HOW WELL JOHN EDWARDS DID, AND ALSO THE FACT THAT JOHN KERRY AND HIS CAMPAIGN DECIDED TO MAKE THAT EVENT SORT OF A JUMPING OFF POINT, IF YOU WILL, A RENAISSANCE FOR HIS CAMPAIGN. HE FIRED HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER EARLIER THAT WEEK. HE HAD A RENEWED MESSAGE. HE ALL WEEK LONG TOLD US HE WAS A FIGHTER. AND HE WAS TRYING TO CREATE SOME MOMENTUM FOR A CAMPAIGN THAT HAS HERETOFORE BEEN SORT OF AT A STEADY CLIP AND HASN'T REALLY BEEN ECLIPSING ANYONE ELSE.

Yepsen: I AGREE. I THINK HILLARY WAS SENDING -- HILLARY CLINTON, SENATOR CLINTON, WAS SENDING A SIGNAL ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE. NO, SHE'S NOT RUNNING IN '04. BUT '08, '12, SURE. A PERSON OF THAT POLITICAL STATURE COMING TO IOWA IN THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT SENDS A HUGE SIGNAL TO THE 7,500 DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS: KEEP ME IN MIND. AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE ACTIVISTS LOOKING AT HER WAS LOOKING NOT ONLY AT WHAT SHE WAS SAYING BUT HOW SHE STOOD AGAINST THE OTHER CANDIDATES. AND I THINK ON THAT TEST, SHE DID HERSELF SOME GOOD. AND I THINK SHE CAME OFF AS SOMEONE THE DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS WOULD WANT TO BACK FOR PRESIDENT SOMEDAY. I THINK SHE INTENDED TO SEND THAT SIGNAL.

Glover: THERE WAS AN INTERESTING COMPARISON THE MORNING AFTER THE JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER. KAY IS RIGHT; SENATOR CLINTON WENT TO A BOOK STORE IN WEST DES MOINES TO SIGN COPIES OF HER NEW BOOK FOR PEOPLE. ABOUT A THOUSAND PEOPLE LINED UP TO GET A COPY OF HER NEW BOOK. JUST ACROSS TOWN, THREE CANDIDATES WHO REALLY ARE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WERE AT A JEWISH SYNAGOGUE AND HAD 200 PEOPLE COME TO LISTEN TO THEM TALK ABOUT THEIR VIEWS. THAT'S THE COMPARISON.

Yepsen: SHE DOES ECLIPSE THE FIELD. AND I HEARD SOME LOW-KEY GRUMBLING FROM SOME OF THE STAFF LEVEL THAT WHEN YOU BRING A STAR LIKE THAT IN, IT DOES TAKE SOME OF THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE OTHER CANDIDATES.

Henderson: BUT LIKE DAVID SAID, THAT IS THE FIRST TIME MANY IOWA DEMOCRATS EVER SAW HER IN A CAPACITY BEYOND FIRST LADY. THIS WAS HER FIRST REAL POLITICAL SPEECH ON THE FIELD OF IOWA, AND SO IT WAS AN IMPORTANT MOMENT FOR HER ON DOWN THE ROAD.

Borg: YOU SAID POLITICAL SPEECH. WAS IT REALLY A POLITICAL -- IT WAS A POLITICAL APPEARANCE PERHAPS FOR HER, BUT DID SHE MAKE ANY POLITICAL POINTS?

Henderson: SHE DID. SHE ENUMERATED THE WAYS IN WHICH HER HUSBAND HAD HELPED THE AMERICAN ECONOMY AND THE WAYS IN WHICH SHE BELIEVES GEORGE BUSH HAS HURT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY. SO IT WAS CLEARLY A POLITICAL SPEECH.

Yepsen: I THOUGHT SHE HAD SOMETHING TO SAY, SORT OF BETWEEN THE LINES AND IN AN INTERVIEW I DID WITH HER, TO THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES THAT IT'S JUST NOT ENOUGH TO BE CRITICIZING GEORGE BUSH, THAT YOU'VE GOT TO PRESENT THE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE. AND SHE POINTED OUT THAT THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENT CLINTON DID IN HIS '92 CAMPAIGN. IT WASN'T JUST ENOUGH TO BASH THE FIRST PRESIDENT BUSH. YOU HAD TO HAVE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO SAY. SO I THINK SHE WAS SENDING A SIGNAL ALSO TO THE CANDIDATES AND THE REST OF THE PARTY TO COME UP WITH SOME SPECIFICITY ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH THE COUNTRY.

Glover: IT'S A REAL DANGER THAT FACES THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD BECAUSE THERE IS, AMONG CORE DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS, A SORT OF RABID ANTI-BUSH SENTIMENT. AND IT'S VERY TEMPTING FOR THESE CANDIDATES TO TRY TO TAP INTO THAT SENTIMENT TO SEE WHO CAN BE THE MOST HARSH AGAINST PRESIDENT BUSH, WHO CAN HIT PRESIDENT BUSH THE HARDEST, BECAUSE THAT GETS ACTIVISTS' JUICES GOING, IT GETS THEM WORKED UP. SO TO GIVE A THOUGHTFUL POLICY SPEECH AND SAY THIS IS WHAT I THINK WE OUGHT TO DO WITH TAX POLICY, FOR EXAMPLE, IS A FAR LESS RESPONSIVE CHORD YOU'RE GOING TO FIND AMONG CORE DEMOCRATS. IT'S A HARD BALANCE TO STRIKE.

Borg: LET ME GO BACK JUST FOR A SECOND, KAY. YOU USED THE WORD "TEMPTING." AND TEMPTING TO ME SAYS HE MAY TAKE THE BAIT.

Glover: IF I WALK INTO A JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER, I'M TALKING TO 7,500 DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS WHO HATE GEORGE BUSH, AND THERE'S NO LESS WORD TO USE. AND IT'S VERY TEMPTING TO WALK INTO THAT AUDIENCE, TO PULL OUT THE RED MEAT AND THROW IT TO THEM, AND GIVE THEM SEVEN MINUTES OF RED MEAT.

Yepsen: YOU WOULDN'T DO A POLICY SPEECH AT A J-J DINNER OR SOME RALLY WHERE EVERYBODY HAS HAD TOO MANY BEERS. BUT EVEN THE POLICY STUFF OFTENTIMES DOESN'T GET THE ATTENTION THAT THE RED MEAT RHETORIC DOES. AND THAT'S, UNFORTUNATELY, A PROBLEM, I THINK, THAT FALLS ON THE SHOULDERS OF THOSE OF US IN THE MEDIA. IT'S A MUCH HOTTER STORY TO TALK ABOUT SOMEBODY RIPPING INTO SOMEBODY THAN IT IS TO TALK ABOUT SOMEBODY'S TAX PROGRAM OR INFRASTRUCTURE POLICY, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME OF THESE ISSUES OUT THERE. DICK GEPHARDT IS TALKING ABOUT PENSION REFORM. THEY'VE ALL GOT -- BUT THEY DO GET ECLIPSED BY SOME OF THE HOT RHETORIC.

Borg: KAY?

Henderson: BUT ONE THING THAT WE HEARD ON SATURDAY NIGHT FROM JOHN EDWARDS IN RELATIONSHIP TO HOWARD DEAN: WE CAN'T JUST TAP INTO THAT ANGER. THE OTHER CANDIDATES ARE TRYING TO PORTRAY DEAN AS THE CANDIDATE WHO IS TAPPING INTO THAT ANGER VEIN AMONG DEMOCRATIC VOTERS, AND SO THEY'RE TRYING TO PORTRAY THEMSELVES AS THE ALTERNATIVE THAT IS NOT ANGRY BECAUSE IN A GENERAL ELECTION MATCHUP YOU CAN'T BE ANGRY WITH GEORGE BUSH.

Beck: AND ONCE AGAIN, HOWARD DEAN OUT-ORCHESTRATES ALL OF THEM IN THIS EVENT. YOU KNOW, HE SITS UP WITH HIS CROWD. HE COMES DOWN, THERE ARE LARGE BANNERS. HE HAS THE BUSLOADS OF PEOPLE. SOME 40 SOME BUSES PULL UP WITH HOWARD DEAN SUPPORTERS. NOT ALL OF THEM HAD SUPPORTERS IN THEM. SOME OF THEM WERE A LITTLE EMPTY.

Yepsen: NOT ALL OF THEM WERE FILLED.

Beck: EXACTLY. THAT'S EXACTLY TRUE. BUT STILL TO HAVE THOSE PASS YOU BY AS YOU'RE WAITING IN TRAFFIC, IT LOOKS SO GOOD.

Yepsen: IT TOOK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN GEPHARDT AND JOHN KERRY CAUCUS GOERS AS THEY SAT THERE FOR FORTY-FIVE MINUTES.

Beck: ALTHOUGH HE'S NOT -- HE IS TAPPING INTO THEIR ANGER, BUT HE'S ALSO OUT-ORCHESTRATING THEM AT EVERY TURN. AND THEY DON'T -- I MEAN THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE JOHN KERRY'S COMING OUT PARTY, AND WHAT I HEARD FROM PEOPLE IS HE DID WELL BUT HE DIDN'T STEP ANYTHING UP.

Borg: KAY, THERE'S A DEBATE, AS I NOTED, COMING UP ON MONDAY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT FORMAT TO THE JEFFERSON-JACKSON DAY DINNER, SO WE'LL SEE THE CANDIDATES DIFFERENTLY. ARE THESE DEBATE FORMATS, DO YOU THINK, MAKING ANY POINTS, OR ARE THERE TOO MANY CANDIDATES THERE AND ARE THERE TOO MANY DEBATES? ARE PEOPLE PAYING ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY SAY IN THE DEBATE FORMAT?

Henderson: WELL, THIS IS MY JOB TO COVER THINGS LIKE A DEBATE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HAVE A HARD TIME PAYING ATTENTION BECAUSE THEY REALLY AREN'T BREAKING A LOT OF NEW GROUND. THEY DON'T HAVE THE TIME. IT'S NOT A FORUM IN WHICH THEY CAN SHARE THEIR VIEWS IN A LONG-FORM FORMAT. AND SO PARTICULARLY THE AARP DEBATE THAT WAS HELD IN DES MOINES IN OCTOBER, THE CANDIDATES HAD ONE OR TWO MINUTES EACH TO SPEAK. AND YOU JUST CAN'T PUNCH THROUGH A MESSAGE WHEN YOU HAVE THAT LITTLE TIME AND YOU'RE COMPETING WITH SIX OR SEVEN OTHER PEOPLE ON THE STAGE.

Glover: THE ANSWER, DEAN, IS, NO, THE DEBATES HAVE NOT MADE ANY DIFFERENCE SO FAR. WE WON'T KNOW FOR A WHILE IF THEY WILL MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. A COUPLE OF OBJECTIVE FACTS ABOUT THE DEBATES. VIEWERSHIP OF THESE DEBATES IS ABYSMAL. EVEN IF YOU GO TO A DEBATE ON, LIKE, CNN OR SOME OF THE CABLE NETWORK CHANNELS, THE AUDIENCE FOR THOSE DEBATES IS EVEN BELOW THE TYPICAL AUDIENCE FOR THOSE SMALL CABLE CHANNELS. SO PEOPLE WHO -- JUNKIES WHO WATCH C-SPAN TURN OFF THESE DEBATES, IF THAT TELLS YOU ANYTHING.

Borg: DOES THAT FORMAT, THOUGH, FAVOR ANY ONE PARTICULAR CANDIDATE IN THIS FIELD?

Yepsen: IT FAVORS HOWARD DEAN. HOWARD DEAN IS THE FRONT-RUNNER IN THIS RACE, NOT CONCLUSIVELY SO BUT HE'S THE FRONT-RUNNER. AND EVERY TIME HE GOES ON A DEBATE AND COMES OUT UNSCATHED, COMES OUT WITH NOBODY TRIPPING HIM UP, HE'S REALLY THE WINNER. HE'S THE GUY WHO OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE TO OVERTAKE, AND THEY HAVE TO DO THAT WITH UNDECIDED CAUCUS GOERS. TWENTY PERCENT OF THE LIKELY DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS GOERS ARE UNDECIDED, AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO STAY THAT WAY THROUGH THE FIRST OF THE YEAR. I MEAN AFTER THIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN HAS GONE ON, IF YOU'RE A CAUCUS GOER AND YOU'RE STILL UNDECIDED, EITHER YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SHOW UP AT THE CAUCUSES OR MORE THAN LIKELY YOU'RE ALMOST A PROFESSIONAL UNDECIDED CAUCUS GOER. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND THIS TRACK A LONG TIME. THEY WANT TO WATCH THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN PLAY OUT. SO UNLESS THERE'S SOME BIG, GREAT MEMORABLE LINE OR SOME GAFFE, THESE DEBATES DON'T REALLY DO MUCH TO HOWARD DEAN.

Glover: THERE'S SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN DURING THIS ELECTION CYCLE. IT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST, AND I'VE BEEN A LITTLE SURPRISED BY IT. IN THE PAST WE'VE HAD LARGE FIELDS LIKE THIS. A COUPLE OF THE LEADING CANDIDATES HAVE FOUND A WAY TO GET TOGETHER. I REMEMBER IN THE 1988 CYCLE, DICK GEPHARDT AND MIKE DUKAKIS DECIDED THEY WOULD HOLD THEIR OWN DEBATES, JUST THE TWO OF THEM. AND WE PAID ATTENTION BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH FRONT-RUNNERS, AND THEY HAD THEIR DEBATES. AND JACK KEMP GOT DRAGGED INTO SOME OF THAT, AND WE PAID ATTENTION TO THAT. AND YOU COULD HAVE TWO PEOPLE WHO COULD ACTUALLY SPEND SOME TIME EXCHANGING VIEWS ON ISSUES. THAT HASN'T HAPPENED THIS TIME. AND DAVE IS RIGHT: YOU GET NINE PEOPLE ON THE STAGE, IT'S JUST A MISHMASH FOR IF HOWARD DEAN HAS TO LOSE OR HAS TO MAKE A GAFFE, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO.

Borg: WHY DO YOU THINK, MIKE, THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED? IS IT BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO CLOSELY BUNCHED AT THE TOP?

Glover: YEAH, I THINK IT IS. THE FIELD IS TOO CLOSELY TIED TO EACH OTHER. NOBODY IS OUT AHEAD. HOWARD DEAN WE ALL THINK IS A FRONT-RUNNER, BUT HE'S NOT A MILE AHEAD. SO EVERYBODY IS RISK AVERSE. AND THAT SAID, IF ANYTHING DESCRIBES THIS FIELD TO ME, IT'S THAT TERM, "RISK AVERSE." NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE A CHANCE. NOBODY WANTS TO THROW THE HIGH HARD ONE. NOBODY WANTS TO THROW THE HAIL MARY. THEY ALL DON'T WANT TO SCREW UP.

Borg: JENEANE, JUST FLIP THE COIN. I SAID DOES THE DEBATE FORMAT FAVOR ANYONE -- AND MAYBE THE GENERAL CONSENSUS HERE IS THAT HOWARD DEAN DOES WELL IN THE DEBATE FORMAT -- BUT DOES ANYONE SUFFER IN THAT KIND OF FORMAT IN GETTING THEIR MESSAGE ACROSS THAT YOU THINK?

Beck: I DON'T KNOW IF A PARTICULAR CANDIDATE SUFFERS IN GETTING THEIR MESSAGE ACROSS. WHAT I TEND TO HEAR OUT OF THE DEBATES IS A LOT OF THE TALK IS ABOUT WHO PARTICIPATED AND WHO DIDN'T: WHY ISN'T JOSEPH LIEBERMAN PARTICIPATING IN CERTAIN DEBATES; WHY ISN'T WESLEY CLARK PARTICIPATING IN CERTAIN DEBATES? AND I THINK TALK CONTINUES ABOUT THAT. I HAD SUPPORTERS OF THOSE CANDIDATES, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE NOT RUNNING IN IOWA, SAY THEY WERE SURPRISED THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP AT J-J'S BECAUSE THAT WAS AN EVENT THAT HAD NATIONAL MEDIA ATTENTION. SO EVEN IF YOU AREN'T RUNNING IN IOWA, WHY DIDN'T YOU COME TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT? SO I THINK THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT WHY AREN'T THEY PARTICIPATING AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEIR CANDIDACY.

Yepsen: DEAN, WE'RE IN THE MEDIA SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEDIA EVENTS, THE J-J DEBATES. WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT IN THIS RACE ARE THINGS LIKE THE GROUND ATTACK THAT THE CANDIDATES HAVE IN TERMS OF FINDING SUPPORTERS AND GETTING THEM OUT TO CAUCUSES, THE ENDORSEMENTS OF LABOR UNIONS. THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT. THEY TEND TO GET OVERLOOKED SOMETIMES BECAUSE IT'S NOT VERY SHOWY, BUT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

Beck: THAT'S WHAT GEPHARDT DID SATURDAY. HE DIDN'T SPEND MUCH TIME TRYING TO GET SUPPORTERS AT J-J'S. INSTEAD HE SPENT TIME DOOR KNOCKING EARLIER IN THE DAY.

Glover: THERE'S AN EVENT THIS WEEKEND THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS TELLING HOW THIS THING IS GOING TO COME OUT. HOWARD DEAN IS GOING TO BE IN THE STATE. HE'S GOING TO BE HAVING A RALLY WITH THE PRESIDENT OF AFSCME, THE PUBLIC WORKER EMPLOYEE UNION. THE LARGE UNION IN IOWA. THEY'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THEIR TURNOUT EFFORT. THAT WHOLE EFFORT, HOWARD DEAN AND THE COUPLE OF UNIONS HE'S GOT BEHIND HIM AND DICK GEPHARDT AND THE WHOLE BUNCH OF UNION HE'S GOT BEHIND HIM, HOW THAT GROUND GAME PLAYS AGAINST EACH OTHER WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS DECIDING WHO WINS THESE CAUCUSES.

Borg: AND AFSCME IS THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF STATE, COUNTY, AND MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES.

Glover: IT REPRESENTS STATE WORKERS AND A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IN THE STATE.

Borg: AND THAT'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT ENDORSEMENT.

Glover: THAT'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE THAT IS NOT ONLY A LARGE UNION, IT IS A POLITICALLY ACTIVE UNION. IT'S A UNION WITH A TRADITION OF BEING INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

Borg: THEY CAN GET THINGS DONE.

Glover: THEY -- ONE OF THE BEST LINES I'VE HEARD ABOUT AFSCME WAS AN ACTIVIST NAMED JOE SHANOHAN WHO SAID AFSCME IS THE PIZZA HUT OF IOWA POLITICS, "THEY DELIVER."

Yepsen: THE UNION ENDORSEMENTS ARE IMPORTANT. I THINK THE AFSCME ENDORSEMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE REASONS WE'VE MENTIONED. THEY'RE SOPHISTICATED ACTIVISTS BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS HERE HAS ENDORSED DICK GEPHARDT. THAT'S ANOTHER VERY POLITICALLY SOPHISTICATED UNION. SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF BUZZ ABOUT HOWARD DEAN'S ENDORSEMENTS. I THINK HE'S GOT ENDORSEMENTS FROM UNIONS REPRESENTING MAYBE 30,000 PEOPLE IN THE STATE. DICK GEPHARDT HAS GOTTEN ENDORSEMENTS FROM UNIONS REPRESENTING ALMOST 200,000.

Borg: KAY, THIS BRINGS UP THE DEAN-GEPHARDT RACE HERE IN IOWA AND WHO'S AHEAD. IS IT JUST TOO CLOSE TO CALL AT THIS POINT?

Henderson: I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, YOU'LL SEE THAT THEY'RE WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR. WE CONSIDER DEAN THE FRONT-RUNNER, BUT YOU COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT IN IOWA -- I MEAN YOU CONSIDER GEPHARDT THE FRONT-RUNNER, RATHER, BUT YOU COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT DEAN IS WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR. THE ONE THING THAT STRIKES ME ABOUT THIS GEPHARDT CANDIDACY IS IT'S A LOT LIKE BOB DOLE IN 1996. IF HE HASN'T CLOSED THE SALE YET, I THINK HE MAY NOT CLOSE THE SALE. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO BOB DOLE. HE HAD A LARGE GROUP OF UNDECIDED VOTERS WHO, IN THE TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE CAUCUSES, BROKE AND SUPPORTED OTHER CANDIDATES, NAMELY LAMAR ALEXANDER DID REALLY WELL WITH UNDECIDED VOTERS WHO HADN'T -- TEN DAYS OUT, HADN'T PICKED A CANDIDATE. SO I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BREAK FOR GEPHARDT HERE IS HE'S GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE HE'S IDENTIFIED GO TO THE CAUCUSES BECAUSE I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO GET VERY MANY OF THOSE UNDECIDED VOTERS.

Borg: PUBLICLY -- GO AHEAD.

Beck: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THE QUESTION FOR ME IS ALSO BEYOND THE IOWA CAUCUSES. WE'RE HERE FOCUSED ON THE IOWA CAUCUSES. THESE CANDIDATES HAVE TO FOCUS BEYOND THAT. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT DICK GEPHARDT'S STRATEGY IS AFTER HE -- EVEN IF HE WINS IOWA BUT HE DOESN'T WIN IT BY MUCH, LET'S SAY, WHERE DOES HE GO AFTER THAT, BECAUSE HE'S NOT GOING TO WIN NEW HAMPSHIRE? SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN, I GUESS?

Yepsen: HE GOES SOUTH AND HE GOES INTO THE INDUSTRIAL STATES. THIS THING IN IOWA IS IMPORTANT ONLY BECAUSE OF THOSE OTHER STATES. THE ONLY REASON YOU WIN IOWA IS BECAUSE IT HELPS YOU IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. EVERYBODY HAS GOT A LOT AT STAKE HERE. WE'RE GOING TO SEE A HUGE AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY COME JANUARY 1. GEPHARDT HAS TO WIN IOWA. DEAN HAS A CHANCE TO KNOCK DICK GEPHARDT OUT OF THE RACE, WHICH WOULD ADD TO DEAN'S MARGIN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE OVER JOHN KERRY. KERRY IS ONLY FIVE POINTS BEHIND DEAN IN IOWA. THAT'S WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF DEAN FOR SECOND PLACE. AND JOHN EDWARDS IS NOT OUT OF THIS FIGHT YET. SO THERE IS JUST A LOT OF STILL UNDECIDED AND AT STAKE IN THESE IOWA CAUCUSES.

Borg: MIKE, PART OF THE MIX IS HOWARD DEAN GOING NEGATIVE. NOW, GEPHARDT HAS BEEN NEGATIVE AGAINST DEAN FOR SOME TIME, AND FOR GOOD REASON.

Glover: WELL, THERE -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN OLD SAYING IN POLITICS THAT YOU SCREAM LOUDEST WHEN IT HURTS. AND DICK GEPHARDT HAS MADE SOME PROGRESS AGAINST HOWARD DEAN. DEAN WAS A HIGH FLYER FOR A WHILE. DICK GEPHARDT HAS REINED HIM IN A LITTLE BIT, SO NOW DEAN IS STRIKING BACK. DICK GEPHARDT HAS BEEN KICKING THE HECK OUT OF -- OR DICK GEPHARDT HAS BEEN KICKING THE HECK OUT OF HOWARD DEAN FOR A LONG TIME. HE'S MADE SOME PROGRESS. POLLS HAVE SHOWN HE'S GONE UP A LITTLE BIT, SO NOW DEAN IS STRIKING BACK. HE'S WHACKING HIM. THESE TWO CANDIDATES -- I HAVE A STORY I TELL ABOUT I GOT A PHONE CALL FROM THE GEPHARDT CAMPAIGN ONE AFTERNOON THAT SAID, "WE'VE GOT THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE IOWA UAW. DO YOU WANT TO TALK TO DICK ABOUT IT?" "NO, I DON'T NEED TO TALK TO DICK ABOUT THAT. JUST SEND ME THE HANDOUT." WITHIN THIRTY SECONDS GEPHARDT'S NATIONAL CAMPAIGN MANAGER WAS ON THE PHONE SCREAMING AT ME THAT APPARENTLY I WASN'T GOING TO WRITE ABOUT DICK GEPHARDT AND THE UAW ENDORSEMENT. THAT'S THE LEVEL OF INTENSITY OF THOSE TWO CAMPAIGNS BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH AT STAKE. DAVE IS RIGHT: IF DICK GEPHARDT LOSES THE IOWA CAUCUSES, HE'S ON HIS WAY BACK TO ST. LOUIS. IF HOWARD DEAN MANAGES TO WIN THESE IOWA CAUCUSES, HE'S ON HIS WAY TO NEW HAMPSHIRE WITH A LOT OF MOMENTUM AND LIKELY TO WIN THERE. THE GEPHARDT PEOPLE ARGUE THAT IF DEAN GETS PAST GEPHARDT IN IOWA, HE IS IN ALL PROBABILITY THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

Yepsen: ONE THING -- TALKING ABOUT THESE POLLS, WE NOTICED IN OUR POLL, IN THE IOWA POLL, THE MAIN NUMBER: 27 GEPHARDT, 20 DEAN. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE CAUCUS GOERS WHO ARE MOST COMMITTED, MOST LIKELY TO SHOW UP, THEY'RE HOWARD DEAN PEOPLE. IT IS ALMOST A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE PAT ROBERTSON PHENOMENON IN 1988, WHERE PAT ROBERTSON BROUGHT IN A LOT OF EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO DO WELL. HOWARD DEAN IS BRINGING A LOT OF LIBERALS, A LOT OF ACTIVISTS, A LOT OF ANTIWAR PEOPLE INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T SHOW UP ON SOME OF THESE POLLS. BUT IT IS A LEVEL OF INTENSITY THAT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE.

Henderson: AND IT IS FOR THEM THAT I THINK DEAN IS RUNNING THOSE NEGATIVE ADS AGAINST GEPHARDT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU RAISE NEGATIVES ABOUT ANOTHER CANDIDATE, YOU ARE MERELY SOLIDIFYING YOUR BASE. THOSE DEAN PEOPLE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. GEPHARDT HAS RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT THINGS THAT GOVERNOR DEAN DID WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR OF VERMONT. AND ONE REASON YOU RUN THOSE ADS IS THAT YOU REBUFF THAT OFFENSIVE.

Glover: ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES YOU'RE GOING TO RUN INTO AS WE GET INTO THE CLOSING DAYS OF THIS CAMPAIGN -- EVERY POLL I'VE SEEN HAS SHOWN ME THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKELY TO SHOW UP AT A DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS ON JANUARY 19 ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE WAR IN IRAQ, AND THEY DON'T LIKE IT VERY MUCH. SO ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS THAT JOHN KERRY AND JOHN EDWARDS AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE MAKING GAINS IN THE CLOSING DAYS OF THIS CAMPAIGN IS THEY VOTED WRONG ON THE WAR IN THE EYES OF A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO SHOW UP AT THE CAUCUSES.

Yepsen: BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT A DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS GOER SAYS FACES THE COUNTRY OVERWHELMINGLY IS JOBS AND THE ECONOMY. SO THE STRATEGY OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES, PARTICULARLY GEPHARDT, IS TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, HOWARD DEAN HAS GOT TO ANTIWAR ACTIVISTS. THERE'S NO WAY I CAN GET THEM. I'M GOING AFTER THOSE PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT JOBS. ONE OTHER THOUGHT OF OBSERVATION ABOUT DEAN'S GOING ON THE ATTACK. I THINK IT'S DUBBED AS SORT OF THE DOWN SIDE OF HOWARD DEAN HAVING A LOT OF MONEY NOW. HE WAS REALLY A GOOD CANDIDATE WHEN HE WAS DIFFERENT, HE WAS FRESH, HE WAS NOVEL, HE WAS CANDID. AND NOW THAT HE'S GOT ALL THIS MONEY THAT HE'S RAISED ON THE INTERNET, HE'S JUST ACTING LIKE ANOTHER OLD POLITICIAN RUNNING ATTACK ADS ON AN OPPONENT. THERE'S NOT MUCH NEW AND DIFFERENT ABOUT THAT.

Borg: AND REJECTING MATCHING FUNDS.

Yepsen: SURE, BECAUSE HE CAN NOW SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. IT'S GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF TELEVISION STATIONS IN IOWA A LOT OF MONEY.

Borg: JENEANE, I CUT YOU OFF JUST A MOMENT AGO. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD?

Beck: NO.

Borg: OKAY. I WANTED TO GO TO THE BUSH ADVERTISING THAT'S STARTING. NOW, PRESIDENT BUSH HAS BEEN TAKING A LOT OF KICKING AROUND FOR MANY, MANY WEEKS AND MONTHS HERE, AND NOW WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE A LITTLE BIT OF THE BUSH CAMPAIGN.

Beck: THAT'S RIGHT. HE'S GOING TO START TO RAMP THINGS UP A LITTLE BIT AND START RUNNING ADVERTISEMENTS AND HAVING SOME OF THE NATIONAL STAFF TRAVEL AND SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF. YOU MENTIONED THE POLL THAT SHOWS THAT THE ECONOMY IS THE DECIDING FACTOR FOR MANY DEMOCRATS. THERE ARE ALSO SURVEYS THAT -- OR STUDIES THAT ARE SHOWING THE ECONOMY IS STARTING TO TURN AROUND. THERE'S SOME UP TICKS IN JOBS. THERE'S SOME UP TICKS IN MANUFACTURING AND THAT KIND OF THING. IF THAT HAPPENS, HE'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, BREATHING A LITTLE BIT OF A SIGH OF RELIEF. AND THEN THE BIG NEGATIVE CONTINUES TO BE THE WAR FOR HIM. HERE HE'S IN BRITAIN AND THERE ARE BOMBINGS OF THE BRITISH CONSULATE. SO THERE'S A GOOD AND BAD FOR HIM.

Yepsen: IT'S INTERESTING, DEAN, I THINK BOTH IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE AS GENERAL ELECTION STATES ARE IN PLAY. WE ARE SMALL STATES. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES US ATYPICAL IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTION IS THAT EACH STATE HAS HAD THOUSANDS OF RATINGS POINTS OF TELEVISION, ONE OF WHICH WAS DUMPED ON THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOCRATIC ADS, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY'RE ALMOST ALL ATTACKING BUSH. BUSH HAS TO RESPOND TO THIS. BUSH HAS A CHANCE OF WINNING IOWA. HE ALMOST CARRIED IT LAST TIME. HE NARROWLY CARRIED NEW HAMPSHIRE. AND AS WE'VE ALL SEEN, A FEW ELECTORAL VOTES HERE AND THERE ARE IMPORTANT. SO I THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE WISE HERE TO NOT JUST LET THE DEMOCRATS SPEND A YEAR AND A HALF AHEAD OF THE NOVEMBER ELECTION TRASHING BUSH WITHOUT RESPONDING.

Borg: DOES IT CARRY SOME POLITICAL RISK, THOUGH, MIKE, IF HE'S HURTING AND IS MOST VULNERABLE ON THE IRAQ POLICY? SOMETHING CAN CHANGE THERE VERY RAPIDLY. AND SOMETHING BUSH SAYS NOW, HE MAY WISH TO RETRACT, DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

Glover: WE'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF CHANGES ALONG THE WAY.

Borg: THERE'S A TWINKLE IN YOUR EYE.

Glover: SOMETIMES THINGS DON'T WORK OUT JUST THE WAY WE THOUGHT THEY WOULD. BUT DAVE IS RIGHT: THE LAST ELECTION TAUGHT US THAT EVERY ELECTORAL VOTE IS WORTH FIGHTING ABOUT. AND IOWA HAS SEVEN ELECTORAL VOTES AND, BY GOLLY, THEY'RE WORTH FIGHTING ABOUT, AND HE'S GOING TO BE FIGHTING ABOUT THEM. AND HIS STRATEGY HEADING INTO THIS CAMPAIGN WAS TO CONTEST STATES WHERE HE NARROWLY LOST OR NARROWLY WON IN THE LAST ELECTION AND TRY TO PUT THOSE IN PLAY. LET'S FACE IT, CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK PROBABLY WON'T BE IN PLAY BY THE END OF OCTOBER. THEY'LL PROBABLY BE DEMOCRATIC. MOST OF THE SOUTH PROBABLY WON'T BE IN PLAY BY LATE OCTOBER. IT WILL BE REPUBLICAN. IT'S THE INDUSTRIAL MIDWEST WHERE THIS ELECTION IS GOING TO BE SETTLED, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STATES THERE, FROM PENNSYLVANIA THROUGH WISCONSIN, WHICH ARE JUST VERY CLOSELY HARD-FOUGHT STATES. AND HE'S GOING TO FIGHT IN EVERY ONE OF THEM INCLUDING IOWA, AND HE'S GOT A DOWN SIDE IN IOWA BECAUSE HE'S BEEN A TARGET HERE FOR A YEAR.

Borg: AND SO IT APPEARS THAT WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO SEE A LOT OF PRESIDENT BUSH IN THE MIDWEST --

Yepsen: OH, YEAH, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

Borg: -- IN 2004.

Glover: ONE OF DICK GEPHARDT'S CORE ARGUMENTS IS WHAT I JUST SAID, THAT BY THE TIME LATE OCTOBER OF 2004 HAPPENS, THE EAST COAST AND THE WEST COAST LARGELY WON'T BE IN PLAY. IT WILL BE DEMOCRATIC UNLESS THE DEMOCRATS NOMINATE SOME MAN FROM MARS. THE SOUTH LIKELY WON'T BE IN PLAY UNLESS BUSH DECIDES TO RESIGN AND REPUBLICANS NOMINATE SOMEBODY FROM MARS; IT WILL BE REPUBLIC. THE ELECTION WILL LIKELY BE SETTLED IN THAT INDUSTRIAL MIDWEST, WHICH IS VERY COMPETITIVE.

Borg: YOU SAID A WHILE AGO THAT JOHN KERRY CHANGED SOME OF HIS ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE WITHIN THE CAMPAIGN, DAVE. HAS THAT SHOWN ANY EFFECTIVENESS, ANY CHANGE IN THAT KERRY CAMPAIGN? AND WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO HAVE OUT OF IOWA?

Yepsen: HE'S GOT TO STOP HOWARD DEAN FROM WINNING IOWA. WHETHER KERRY HIMSELF WINS OR NOT, THE FIRST -- JOB ONE FOR EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE, ESPECIALLY JOHN KERRY, IS TO SLOW HOWARD DEAN DOWN.

Borg: HE'D SURE LIKE TO SEE GEPHARDT WIN.

Yepsen: THAT WOULD BE FINE WITH JOHN KERRY BECAUSE IT WOULD AT LEAST ALLOW KERRY TO STAY ALIVE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. KERRY DID CHANGE HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER. THERE WAS SOME BIG INSIDER BUZZ ABOUT HE'S GETTING RID OF HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HAD SOME STAFFERS QUIT. I THINK ON BALANCE THAT WAS A GOOD THING FOR JOHN KERRY TO DO. CAMPAIGNS THAT CHANGE MANAGEMENT, IT LOOKS BAD, BUT IT'S A SIGN TOO THAT THE CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN TAKING THE STEPS NECESSARY TO CORRECT ITS PROBLEMS. I TELL PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A BIG DITHER ABOUT THIS KERRY BUSINESS THAT TOM VILSACK WENT THROUGH FOUR CAMPAIGN MANAGERS IN 1998 BEFORE HE FINALLY FOUND ONE, JOHN CACCIATORE, WHO PUT HIM ACROSS THE LINE. SO IT'S A GOOD THING THAT JOHN KERRY IS CHANGING HIS MANAGEMENT TEAM IF HE HASN'T BEEN WORKING.

Glover: AND HE ALSO -- HE'S ADOPTED KIND OF A DIFFERENT STRATEGY, A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO THE CAMPAIGN, WHICH IS A MORE TROUBLING THING, BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE CHANGING YOUR APPROACH TO A CAMPAIGN TWO MONTHS BEFORE VOTERS START TO HAVE THEIR SAY, THAT'S A LITTLE TROUBLESOME. THE KERRY CAMPAIGN UP TILL NOW HAS ALL BEEN BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WOULD TRY TO LIVE IN IOWA TO SURVIVE -- THIRD, FOURTH, WHATEVER HE GETS HERE -- AND THEN MAKE HIS STAND IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. I THINK THE KERRY CAMPAIGN HAS NOW CONCLUDED THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. HE HAS TO DO SOMETHING IN IOWA, SO HE'S SHIFTING A LOT OF RESOURCES TO IOWA IN AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO GET PAST HOWARD DEAN IN IOWA TO GIVE HIM SOME MOMENTUM --

Borg: AND COULD THAT BE A LIABILITY IF HE'S NOT SPENDING TIME IN THOSE OTHER STATES THAT ARE GOING TO COME ON VERY, VERY QUICKLY?

Glover: LET'S JUST PUT IT THIS WAY: IN 1999 AND 2000 BILL BRADLEY THOUGHT HE HAD A CHANCE TO WIN IOWA, SO HE GAVE UP ESSENTIALLY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND, THROUGHOUT THE FALL OF THAT YEAR, LOST IOWA BIG. IT WAS NEVER HERE FOR HIM TO WIN, AND THEN LOST NEW HAMPSHIRE BY ABOUT THAT MUCH.

Borg: LET'S TALK ABOUT JOHN EDWARDS JUST IN OUR CONCLUDING MINUTE HERE. JOHN EDWARDS -- WHAT DO YOU THINK HE HAS TO HAVE OUT OF IOWA? IF HE FINISHES FOURTH, IS HE STILL ALL RIGHT?

Beck: I THINK THAT HE WILL CONTINUE IN THE RACE IF HE FINISHES FOURTH, BUT IF HE WANTS TO BE MORE VIABLE, HE NEEDS TO TRY TO BUMP OFF THE THIRD PLACE FINISHER, WHETHER THAT BE JOHN KERRY, HOWARD DEAN, DICK GEPHARDT. AND I THINK THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED IN WATCHING WHAT JOHN KERRY DOES. AND THEY SEE THAT JOHN KERRY'S CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN FLAT. AND JOHN EDWARDS HAS BEEN KIND OF FLAT, BUT THEY'RE STARTING TO THINK NOW IS THE TIME THAT ONE OF US IS GOING TO EMERGE AND THEY WANT IT TO BE THEM. AND SO THAT'S WHY HE TRIED VERY HARD TO DO WELL AT J-J'S AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS DID.

Borg: QUICK COMMENT.

Glover: PEOPLE FORGET HOW INTENSE THIS GETS AND HOW QUICKLY AND HOW FEW PEOPLE WE ALL COLLECTIVELY IN THE MEDIA WILL PAY ATTENTION TO. AFTER NEW HAMPSHIRE, IF YOU HAVEN'T WON SOMEWHERE, FORGET IT. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE AROUND. NOBODY IS GOING TO BE PAYING ANY ATTENTION TO YOU.

Borg: THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHTS. I'M SURE WE'LL BE BACK TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING AND UPDATING IT. IN FACT, WE'LL BE TRACKING THESE ISSUES ON A WEEKLY BASIS. THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEKEND'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH NEXT WEEK, SAME TIMES: 7:30 FRIDAY, SUNDAY AT NOON. UNTIL THEN, I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION; AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.