Iowa Public Television

IOWA PRESS #3115 >>

Yepsen: WITH THE OPENING OF THE IOWA LEGISLATIVE SESSION OF 2004 NOW JUST ONE MONTH AWAY, THE TROUBLED STATE BUDGET IS AGAIN FRONT AND CENTER. WE'LL GET PERSPECTIVE FROM IOWA'S LEGISLATIVE BRANCH WITH SENATOR LARRY MCKIBBEN, A REPUBLICAN FROM MARSHALLTOWN, AND WITH SENATOR MIKE GRONSTAL, A DEMOCRAT FROM COUNCIL BLUFFS, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION;

AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, DECEMBER 12 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen: THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION OF 2004, THE SECOND SESSION OF THE 80TH IOWA GENERAL ASSEMBLY, GETS UNDERWAY ON MONDAY, JANUARY 12, AND ONCE AGAIN A BUDGET CRISIS WILL SHADOW THE PROCEEDINGS. AS IT'S BEEN IN THE PAST, IT'S A MATTER OF MATCHING UP STATE REVENUES WITH STATE BUDGET OUTLAYS. AND FOR THE PAST THREE BUDGET CYCLES, THAT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT TASK TO ACCOMPLISH. THE FACT THAT THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE AND THE DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED EXECUTIVE BRANCH DON'T SEE EYE TO EYE ON THE ROOT CAUSES NOR ON THE SOLUTIONS AT HAND ONLY MAKES THE PROBLEMS WORSE. WELL, JOINING US TO HELP SORT THROUGH THE FISCAL MAZE ARE SENATOR LARRY MCKIBBEN, A REPUBLICAN FROM MARSHALLTOWN WHO IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE -- THEY WRITE THE TAX BILLS -- AND SENATOR MIKE GRONSTAL, A DEMOCRAT FROM COUNCIL BLUFFS WHO SERVES AS THE MINORITY LEADER IN THE IOWA SENATE. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK. GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US AGAIN.

McKibben: GLAD TO BE HERE.

Gronstal: PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

Yepsen: ALSO WITH US AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE ARE JENEANE BECK, LEGISLATIVE AND POLITICAL REPORTER, WITH KUNI PUBLIC RADIO AND KAY HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR WITH RADIO IOWA.

Henderson: GENTLEMEN, LET'S DO A REALITY CHECK. WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE STATE BUDGET, SENATOR MCKIBBEN?

McKibben: WELL, AS I UNDERSTAND FROM THE LATEST NUMBERS, WE DO NOT EXPECT ANY NEW DOLLARS TO BUDGET NEXT YEAR, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A RELATIVELY FLAT BUDGET FOR THE FISCAL '05 YEAR.

Henderson: SENATOR GRONSTAL?

Gronstal: WE'RE ABOUT $336 MILLION SHORT OF WHERE OUR CURRENT COMMITMENTS STAND IN TERMS OF K-12 EDUCATION AND THINGS LIKE FULLY FUNDING PROPERTY TAX CREDITS.

Henderson: DAVID JUST USED WORDS LIKE CRISIS AND DIRE. ARE THOSE TRULY INDICATIVE OF WHERE THE STATE IS AT THIS JUNCTURE, SENATOR MCKIBBEN?

McKibben: WELL, ABOUT A WEEK AGO, KAY, I WAS AT IOWA FALLS FOR A LISTENING POST. THE SAME DAY I WENT TO IOWA FALLS FOR THE LISTENING POST, THERE WAS A PICTURE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF "THE REGISTER" OF A FLAG-DRAPED CASKET BURYING ONE OF OUR CITIZENS, WITH A WIFE AND A YOUNG DAUGHTER STANDING BY THE CASKET. AND I LED INTO THAT SESSION -- I HAD A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE. I SAID, "YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TOUGH TIMES AND TOUGH BUDGET ISSUES IN THIS STATE, AND THIS MORNING I GET UP AND READ ABOUT BURYING ANOTHER ONE OF OURS. WE ARE AT WAR. TIMES ARE DIFFICULT. OUR BROTHERS, SISTERS, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS ARE IN IRAQ GOING THROUGH A TERRIBLE TIME." THESE ARE DIFFICULT BUDGET TIMES. WE HAVE CERTAINLY, SINCE 9/11 AND THE RECESSION, HAD SOME REAL TOUGH BUDGETS, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN IN MY FIRST FOUR YEARS IN THE LEGISLATURE. BUT I AM SOBERED BY THE FACT THAT EVERY TIME I THINK THINGS ARE REALLY HARD AND I CAN'T GET THROUGH THIS, LET'S THINK ABOUT WHAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT, AND THAT'S THE FAMILIES THAT HAVE SOLDIERS AND THE SOLDIERS THAT ARE IN IRAQ FIGHTING FOR OUR FREEDOM. SO WE'LL DO IT. IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH, BUT WE'LL ACCOMPLISH IT.

Henderson: WHAT SORT OF ASSESSMENT DO YOU MAKE IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH OF A CRISIS THIS IS?

Gronstal: WELL, I THINK THAT -- I'D AGREE WITH SENATOR MCKIBBEN THAT THESE ARE DIFFICULT TIMES AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME TOUGH CHOICES TO MAKE NEXT YEAR. IN ADDITION TO -- IN ADDITION TO THE REALITIES OF THE WAR, WE HAVE A CRISIS WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION. WE'RE LAYING OFF TEACHERS ACROSS THE STATE OF IOWA. WE'RE REDUCING PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. WE'RE RAISING PEOPLE'S PROPERTY TAXES BY UNDERFUNDING THE CREDITS. AND SO I DO THINK THERE ARE DIFFICULT TIMES AHEAD OF US. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THESE BUDGET NUMBERS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF MAYBE AN 8-PERCENT ACROSS-THE-BOARD CUT. THAT'S ABOUT 1/12. WELL, CONCEPTUALLY, IT'S AS IF WE'RE GOING TO CANCEL KINDERGARTEN NEXT YEAR, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE KINDERGARTEN FOR KIDS, ONE OUT OF -- ONE OUT OF THE THIRTEEN GRADES. THAT'S THE KIND OF CUTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND I THINK WE'RE SACRIFICING QUALITY IN OUR K-12 EDUCATION, AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST BASIC VALUES IOWA HOLDS. AND I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO CUT THAT. I ALSO THINK IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE TO HAVE THE HIGHEST COMMUNITY COLLEGE TUITIONS IN THE COUNTRY. AND AT OUR REGENTS INSTITUTIONS, WE'VE RAISED TUITIONS OVER 60 PERCENT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. WE'RE PRICING KIDS OUT OF THE MARKET OF GETTING HIGHER EDUCATION.

Beck: THAT BEING SAID, SENATOR, IS THIS THE TIME, THEN, TO RAISE TAXES TO FIX THAT PROBLEM?

Gronstal: I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO -- WE NEED TO LOOK AT RAISING TAXES, BUT I THINK WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT AND WE'VE GOT TO MAINTAIN OUR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION AND TO HEALTH CARE AND PUBLIC SAFETY IN THIS STATE. AND THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN DEVASTATED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND WE'VE GOT TO FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT EDUCATION -- EDUCATION IS A BASIC IOWA VALUE, AND WE'RE ABANDONING THAT. AND WE'RE GOING TO LOSE A GENERATION OF KIDS IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL.

Beck: IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT? WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING, IF NOT TO EDUCATION? ARE THERE SOME OTHER UNTAPPED RESOURCES THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT?

McKibben: WELL, JENEANE, AS YOU KNOW, OVER 60 PERCENT OF EVERY DOLLAR THAT WE SPEND AT THE STATE LEVEL IS SPENT ON SOME FORM OF EDUCATION. IT IS OUR HIGHEST BUDGET PRIORITY. IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF WHATEVER DOLLARS THAT WE HAVE TO SPEND, THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE SPENT TO EDUCATION. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WHEN SENATOR GRONSTAL SAYS HE'S NOT GOING TO INCREASE TAXES AND I HEAR THE GOVERNOR SAYING, WELL, EVERYTHING OUGHT TO BE ON THE TABLE, THERE'S A LITTLE DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE LEGISLATIVE DEMOCRATS AND THEIR GOVERNOR, BUT YET THE GOVERNOR WON'T LEAD AND SAY WHAT TAXES HE PROPOSES TO RAISE. HE SIMPLY SAYS THAT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE ON THE TABLE. I THINK THE LISTENERS NEED TO KNOW THAT I THINK THE DEMOCRATS AND THE GOVERNOR IN FACT ARE GOING TO ASK IOWANS TO PAY MORE IN TAX.

Yepsen: IS THAT TRUE, SENATOR?

Gronstal: I BELIEVE THAT'S ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK THE SMARTEST THING TO DO RIGHT NOW WOULD BE FOR US TO ASK THE REPUBLICANS TO DROP A LAWSUIT THAT, IF THEY SUCCEED IN THEIR LAWSUIT, DOUBLES THE PROBLEM. IT'S ANOTHER $310-MILLION CUT IN STATE REVENUES IF THE REPUBLICANS SUCCEED IN THEIR LAWSUIT. WE OUGHT TO SET THAT LAWSUIT -- NOW YOU'RE TALKING NOT ABOUT AN 8-PERCENT ACROSS-THE-BOARD CUT IN EVERYTHING IN STATE GOVERNMENT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A 15-PERCENT CUT.

Yepsen: SENATOR GRONSTAL, WHAT ABOUT WHAT SENATOR MCKIBBEN JUST SAID, THAT THE GOVERNOR IS OUT THERE MAKING NOISES ABOUT RAISING TAXES AND SAYING EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE, IT'S AN OPTION HE'S LOOKING AT? YOU'RE SITTING HERE SAYING NO. IS THERE A DISCONNECT BETWEEN LEGISLATIVE DEMOCRATS AND THE GOVERNOR?

Gronstal: THE DEMOCRATS --

Yepsen: I MEAN IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

Gronstal: OBVIOUSLY IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE WHERE YOU GET A DISCONNECT. WE DID NOT AGREE WITH THE APPROACH LAST SESSION OF BALANCING OUR BUDGET ON THE BACKS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. WE REJECTED THAT APPROACH LAST SESSION. WE OFTEN DISAGREE WITH OUR GOVERNOR, BUT WE DO AGREE WITH OUR GOVERNOR THAT WE'VE GOT TO MAINTAIN OUR COMMITMENT TO EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, AND PUBLIC SAFETY IN THIS STATE.

Beck: IF THE GOVERNOR IS NOT GOING TO SUGGEST WHICH TAXES TO INCREASE, THOUGH HE'S HINTING THAT MIGHT BE A POSSIBILITY, THERE ARE OTHER GROUPS, LIKE THE IOWA CHAMBER ALLIANCE, WHO ARE SAYING A CIGARETTE TAX INCREASE MIGHT HELP FUND THE IOWA VALUES FUND OR OTHER KEY PROJECTS. WHAT ABOUT A CIGARETTE TAX INCREASE?

McKibben: WELL, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, JENEANE, I AM NOT WILLING TO CONSIDER TAX INCREASES. EVERY TIME WE INCREASE TAXES IN THE STATE OF IOWA, WE CAUSE PEOPLE JOBS. AND WHEN YOU'RE IN A FRAGILE ECONOMY, YOU'RE IN A WARTIME ECONOMY, AND I THINK ONE THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE RECESSION -- THE DOW YESTERDAY WENT OVER 10,000. WE SEE JOBLESSNESS DECREASING. THOSE ARE ALL GOOD NUMBERS BUT WHAT YOU DON'T DO IS STEP IN AND TAKE MORE MONEY OUT OF PEOPLE'S POCKETS AT A TIME THAT YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE SPENDING AND YOU WANT TO GROW THE ECONOMY. WE TALKED ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO TAKE MORE TAXES. RIGHT NOW WE'RE A HIGH TAX STATE. WE HAVE TRIED TO MAKE A LOWER AND FLATTER TAX AND REDUCE TAXES ON IOWANS. THE BIG SUCKING SOUND IOWANS HEAR ARE ALL THE RETIREES, THE MINUTE THEY HIT 62 AND 65, GOING TO NEVADA, GOING TO TEXAS, GOING TO FLORIDA, GOING TO SOUTH DAKOTA, CHANGING THEIR RESIDENCY AT A TIME WE NEED TO GROW THE ECONOMY. ONE OTHER ONE: I HEAR AND I ASKED MIKE RALSTON, THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, WOULD WE SEE THE ADDITIONAL TAX REQUESTS ON CORPORATION INCOME TAXES BEING PROPOSED. HE SAID THE DEPARTMENT WON'T BUT HE DID NOT SAY THE GOVERNOR WOULDN'T DO THAT. AND I AM TOLD BY MANY COMPANIES THAT IF WE CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION OF INCREASING CORPORATE TAX IN THE STATE, THESE COMPANIES AREN'T GOING TO LOOK AT GROWTH. 3M WAS ONE THAT APPROACHED ME THE OTHER DAY AND SAID, "YOU KNOW, OUR PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO INCREASE THE PLANT SIZE IN KNOXVILLE, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO LOOK AT THAT WHEN YOU CONTINUE -- WHEN YOUR GOVERNOR CONTINUES TO TALK ABOUT INCREASING CORPORATE INCOME TAXES."

Gronstal: WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT, BECAUSE THE COMBINED REPORTING DOESN'T HAVE AN IMPACT ON LOCATION DECISIONS BECAUSE IOWA HAS A SINGLE-FACTOR TAX.

Yepsen: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT --

Gronstal: IT'S ONLY BASED ON SALES -- IT'S ONLY BASED ON SALES IN IOWA, AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT INCREASING CORPORATE INCOME TAXES. NO ONE IS TALKING THAT.

McKibben: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

Gronstal: BUT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT GETTING -- WELL, IF YOU BELIEVE COMPANIES LIKE ENRON WERE COMPLETELY HONEST WITH THEIR BOOKS -- THAT'S ALL COMBINED REPORTING IS, IS GETTING CORPORATIONS TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES OWED, NOT -- IF YOU THINK THEIR ACCOUNTANTS WERE COMPLETELY HONEST WITH THEIR BOOKS, I THINK YOU'RE --

McKibben: WELL, SENATOR --

Gronstal: -- A BIT DELUDED ON THAT, SENATOR MCKIBBEN.

McKibben: I'M FIGHTING LIKE THE DICKENS --

Gronstal: NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE RATE ON CORPORATE INCOME CUT. NOBODY WANTS TO RAISE TAX BUT SOME CORPORATIONS DON'T TREAT US FAIRLY. THEY JUGGLE THEIR BOOKS SO THAT THEIR PROFITS SHOW UP OUTSIDE THE STATE OF IOWA.

Yepsen: SENATOR GRONSTAL, ARE DEMOCRATS -- ARE YOU TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS? I MEAN YOU COME OUT HERE AND BEMOAN ALL PROBLEMS THAT NEED TAX MONEY, AND THEN YOU TURN AROUND AND SAY, NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RAISE TAXES. AREN'T YOU REALLY TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?

Gronstal: LISTEN, FOR THE LAST TWENTY-TWO YEARS I'VE BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE, THE GOVERNOR PROPOSES A BUDGET, THE MAJORITY PARTY COMES UP WITH THEIR BUDGET AND THE MINORITY PARTY COMES UP WITH WHAT'S REASONABLE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. WE'RE THE LOYAL OPPOSITION AND WE'LL TAKE REPUBLICANS' BUDGET, IF AND WHEN THEY HAVE ONE, AND WE'LL MAKE JUDGMENTS ABOUT WHAT'S LACKING IN THAT BUDGET.

Yepsen: WHAT DO YOU WANT TO CUT? I MEAN IF YOU'VE GOT THESE PRIORITIES AND YOU DON'T WANT TO RAISE TAXES --

Gronstal: I THINK WE STILL -- I THINK WE STILL HAVE RESERVE FUNDS WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT. THERE'S GOING TO BE $180 MILLION LEFT IN THE CASH RESERVE FUND. THERE'S STILL SOME MONEY IN SOME OTHER FUNDS OUT THERE THAT WE CAN LOOK AT, AND THERE ARE STILL EFFICIENCIES TO BE HAD IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

Yepsen: SUCH AS?

Gronstal: WELL, I THINK THERE'S -- I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOOKING AT COMBINATIONS OF STATE DEPARTMENTS. WE SAVED SEVERAL MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LAST YEAR BY CREATING AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES DEPARTMENT THAT COMBINED SEVERAL SEPARATE AGENCIES FROM BEFORE.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, $336 MILLION OF BUILDING EXPENSES. HAVE YOU GOT ENOUGH MONEY IN THE RESERVE FUNDS TO COVER ALL THAT?

McKibben: WE CERTAINLY DON'T, DAVID.

Yepsen: THEN, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO CUT?

McKibben: ONE OF THE PROPOSALS THAT REPRESENTATIVE DIX PUT OUT THERE IS THAT THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS TAKE A SALARY FREEZE. THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN MINNESOTA, AS YOU KNOW. THE UNIONS AGREED UP THERE TO A TWO-YEAR FREEZE. I THINK WE NEED A TWO-YEAR SALARY FREEZE. IT WILL AMOUNT TO -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER. SOMEWHERE BETWEEN $60- AND $80 MILLION A YEAR FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS. THESE ARE THE KIND OF COMMON-SENSE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE. THE GOVERNOR SAYS TO THE DEPARTMENTS, I'M NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SALARIES BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU ANY NEW DOLLARS. THAT MEANS IN FACT THE GOVERNOR HAS ASKED FOR LAYOFFS. WE HAVE SAID LET'S NOT LAY OFF THE IMPORTANT FOLKS THAT ARE DOING THE CONTACT WORK WITH OUR CITIZENS, BUT LET'S TAKE A SALARY FREEZE. LET'S BE REASONABLE IN THESE TOUGH TIMES, AND IT'S SIMPLY THE GOVERNOR WON'T CONSIDER IT.

Gronstal: YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE THAT IF IN FACT -- I MEAN THE LAST TIME THE AFSCME UNION IN IOWA NEGOTIATED A FREEZE FOR A WHILE, THEY DELAYED A PAY INCREASE THAT THEY'D WON AT THE BARGAINING TABLE. THEY DELAYED IT. THE LAST TIME THEY DID THAT, THE REPUBLICANS CAME BACK AND LAID OFF 10 PERCENT OF THE WORK FORCE. I DON'T THINK THE EMPLOYEES UNION THAT'S GONE THROUGH THE LEGAL COLLECTIVE BARGAINING PROCESS IS GOING TO BE VERY WILLING TO CONSIDER A FREEZE WHEN THEY KNOW IN THE END THE REPUBLICANS ARE JUST GOING TO LAY THEM OFF ANYWAY.

Henderson: ONE OF THE UNKNOWNS OF THE BUDGET PICTURE IS A LAWSUIT PENDING ABOUT GAMBLING AND THE STATE'S TAX RATE, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FOR THE BOATS AND FOR THE RACETRACKS. SENATOR MCKIBBEN, HOW DO YOU BUILD THAT UNKNOWN INTO THE BUDGET? DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO BE RESOLVED QUICKLY?

McKibben: I THOUGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A DECISION ON THAT CASE BY NOW, THAT WE WOULD KNOW. I DO NOT KNOW AND HAVEN'T CHECKED WITH THE COURT AS TO WHY THAT HASN'T BEEN OUT. I DON'T KNOW IF THE COURT HAS SAID WHY IT HASN'T BEEN OUT. I ASSUMED THAT THERE'S SOME MAJOR DISCUSSIONS GOING ON IN THE SUPREME COURT AND PERHAPS A MAJOR DIVISION AMONG OUR JUSTICES ABOUT THE OPINION ON THAT CASE, BECAUSE WE EXPECTED IT BEFORE THIS. CERTAINLY IT WILL BE, IF THAT COMES OUT AGAINST US, I DON'T REMEMBER, ANOTHER $120-MILLION HOLE IN THE BUDGET TO TAKE CARE OF. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE GAMBLING ISSUE, ISSUING NEW LICENSES, SELLING THEM FOR $50 MILLION APIECE, THINGS LIKE THAT, TRYING TO GENERATE --

Henderson: YOU'VE ANTICIPATED MY NEXT QUESTION.

McKibben: -- TRYING TO GENERATE SOME ONE-TIME MONEYS. I AM FEARFUL OF A GAMBLING DEBATE. THE LAST ONE I HAD TOOK MONTHS AND MONTHS OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION. I THINK IT REALLY TAKES AWAY FROM OUR NEED TO WORK ON ISSUES THAT GROW THE ECONOMY, THAT HELP OUR RURAL AREAS GET JOBS AND EMPLOYMENT, AND I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO A PROTRACTED GAMBLING DEBATE. AND AS YOU KNOW, IF YOU OPEN THAT DOOR AND YOU BRING THE BILL OUT, EVERY AMENDMENT IS ON THE TABLE, EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE IN GAMBLING. AND I THINK IN A SHORT SESSION IN AN ELECTION YEAR, LET US BRING THE GAMBLING ISSUE UP AFTER THIS NEXT ELECTION. IF IT HAS TO COME UP, LET'S BRING IT UP IN 2005, AFTER THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.

Henderson: SENATOR GRONSTAL, YOU REPRESENT AN AREA WHICH ALREADY HAS RIVERBOAT GAMBLING. SEVERAL OTHER COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE --

Gronstal: RIVERBOAT AND RACETRACK.

Henderson: YES, HAVE HAD REFERENDUMS AND SAID, HEY, WE WANT A LITTLE PIECE OF THIS ACTION. DO YOU THINK THE LEGISLATURE WILL ENGAGE IN A PROTRACTED GAMBLING DEBATE THIS YEAR?

Gronstal: I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE PROTRACTED. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE REPUBLICANS BRING UP MORE BILLS THAT ARE ABOUT GETTING GUBERNATORIAL VETOES THAN ARE REALLY DEALING WITH THE ISSUES THAT IOWANS CARE ABOUT IN TERMS OF PROTRACTED DEBATE. SO I THINK WE CAN -- I THINK WE CAN TAKE UP THE GAMING ISSUE NEXT SESSION. I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT TO PREDICT THE OUTCOME. THERE ARE A LOT OF NEW PLAYERS IN THE LEGISLATURE SINCE THE LAST SERIOUS GAMING DEBATE. AND I'M NOT POSITIVE THE VOTES ARE THERE TO PASS IT, BUT A NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES HAVE -- THEY HAVE SPOKEN, THOSE COMMUNITIES. AND I THINK IT'S FAIR TO DEAL WITH THEIR ISSUE.

Beck: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, ANOTHER LAWSUIT THAT'S HANGING OVER THE LEGISLATURE'S HEAD IS THE LAWSUIT SUING THE GOVERNOR OVER HIS VETOES OF THE TAX CUTS AND BUSINESS REGULATIONS IN THAT IOWA VALUES FUND BILL. THAT BEING SAID, YOU LOST THE FIRST ROUND BUT YOU'RE APPEALING TO THE IOWA SUPREME COURT. DO YOU BUILD YOUR BUDGET ASSUMING YOU'RE GOING TO WIN IN THE HIGH COURT, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE LESS MONEY BECAUSE THOSE TAX CUTS WILL KICK IN?

McKibben: WELL, I THINK, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY'RE ASKING FOR A RAPID REVIEW, BUT A RAPID REVIEW AT THE IOWA SUPREME COURT IS AT LEAST FIVE MONTHS, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND. SO I DO NOT THINK THAT WE WILL HAVE ANY DECISION DURING THE TIME THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS IN SESSION. I THINK IT TAKES OFF INCOME TAX OFF THE TABLE AND REGULATORY REFORM. WE MAY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THOSE INDIVIDUALLY. BUT AS THE LISTENERS KNOW, WE TRIED LAST YEAR TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH PLAN, ONE WHICH DEALT WITH PROPERTY TAX REFORM, INCOME TAX SIMPLIFICATION AND REDUCTION, DEALT WITH REGULATORY REFORM, AND DEALT WITH THE VALUES FUND. AND WHEN WE TRIED TO BUILD THOSE TOGETHER, THE GOVERNOR'S VETO REALLY TOOK TWO PIECES RIGHT OUT OF THE TOWER. AND SO UNTIL THOSE COME BACK IN, I DON'T THINK WE CAN DISCUSS IT.

Yepsen: SENATOR, YOU SAID YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE INDIVIDUALLY, THE REGULATORY REFORM AND THE INCOME TAX PIECE. ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE WILL IN FACT DO ANOTHER INCOME TAX BILL OF SOME KIND, WILL DO A REGULATORY BILL, AND WILL IT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WORK WITH THE GOVERNOR ON, OR IS IT JUST, AS SENATOR GRONSTAL SAID, A PIECE OF CAMP VETO BAIT TO MAKE HIM LOOK BAD, TAKE THE BAD VETO --

McKibben: THERE WAS NO INTENT LAST YEAR TO DO ANYTHING BUT PUT TOGETHER A BIPARTISAN BILL THAT ADDRESSED WHAT REPUBLICANS THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT AND WHAT THE GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATS THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT.

Yepsen: WELL, EXCUSE ME, SENATOR, HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH THAT SO MY QUESTION --

McKibben: HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT.

Yepsen: PROSPECTIVELY THIS COMING SESSION, ARE YOU GOING TO TRY TO SIT DOWN WITH THE GOVERNOR AND WORK OUT SOMETHING OR IS THIS JUST GOING TO BE ANOTHER PARTISAN GAME FOR AN ELECTION YEAR?

McKibben: NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. IF WE NEED TO -- YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT WE CONTINUE TO NEED REGULATORY REFORM IN THIS STATE AND WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A HIGH AND REGRESSIVE TAX SYSTEM IN THE STATE, ONE WHICH DRIVES BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY AND RETIREES OUT OF THE STATE. WE -- IF WE VIEW THAT AS IMPORTANT, WHICH WE DO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.

Beck: THAT BEING SAID, YOU STILL DIDN'T QUITE GET TO MY QUESTION ON HOW DO YOU BUILD YOUR BUDGET, THOUGH, AROUND THAT. EVEN IF YOU TAKE UP TAX BILLS -- SO YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT MONEY OUT OF THE BUDGET, ASSUME IT'S SPENT?

McKibben: I THINK WE WILL -- IF WE WORK ON THE TAX LEGISLATION, I THINK WE'LL DO WHAT WE DID LAST TIME, WHICH WAS VETOED, BUT MOVE ITS EFFECTIVE DATES OUT SO THAT WE CAN FACTOR THAT INTO BUDGETS IN OUT YEARS RATHER THAN THE CURRENT TIME, JENEANE.

Henderson: SO YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO DO IT NOW?

Gronstal: BUT IF YOUR LAWSUIT --

McKibben: I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT IN THE FISCAL '05 BUDGET. I THINK THAT'S PRETTY UNLIKELY. AS I SAID IN MY OPENING, WE'VE GOT FLAT REVENUES THIS YEAR.

Gronstal: IF YOUR LAWSUIT SUCCEEDS, IT'S $36 MILLION OUT OF THIS BUDGET YEAR AND 80 SOME OUT OF NEXT BUDGET YEAR.

McKibben: IF YOU REMEMBER, THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE ABOUT A $45-MILLION WINDFALL FROM THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS CUT TAXES --

Gronstal: SO NOW YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND THAT MONEY TWICE. OKAY. OKAY, I "GUESS" I UNDERSTAND.

McKibben: WHAT WE INTENDED TO DO WAS RETURN IT TO IOWA CITIZENS, SENATOR GRONSTAL --

Gronstal: IF THE COURT NEXT MAY ISSUES THEIR DECISION, THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S YOUR BUDGET PREDICATED ON.

Yepsen: I THINK THE VIEWER UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE. [ LAUGHTER ] LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER QUESTION.

Henderson: THIS PAST WEEK GOVERNOR VILSACK TOOK SOME STEPS TO, IN HIS WORDS, IMPROVE THE REVENUE ESTIMATING PROCESS, WHEREBY A PANEL OF THREE EXPERTS COMES UP WITH A PREDICTION OF WHAT STATE TAX REVENUES ARE GOING TO BE ON DOWN THE ROAD. ISN'T THE REAL PROBLEM, THOUGH, THAT AS THE STATE AUDITORS SAYS, THE LEGISLATURE IN THE PAST FEW YEARS IS SPENDING EVERY LAST DIME IN THE STATE BUDGET, SENATOR GRONSTAL?

Gronstal: WELL, ACTUALLY THEY'RE NOT SPENDING EVERY LAST TIME. WE HAVE A 99-PERCENT EXPENDITURE LIMITATION. IT'S A REASONABLE QUESTION TO ASK WHETHER 99 IS THE RIGHT NUMBER, BUT WE DON'T SPEND EVERY DIME.

Henderson: BUT THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Gronstal: AND AS YOU REMEMBER, THIS BILL WORKED VERY WELL, VERY WELL FOR PROBABLY THE FIRST YEAR, EIGHT YEARS OF ITS EXISTENCE. WE SAVED MONEY. WE WERE ABLE TO AFFORD SIGNIFICANT TAX CUTS. IT WORKED VERY WELL FOR THOSE YEARS. NOW WE'RE AT A PLACE WHERE IT'S NOT WORKING SO WELL. I MEAN WE WERE OFF IN TERMS OF REVENUE PROJECTIONS EACH OF THOSE YEARS. IF ANYBODY CAN REALLY ACCURATELY PREDICT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MESS AROUND WITH THE LEGISLATURE. THEY'RE GOING TO INVEST IN THE STOCK MARKET AND MAKE MILLIONS. WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE PROCESS, BUT IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE PERFECT. THE TIME WHEN IT HURTS -- I MEAN WE'VE HAD THE THREE WORST BUDGET YEARS IN SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS IN IOWA, IN TERMS OF GROWTH TO STATE REVENUES.

Beck: SHOULD WE HAVE A BIGGER CUSHION THAN ONE PERCENT, BECAUSE THEIR ESTIMATES AREN'T OFF BY THAT MUCH, AS YOU'RE SAYING?

McKibben: WELL, I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT, JENEANE. ONE, REFORMING THE PROCESS. WHEN WE'RE IN SESSION, WE HAVE A 99-PERCENT SPENDING LIMITATION, BUT WHEN WE GO INTO SPECIAL SESSION, ALL BETS ARE OFF. THE RULES ARE OFF AND YOU CAN GO SPEND IT OUT. AND THAT'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE SPECIAL SESSIONS. THE SECOND THING -- AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT GOING TO A 98-PERCENT SPENDING LIMITATION, AGAIN TO BUILD OUR RESERVES UP. WHEN YOU HAVE TO GO IN AND BORROW MONEY TO PAY YOUR ONGOING EXPENSES -- I DO NOT WANT TO GO BACK -- WHEN I SAT ON THE SCHOOL BOARD IN MARSHALLTOWN, WE DIDN'T GET OUR PAYMENTS ON TIME IN THE '80S. WE HAD TO GO BORROW MONEY FOR MONTHS ON END BECAUSE THE STATE COULDN'T DO IT. I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK THERE, AND I DON'T THINK LEGISLATORS WANT TO GO BACK THERE.

Gronstal: BUT ACTUALLY YOU DID GO BACK THERE. THE STATE HAS TO BORROW MONEY NOW, BASED ON THIS YEAR'S BUDGET, TO PAYS THOSE SCHOOL AID PAYMENTS ON TIME. THAT'S OCCURRING AGAIN AND THAT'S YOUR BUDGET.

Yepsen: SENATOR --

Gronstal: THAT'S YOUR BUDGET FROM THE LAST SESSION.

Yepsen: CASH FLOW BORROWING HAS ALWAYS OCCURRED BY ADMINISTRATION. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

Gronstal: THAT'S RIGHT. I'M NOT CRITICIZING THAT BUT HE'S SUGGESTING THAT IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.

McKibben: I DON'T THINK I USED THOSE WORDS.

Gronstal: AND IN FACT -- AND IN FACT, THEIR BUDGET FROM LAST SESSION LED TO EXACTLY THAT ACTION THIS YEAR.

Yepsen: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, SHOULD THE 98 PERCENT BE PUT IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION?

McKibben: I'M GOING TO TAKE A REAL HARD LOOK AT THAT. I HAVE NOT MADE UP MY MIND ON THAT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF LEGISLATORS THAT ARE GOING TO PUSH THAT.

Beck: THE IOWA VALUES FUND WAS APPROVED LAST SESSION IN THAT LARGE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL. THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE CLARENCE HOFFMAN, A REPUBLICAN, WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT IT NEEDING A MORE STEADY STREAM OF FUNDING, THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF BUSINESSES THAT WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, BUT THEY'RE CONCERNED THE MONEY WON'T BE THERE. WHAT CAN YOU DO THIS SESSION TO SHORE THAT UP?

McKibben: I'M NOT SURE THAT WE CAN DO ANYTHING IN THE 2004 SESSION TO SHORE THAT UP. WE HAVE MONEY BUDGETED FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, AND I THINK OUR BEST HOPE IS THAT THE ECONOMY CONTINUES TO RECOVER, JOBLESSNESS GOES DOWN, AND OUR REVENUES INCREASE. BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS IS THE SESSION TO GO BACK INTO THE VALUES FUND. WE HAD THAT DEBATE. LET US WAIT TO SEE HOW THE SUPREME COURT RULES ON THE STATUTE, AND GO BACK IN IT IN 2005.

Beck: WELL, I KNOW THAT I JUST HEARD THAT INTERNET SALES ARE UP 30 PERCENT THIS HOLIDAY SEASON. IS THAT A PROBLEM? SHOULD WE BE HURRYING ON THAT INTERNET TAX TO PAY FOR THE IOWA VALUES FUND?

Gronstal: THAT'S BEEN PART OF THE EROSION OF STATE REVENUES OVER LAST FEW YEARS IS WE LOSE SALES TAX REVENUE TO LARGE INTERNET RETAILERS OUT OF STATE, AND IT'S A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE FOR THOSE OUT-OF-STATE RETAILERS OVER THE PEOPLE IN IOWA THAT BUILD BUILDINGS AND BRICKS AND MORTAR AND PAY EMPLOYEES HERE. WE'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT, AS A MATTER OF FAIRNESS, THAT WE OUGHT TO DO A BETTER JOB OF --

Beck: HOW SOON CAN THAT HAPPEN?

Gronstal: -- TO EQUALIZING THAT PLAYING FIELD. THERE'S SOME FEDERAL LAW INVOLVED IN THAT. I MEAN I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK THERE ARE MAGIC SOLUTIONS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN QUICKLY, BUT I DO THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A COMMITMENT TO THE IOWA VALUES FUND BEYOND JUST HOPING IN THE NEXT -- HOPING WE CAN GET PAST THIS NEXT ELECTION AND HOPING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I THINK WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING TO CREATE A STABLE SOURCE OF FUNDING FOR THE IOWA VALUES FUND THIS YEAR.

Henderson: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, SENATOR GRONSTAL AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROGRAM SAID EDUCATION NEEDS TO BE A PRIORITY. SCHOOLS HAVE STARTED AGITATING FOR A 6-PERCENT INCREASE IN GENERAL STATE AID FOR SCHOOLS IN THE COMING YEAR. IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

McKibben: WELL, I THINK IT'S UNREALISTIC. IN THOSE LETTERS, I'VE BEEN CONTACTED BY FOLKS. IN THESE TOUGH TIMES, I SIMPLY DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN ASK FOR A 6-PERCENT INCREASE WHEN NOBODY ELSE IN BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY AND IN PUBLIC SECTORS ARE ACCOMPLISHING THAT. I JUST SAID EARLIER, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK OUR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES TO TIGHTEN THEIR BELT AND ASK FOR NO INCREASE. WE HAVE TO GET THROUGH THE NEXT YEAR, AND TO ASK FOR A 6-PERCENT INCREASE, I THINK, IS TERRIBLY UNREALISTIC.

Yepsen: SENATOR GRONSTAL, IS IT UNREALISTIC FOR 6 PERCENT FOR SCHOOLS?

Gronstal: I THINK WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS 6 PERCENT FOR THE YEAR AFTER NEXT. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Beck: NO, THEY WANT IT NEXT YEAR AND THE NEXT YEAR AFTER. THEY WANT IT TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

Henderson: GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

Gronstal: ACTUALLY THE LETTERS --

Beck: THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE 2 PERCENT.

Gronstal: A COUPLE OF THE LETTERS I'VE GOTTEN HAVE SAID 6 PERCENT, BASICALLY UNDERSTANDING WE HAVE A TIGHT BUDGET YEAR. BUT IF WE CAN -- IF WE CAN BET ON -- BET ON THE COMMON TERMS OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO FINANCE OUR IOWA VALUES FUND, WHY CAN'T WE BET ON THE COMFORT OF IOWA SCHOOL TEACHERS AND FOR IOWA SCHOOL KIDS.

Yepsen: ISN'T IT MORE REALISTIC TO SAY YOU'LL BE LUCKY TO GET THEM 2 PERCENT?

Gronstal: WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT VERY HARD NOT TO CUT NEXT YEAR'S LEVEL.

Yepsen: WELL, A 2-PERCENT INCREASE --

Gronstal: THAT'S WHAT IT'S SET AT IS AT 2 PERCENT.

Henderson: SENATOR MCKIBBEN, HOUSE SPEAKER CHRISTOPHER RANTS HAS SUGGESTED THAT STUDENTS AT THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS IN IOWA CITY, AMES, AND CEDAR FALLS SHOULD HAVE A BETTER GUESS AT WHAT THEIR TUITION RATE WILL BE AND THAT WHAT THEY PAY WHEN THEY'RE A FRESHMAN SHOULD BE THE SAME RATE THEY PAY WHEN THEY'RE A SENIOR. DO YOU THINK THAT KIND OF PROPOSAL WHERE YOU'RE SET AND GIVE SOME STABILITY TUITION RATES FOR STUDENTS AND THEIR PARENTS IS GOING TO PASS?

McKibben: WELL, WE WOULD ALL LIKE THOSE, THOSE OF US THAT HAVE PAID TUITIONS OVER THE YEARS HERE WOULD LIKE SOME STABILITY. ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS THE MINUTE YOU DO THAT, KAY, IS THAT IF THAT'S GOING TO BE THE TUITION RATE, THEN THE PERSON CHARGING IT IS GOING TO BUILD IT HIGH ENOUGH THAT THEY'RE COVERED FOR FOUR YEARS OF INFLATION AND WHATEVER ELSE MIGHT HAPPEN. SO YOU COULD, IN FACT, HAVE A HIGHER UP-FRONT TUITION THAN YOU'D HAVE IF GO THROUGH THE -- IF WE GET BACK TO NOT HAVING THE TIMES AS DIFFICULT AS THEY ARE NOW.

Gronstal: THIS IS ONE WE PROBABLY ACTUALLY AGREE ON.

McKibben: THE FRONT LOADING OF THAT BOTHERS ME.

Gronstal: AND THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH IT IS, WHILE THAT'S GREAT FOR ME IF I'VE GOT A FRESHMAN THIS YEAR, BUT IF I'VE GOT A KID THREE YEARS BEHIND HIM, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE A HUGE HIT ON THEIR TUITION INCREASES. SO IT JUST SHIFTS THE PROBLEM AMONG KIDS OF DIFFERENT AGES. IT JUST SHIFTS IT DOWN.

Yepsen: SENATOR, ON THAT NOTE OF AGREEMENT, I WANT TO MOVE ON TO A COUPLE OTHER SUBJECTS. WE'VE ONLY GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT. GAY MARRIAGE, DO YOU -- DOES THE IOWA LEGISLATURE NEED TO GET INTO THE STATE'S MARRIAGE LAWS TO DEAL WITH THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THE STATE IS GOING TO RECOGNIZE MARRIAGES IN MASSACHUSETTS AND VERMONT? AND SECONDLY, HOW CAN THE STATE -- HOW CAN A STATE JUDGE IN IOWA GRANT A DIVORCE TO A GAY COUPLE BUT CANNOT MARRY THAT SAME COUPLE?

Gronstal: THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A RESOLUTION, IT HAS TO BE A NATIONAL RESOLUTION. IT'S THE ISSUE OF THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE CONSTITUTION. THOSE AREN'T THINGS THAT IOWA ON ITS OWN CAN SOLVE. IT'S GOING TO TAKE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO TAKE ACTION ON THAT. AND I'D SUGGEST OUR ENERGY IS BETTER FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE EDUCATION IS TAKEN CARE OF, HEALTH CARE.

Yepsen: DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, SENATOR?

McKibben: I DON'T AND I'M VERY FEARFUL THAT WE WILL HAVE A MARRIAGE -- NEED TO HAVE A MARRIAGE DEBATE, BECAUSE I THINK IT WAS A WRONG DECISION ENTERED BY THE JUDGE. I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW THE JUDGE IN SIOUX CITY, BUT LIBERAL JUDGES HAVE TENDED TO TRY TO RULE AND MAKE LAW FROM THE BENCH. AND IF THEY DO THAT, I THINK IT REQUIRES LEGISLATIVE ACTION.

Yepsen: AND I'VE GOT TO MAKE A RULE FROM THIS BENCH THAT WE'RE OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY. WE APPRECIATE IT. NOW, ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WE'RE BACK OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, AND JOINING US IS DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS OF NORTH CAROLINA HERE TO DISCUSS HIS CAMPAIGN. WE RETURN AT OUR REGULAR AIRTIMES NEXT WEEKEND: FRIDAY AT 7:30 P.M. AND SUNDAY AT NOON. DEAN BORG RETURNS TO THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE NEXT WEEKEND, AND I HOPE YOU WILL AS WELL. UNTIL THEN, I'M DAVID YEPSEN OF "THE DES MOINES REGISTER." THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION;

AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.