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| Dr. Robert Koob
IOWA PRESS #3128>>
Yepsen: THE BUDGET CRUNCH HAS BECOME BUDGET REALITY FOR IOWA, IOWA STATE, AND UNI. THE BOARD OF REGENTS CONTINUES TO STRUGGLE WITH THE LEDGER. WE DISCUSS HIGHER EDUCATION IN IOWA WITH DR. ROBERT KOOB, PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN IOWA, AND WITH BOARD OF REGENTS MEMBER BOB DOWNER, OF IOWA CITY, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."
FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS" THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION;
AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.
ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION THIS IS THE FRIDAY, MARCH 12 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.
Yepsen: GOOD EVENING. TONIGHT'S PROGRAM IS THE SECOND OF THREE "IOWA PRESS" EDITIONS FOCUSING ON EDUCATION IN IOWA. YOU MIGHT RECALL THAT LAST WEEKEND WE DISCUSSED K-12 SCHOOLS WITH TED STILWILL, THE DIRECTOR OF THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THIS EVENING OUR SPOTLIGHT SHIFTS TO HIGHER EDUCATION, SPECIFICALLY THE STATE UNIVERSITIES. IN STATEHOUSE CIRCLES, CONVENTIONAL WISDOM HAS IT THAT EACH BUDGET CYCLE PRODUCES WINNERS AND LOSERS. REGENTS COMPLAIN THEY'VE BEEN ON THE LOSING END IN ABOUT THE LAST FIVE. WELL, HERE TO HELP US SORT THROUGH THE PARTICULARS ARE DR. ROBERT KOOB, PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN IOWA IN CEDAR FALLS, AND ATTORNEY ROBERT DOWNER OF IOWA CITY, A MEMBER OF THE STATE BOARD OF REGENTS. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO "IOWA PRESS" AND TO IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION. IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.
Downer: IT'S NICE TO BE HERE.
Yepsen: ALSO WITH US AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE ARE TODD DORMAN, IOWA STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF WITH "THE LEE NEWSPAPERS," AND KAY HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR WITH "RADIO IOWA."
Henderson: DR. KOOB, LET'S START WITH AN ASSESSMENT. WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE THREE STATE-SUPPORTED UNIVERSITIES?
Koob: WELL, I THINK THE INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES HAVE DONE VERY WELL. WE ENTERED THIS PERIOD WITH WHAT WE CALL A STRATEGIC PLAN CONTRACT WITH THE BOARD, WHICH IDENTIFIED OUR COMMITMENT TO QUALITY AT ALL THREE CAMPUSES. THAT MEANS, THOUGH, THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE STEPS WHEN WE HAVE BUDGET REDUCTIONS THAT AFFECT OTHER SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE. SO EACH OF US HAS KEPT OUR EYE ON THE BALL, IF YOU LIKE, IN PROVIDING AN EXCELLENT EDUCATION FOR OUR STUDENTS, BUT MANY OF THE PERIPHERAL SERVICES, MANY OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE HAVE HAD TO BE DIMINISHED SIGNIFICANTLY. THERE'S BEEN A SECONDARY EFFECT IN THAT FEWER STUDENTS HAVE ACCESS NOW TO THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE RISING TUITIONS HAVE MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET THERE. THIS IS -- I THINK EVIDENCE IS PROVIDED FOR THAT BY THE RAPID GROWTH IN ENROLLMENTS IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES. SO THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM AS A WHOLE IS STILL PROVIDING A PLACE FOR THESE STUDENTS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT FROM ENROLLMENT AT REGENTS CAMPUSES TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
Henderson: MR. DOWNER, DO YOU SHARE THAT ASSESSMENT THAT THERE'S BEEN A DIMINISHMENT OF THE QUALITY OF THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS?
Downer: I DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THAT THAT HAS OCCURRED TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE. I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THE INSTITUTIONS HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB IN POSITIONING THEMSELVES TO BETTER SERVE THE STUDENTS WITH THE RESOURCES THAT THEY HAVE AVAILABLE. THIS HAS REQUIRED A GOOD DEAL OF INNOVATION AND BELT TIGHTENING IN CERTAIN RESPECTS. A NUMBER OF ADMINISTRATIVE POSITIONS HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED. BUT AS FAR AS THE CLASSROOM PROGRAMS AND THE RESEARCH ASPECTS OF THE INSTITUTIONS ARE CONCERNED, I THINK THAT THOSE ARE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE.
Henderson: WELL, SIR, WOULD YOU SAY THEN THIS HAS BEEN A HEALTHY PROCESS TO SORT OF REEVALUATE THE UNIVERSITIES' MISSIONS?
Downer: WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RESPECTS IN WHICH I BELIEVE THAT THESE REDUCTIONS CAN HAVE LONG-TERM ADVERSE EFFECTS. THESE, I DON'T THINK, HAVE BEEN FELT TO TOO GREAT A DEGREE AT THIS POINT, BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS LONG TERM WITH WHICH I'M CONCERNED. I THINK ADMINISTRATIVELY SOME OF THE INSTITUTIONS, FRANKLY, ARE TOO THIN. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY HAVE ATTEMPTED TO PRESERVE THEIR CORE EDUCATIONAL MISSIONS AND IN THAT REGARD I THINK HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB.
Henderson: WHAT ABOUT THE HEALTH OF REEVALUATING THE MISSION AND THEN THAT LONG-TERM VIEW?
Koob: WELL, THERE'S A PERCEPTION, I'M AFRAID, OUT THERE THAT WE AREN'T CONSTANTLY DOING THAT ANYWAY. THIS BOARD OF REGENTS, EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN IN IOWA, HAS CONSTANTLY ASKED US TO REEVALUATE OUR MISSION AND CONSTANTLY ENCOURAGED US TO IMPROVE. SO AT UNI, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAD A CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT PROCESS IN PLACE NOW FOR THE ENTIRE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN HERE. WE'RE WORKING REGULARLY TO MOVE DOLLARS OUT OF, FOR EXAMPLE, BUSINESSES PROCESSES AND INTO INSTRUCTIONAL PROCESSES. SO I DON'T SEE THE HEALTH OF THE BUDGET REDUCTION, AND I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH REGENT DOWNER THAT WE HAVE NOW INSTABILITIES IN THE SYSTEM, PARTICULARLY IN OUR CASE, WITH WAY TOO LOW EQUIPMENT BUDGETS. COMPUTERS, AS YOU KNOW, BECOME OBSOLETE ROUGHLY ON A THREE-YEAR CYCLE. WE HAD IN PLACE, BEFORE THE BUDGET REDUCTIONS, A THREE-YEAR REPLACEMENT CYCLE FOR COMPUTER EQUIPMENT ON THE CAMPUS. WE'VE HAD TO DECIMATE THAT AND WE WON'T SEE THAT IMPACT IN YEAR ONE OR YEAR TWO. BUT IF WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS FOR THREE OR FOUR MORE YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE, CLEARLY THE OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR STUDENTS TO HAVE STATE-OF-THE-ART EQUIPMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR FIRST-RATE EXPERIENCES WILL BE DIMINISHED. SO WE'RE AT AN IMPORTANT TRANSITION AT THIS TIME. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR US, I THINK, THAT THIS, QUOTE, RECESSION, WHICH HAS REALLY BEEN A RECESSION, IS OVER, THAT IT'S TIME FOR REINVESTMENT IN PUBLIC EDUCATION.
Dorman: WELL, DR. KOOB, I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU THIS, BUT IT'S ALSO TIME FOR MARCH MADNESS IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL. CONGRATULATIONS TO THE PANTHERS, BY THE WAY.
Koob: THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT.
Dorman: BUT NOT ALL THE HEADLINES, MR. DOWNER, HAVE BEEN GOOD ABOUT COLLEGE ATHLETICS LATELY. THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS ABOUT RECRUITING CONDUCT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA, COLORADO -- THE UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO. DO YOU THINK THE BOARD OF REGENTS NEEDS TO STEP IN HERE AND SET POLICIES FOR ALL THE STATE UNIVERSITIES ON ATHLETIC RECRUITING?
Downer: THERE IS A STUDY GROUP WITHIN THE BOARD OF REGENTS THAT HAS OVERSIGHT OF INTERCOLLEGIATE ATHLETICS AT THE INSTITUTIONS. I DON'T HAPPEN TO BE A PART OF THAT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE, BEING FROM IOWA CITY, I THOUGHT I MIGHT BE ACCUSED OF SOME BIAS BY IOWA STATE AND UNI. BUT I BELIEVE THAT THIS GROUP HAS DONE A GOOD JOB, AND I ALSO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE ADMINISTRATIONS, BOTH GENERALLY AND IN THE ATHLETIC PROGRAMS, IN EACH OF THESE INSTITUTIONS. I BELIEVE THAT THESE PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN RUN VERY WELL OVER THE YEARS. I THINK THAT'S EXEMPLIFIED BY THE FACT THAT THERE HAVE NOT BEEN SERIOUS NCAA OR CONFERENCE RULE VIOLATIONS AT ANY OF THE SCHOOLS, AND I HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE IN THE WAY THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE BEING OPERATED IN IOWA.
Dorman: WELL, DR. KOOB, THERE SEEMS ALSO TO BE A SENSE OUT THERE AMONG IOWANS AS THEY HEAR CONCERNS ABOUT BUDGET CUTS BUT YET THEY SEE UNIVERSITIES BUILDING NEW ATHLETIC FACILITIES, THEY SEE REVENUES FOR THOSE SPORTS ROLLING IN. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE IOWANS THAT THINK THE PRIORITIES ARE OUT OF WHACK?
Koob: WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT DOLLARS AREN'T FUNGIBLE AND THAT MONEY THAT'S CONTRIBUTED, FOR EXAMPLE, BY A FAN -- AND YOU'RE IN TELEVISION HERE. I MEAN YOU'RE AWARE THAT PEOPLE ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT ENTERTAINMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND A WAY TO SPEND MONEY ON IT. THE FACT THAT GAMBLING REVENUES DIDN'T REDUCE AND TAX REVENUES DID IS ANOTHER EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SPEND MONEY ON ENTERTAINMENT THAT THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO SPEND ON TAXES, JUST AS A SIMPLE ILLUSTRATION. SO IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT THINGS THAT MIGHT CONTRIBUTE TO THAT NEED OF THE PUBLIC WILL CONTINUE TO GET SUPPORT FROM THE PUBLIC. IN OUR OWN CASE WHERE WE'RE PLANNING TO BUILD A NEW BASKETBALL ARENA, ALL OF THE FUNDS -- EVERY PENNY OF THE FUNDS HAS COME FROM PRIVATE DONATIONS. NOT A PENNY OF IT HAS COME FROM ANY STATE DOLLARS, AND THOSE DOLLARS WOULD NOT HAVE FLOWED TO THE CAMPUS HAD IT BEEN NOT THAT WE HAD PROVIDED THAT DESTINATION FOR THEM. SO IT'S A QUESTION OF DO YOU TAKE THE MONEY OR NOT. IF YOU TAKE IT, YOU HAVE TO DO WITH IT WHAT IT WAS INTENDED TO BE SPENT ON. SO WE HAVE THIS IN A WIDE VARIETY OF WAYS, WHETHER IT BE OUR RESEARCH PROGRAMS, WHETHER IT BE OUR ENTERTAINMENT PROGRAMS. OUR EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS ARE BELIEVED FUNDAMENTALLY TO BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE AND THE STUDENT. OTHER THINGS THAT WE DO IN THESE MULTIPLE-PURPOSE UNIVERSITIES ARE SUPPORTED BY ALTERNATIVE STREAMS OF INCOME, AND YOU CAN'T MOVE DOLLARS BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THOSE. AS MUCH AS YOU MIGHT LIKE IT TO HAPPEN, IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL. IT WOULD BE AN ENRON TYPE OF CASE IF WE WERE TO TRY TO DO THAT SORT OF THING, AND SO WE DON'T. WE BEHAVE VERY RESPONSIBLY AND COMPLETELY CONSISTENT WITH THE LAW. AND GENERALLY ACCEPTED ACCOUNTING PRINCIPLES SAY YOU SHOULD SPEND THE MONEY FOR THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH IT WAS INTENDED, AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE FOR US.
Henderson: THERE ARE THOSE, MR. DOWNER, WHO ARGUE THAT THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH THEY WERE CREATED IN THAT PROFESSORS ON THE CAMPUSES HAVE BECOME SORT OF THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT EMPLOYEES OF BUSINESS. IS THERE A LINE THAT'S BEING DRAWN AND A LINE THAT MAY BE COMPROMISED HERE AS THE UNIVERSITIES BECOME MORE AND MORE INVOLVED IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS?
Downer: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, KAY. THE BIGGEST PART OF THE RESEARCH FUNDING AT THE REGENT INSTITUTIONS IS FROM GOVERNMENT SOURCES. THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH PROVIDE A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO THE HEALTH SCIENCES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA. THERE ARE VARIOUS SORTS OF AGRICULTURAL FUNDING AT IOWA STATE. AND WHILE PRIVATE FUNDING FOR RESEARCH IS SIGNIFICANT, IT IS NOT THE MAJOR PART OF THE FUNDING THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS RECEIVE. THERE HAVE BEEN NO INDICATIONS AT THIS POINT THAT I'VE SEEN THAT THAT IN ANY SENSE IS NOT BEING APPROPRIATELY SUPERVISED BY THE INSTITUTIONS.
Yepsen: I WANT TO FLIP KAY'S QUESTION AROUND. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE CRITICISM, MR. DOWNER, THAT THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH TO HELP IOWA'S ECONOMY? YOU SIT THERE IN THOSE COLLEGE TOWNS -- IOWA CITY, AMES, CEDAR FALLS -- YOU TAKE ALL THIS MONEY IN FROM IOWA, AND YOU DON'T PUT ENOUGH BACK.
Downer: I BELIEVE THAT THE BOARD DURING THE RELATIVELY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THAT I'VE BEEN ON, DAVE, HAS WORKED VERY, VERY HARD TO REFUTE THOSE ARGUMENTS. WE WERE JUST AT THE CAPITOL ON TUESDAY MEETING WITH THE HOUSE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, REPORTING ON WHAT ALL OF THE INSTITUTIONS ARE DOING WITH THE FUNDING THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE GROW IOWA VALUES FUND, TALKING ABOUT REASSESSING POLICIES ON TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND MATTERS OF THAT NATURE. I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN SEEING WHAT WE CAN DO TO BENEFIT IOWA AND NOT JUST THE COLLEGE COMMUNITIES. I THINK THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN IOWA STATE AND TRANS OVA IN EXTREME NORTHWEST IOWA, FOR EXAMPLE, IS A VERY POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT. THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA IS INTERACTING ON AN INCUBATOR IN THE QUAD CITIES. I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE WORKING TO A GREATER DEGREE IN THOSE AREAS OF THE STATE WHERE THE INSTITUTIONS AREN'T LOCATED.
Yepsen: DR. KOOB, A DIFFERENT VERSION OF THE SAME QUESTION: WHERE HAVE THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS BEEN? YOU HEAR THIS CRITICISM FROM LEGISLATORS THAT IF I HAVE A DOLLAR, I'M GOING TO GET A BIGGER BANG FOR MY BUCK IF I PUT IT INTO K-12 OR IN A COMMUNITY COLLEGE CLOSER TO HOME OR A PRIVATE COLLEGE CLOSER TO HOME THAN I AM GIVING IT TO THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
Koob: WELL, THE BANG IN WHOSE BUCK, I GUESS. THE QUESTION IS --
Yepsen: WELL, EXCUSE ME, SIR. IT TOOK THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA TWENTY YEARS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF GETTING PHYSICIANS INTO SMALL TOWNS. IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY, WHICH PURPORTS TO BE A GREAT LAND GRANT INSTITUTIONS IN OUR STATE, STILL HASN'T SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF HOG LOT ODORS, WHICH IS ARGUABLY RIPPING THE SOCIAL FABRIC OF THIS STATE APART. SO HAVE THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS BEEN AWOL ON THE GREAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL ISSUES FACING OUR STATE?
Koob: NOT IN THE LEAST. LET ME GIVE YOU A SIMPLE STATISTIC. IN THE STATE OF IOWA, THE PATENTS THAT LEAD TO PRODUCTIVE BUSINESSES OUT OF THE REGENTS UNIVERSITIES ACCOUNT FOR 11 PERCENT OF THE PATENT PRODUCTION. THE AVERAGE NATIONALLY IS 2 PERCENT. SO TO SAY THAT IOWA UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN AWOL IS JUST ABSOLUTELY BASED ON IGNORANCE. I MEAN THEY'RE NOT AWARE THAT, IN FACT, THAT IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THE THREE REGENTS UNIVERSITIES HAVE MADE, IOWA WOULD BE NOWHERE NEAR IT IS. I THINK IT'S A WAY TO DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT IOWA BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN LARGELY TAKEN OVER BY PEOPLE FROM OUT OF STATE. AND THEREFORE, MUCH OF THE REINVESTMENT THAT OUGHT TO BE OCCURRING HERE IN IOWA IS NOT REOCCURRING HERE IN IOWA. IT'S OCCURRING IN OTHER LABORATORIES IN OTHER PLACES. AND THAT'S, I SUSPECT, NATURAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE POPULATION CENTERS ARE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSITIES HAVEN'T MADE THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS. IOWA STATE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS ONE OF THE TOP TWO PATENT PRODUCERS IN THE UNITED STATES AND HAS BEEN IN THAT AREA FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS. SO IOWA'S UNIVERSITIES, IN FACT, GET MORE BANG FOR THEIR BUCK THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY. FOR THE INVESTMENT MADE BY IOWANS, THE AMOUNT OF RETURN AND THE QUALITY THAT'S PROVIDED IS SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER THAN YOU WOULD FIND IN ALMOST ANY OTHER STATE.
Dorman: AT THE SAME TIME, MR. DOWNER, THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS EXPRESSED IN AMES AND OTHER CITIES THAT THE REGENTS UNIVERSITIES ARE ACTUALLY COMPETING DIRECTLY WITH PRIVATE BUSINESS, THAT THERE ARE RESTAURANTS AND CONVENIENCE STORES ON CAMPUS THAT ARE TAKING BUSINESS AWAY FROM --
Yepsen: PRO SHOPS AND TRAVEL AGENCIES.
Dorman: SURE. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE FOLKS THAT SAY THE COMPETITION ISN'T FAIR?
Downer: THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK HAS TO CONSTANTLY BE REASSESSED. WE ANNUALLY GET A REPORT IN THE BOARD ON ENDEAVORS THAT THE INSTITUTIONS ARE ENGAGED IN THAT COMPETE WITH PRIVATE BUSINESS, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK THE BOARD IS VERY SENSITIVE TO. IT IS DIFFICULT MANY TIMES TO DRAW THE LINE AS TO WHERE SERVICE TO THE UNIVERSITY COMMUNITY LEAVES OFF AND WHERE IT INTERFERES WITH PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CERTAINLY LOOK AT, AND I THINK THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS DO ALSO, THAT WE DO FEEL THAT THERE HAS TO BE A STRONG TIE BETWEEN THE PARTICULAR BUSINESS ENTERPRISE IN WHICH THE INSTITUTION IS ENGAGED AND CONNECTING WITH THE UNIVERSITY COMMUNITY.
Yepsen: MR. DOWNER, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT PUBLIC RADIO. FIFTY YEARS AGO WHEN RADIO WAS A RELATIVELY NEW MEDIUM, STATE GOVERNMENT IN IOWA DECIDED THAT IT WOULD GET INVOLVED IN RADIO AND PROVIDING THAT SERVICE TO IOWANS THROUGH THE STATE UNIVERSITIES. TODAY WE'RE AWASH IN RADIO. THIS MORNING WHEN I WAS COMING OUT TO TAPE THIS PROGRAM, I HEARD THE SAME NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO PROGRAM ON THREE DIFFERENT STATIONS. IS THAT A WISE USE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS?
Downer: THE STATIONS ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE SELF-SUPPORTING. WOI, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS HAD ALL OF ITS FUNDING FROM THE INSTITUTIONAL BUDGET ELIMINATED, AND THERE ARE REDUCTIONS AT BOTH UNI AND THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THESE STATIONS OPERATE AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE, THAT THEY COLLABORATE ON PROGRAMMING IN A WAY THAT WILL BOTH SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST THROUGHOUT THE STATE, AND DO IT IN AN EFFICIENT MANNER. I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS BOTH AN INCREASED AMOUNT OF PRIVATE FUND-RAISING THAT'S BEING DONE BY THOSE STATIONS AND A REDUCED DEPENDENCE ON TAX FUNDS.
Henderson: ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS FROM STUDENTS IS THAT TUITION HAS BEEN GROWING TOO FAST WHILE AT THE SAME TIME THEY'RE FINDING IT MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO GRADUATE IN FOUR YEARS BECAUSE COURSE OFFERINGS HAVE BEEN REDUCED. DR. KOOB, SHOULD TUITION BE RAISED HIGHER IN THIS STATE TO HELP ALLEVIATE THAT PROBLEM FOR STUDENTS?
Koob: THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC DEBATE THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR: DO WE WANT PUBLIC EDUCATION OR DO WE WANT PRIVATE EDUCATION? I WILL ARGUE THE TWO ENDS OF IT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'RE ALMOST EXACTLY IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN PUBLIC EDUCATION AND PRIVATE EDUCATION. PUBLIC EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES WAS FOUNDED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE PUBLIC GOOD FROM AN EDUCATED POPULATION OUTWEIGHED THE COSTS TO THE TAXPAYER, AND WE FOLLOWED THAT MODEL FOR MANY YEARS. AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU CAN ALMOST MAKE THE ARGUMENT AND PERHAPS YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS ACHIEVED ITS WORLD LEADERSHIP AS A RESULT OF ITS INVESTMENT IN PUBLIC EDUCATION MADE AS EARLY AS 1862, AND THAT'S BEEN A TRADITION IN THIS COUNTRY FOR YEARS. THE WORLD KNOWS THAT YOU HAVE MORE ACCESS TO EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION. AT THE SAME TIME, AS BUDGETS BECAME MORE DIFFICULT AND THE DEMAND FOR EDUCATION INCREASED, IT BECAME EASIER FOR LEGISLATORS TO SAY, "I CAN'T FUND YOU QUITE AS MUCH. WHY DON'T YOU INTRODUCE A FEE?" THAT BECAME A TUITION AND THEN THE DEPENDENCE ON THAT TUITION HAS GROWN SO THAT INSTEAD OF HAVING -- WHEN I WENT TO SCHOOL, I PAID LESS THAN 10 PERCENT OF THE COST OF EDUCATION AS MY PRICE IN TUITION, AND I WENT TO THE SAME PLACE I AM NOW. MY COST PER STUDENT IN INFLATION-ADJUSTED DOLLARS TODAY IS LESS THAN IT WAS IN 1960, SO OUR COSTS HAVEN'T GONE UP AT ALL. ALL RIGHT? THEY'VE ACTUALLY GONE DOWN JUST A LITTLE BIT. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE PRICE HAS GONE UP SIGNIFICANTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE MOVED THE RESPONSIBILITY FROM THE STATE, WHICH WAS OUR INVESTMENT IN OUR HERITAGE AS PUBLIC EDUCATION, TO THE INDIVIDUAL, SAYING, "WELL, THERE'S A PRIVATE GOOD HERE. YOU MAKE MORE MONEY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION. YOU OUGHT TO PAY FOR IT." OUR STUDENTS GRADUATE NOW WITH DEBT NEARLY $20,000 PER STUDENT. NOW, MY INSTITUTION IS KNOWN AS A PREPARER OF TEACHERS FOR THE STATE OF IOWA. OVER 40 PERCENT OF THE TEACHERS IN IOWA COME OUT OF MY SCHOOL. THEY START TYPICALLY IN THE LOW TWENTIES. NOW, IMAGINE STARTING YOUR FIRST JOB WITH $20,000 WORTH OF DEBT, APPROXIMATELY EQUAL TO YOUR ENTIRE FIRST YEAR'S SALARY.
Yepsen: DR. KOOB, WHAT SHOULD THAT BALANCE BE? WHAT SHOULD THE PUBLIC CONTRIBUTION BE VERSUS WHAT THE STUDENT'S SHOULD BE?
Koob: I THINK IT DEPENDS ENTIRELY ON WHAT THE PUBLIC IS WILLING TO SUPPORT.
Yepsen: FIFTY-FIFTY?
Koob: FIFTY-FIFTY IF THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC THINKS IS APPROPRIATE. MY PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT IT. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF FINGER-POINTING. WE'VE SAID, "OKAY, WELL, YOU CAN AFFORD IT. IT SHOULD GO UP." THE FACT IS THAT THERE'S TRUE PUBLIC BENEFIT AND THERE'S TRUE PRIVATE BENEFIT, AND I THINK THAT AN INTELLIGENT RESOLUTION OF THIS WOULD BE FOR THE TAXPAYERS TO SAY IN SOME FORM -- AND I HOPE IT WOULD OCCUR IN THE LEGISLATURE -- THAT WE NEED TO SET A TARGET FOR THAT. WE NEED TO SET A TARGET FOR WHAT THAT PUBLIC/PRIVATE BALANCE OUGHT TO BE. WE'LL LIVE WITH IT, WHATEVER. OBVIOUSLY WE CAN ADJUST. I MEAN WE HAVE, RIGHT?
Dorman: DR. KOOB, WE'VE HEARD SO MUCH OVER THE YEARS ABOUT UNIVERSITIES TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STOP DUPLICATIONS AND SAVE DOLLARS. WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT? IS PROGRESS BEING MADE?
Koob: PROGRESS WAS MADE -- ACTUALLY, THIS PROBLEM WAS SOLVED, IN MY OPINION, IN THE LATE '80S, EARLY '90S. THE ADOPTION BY THIS BOARD OF REGENTS OF A STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS THAT SAID YOU ARE NOW GOING TO BE ACCOUNTABLE AND YOU'LL BE ACCOUNTABLE TO US IN TERMS OF WHAT IT COSTS TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EDUCATION, VIRTUALLY ELIMINATED ANY, WHAT I'LL CALL, UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION. THE EXAMPLE THAT I'LL USE INVOLVES MY OWN INSTITUTION, TEACHERS WE JUST -- WE HAVE A SCHOOL AT IOWA STATE, WHICH IS ABOUT HALF THE SIZE OF MINE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT GRADUATE, AND THE SCHOOL AT IOWA WHICH IS ABOUT HALF AGAIN THE SIZE OF THAT AT IOWA STATE. MINE IS 3,000. IOWA STATE IS ABOUT 1,500, MAYBE 800 OR SO AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA. ANY PROGRAM WITH 800 MAJORS IN IT ISN'T UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION. I MEAN THE FACT IS THAT IF YOU WERE TO TAKE THOSE TWO INSTITUTIONS AND TAKE THEIR PROGRAMS AWAY AND PUT THEM IN MINE, I'D HAVE TO BUILD A FACILITY DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE ONE I HAVE JUST TO HANDLE IT. I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS SUGGESTION THAT SOMEHOW HAVING MULTIPLE BANKS IN A COMMUNITY IS HEALTHY COMPETITION BUT HAVING MULTIPLE PROGRAMS IN EDUCATION IS DUPLICATION. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
Yepsen: MR. DOWNER, YOU'RE A RELATIVELY NEW REGENT. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF DUPLICATION GOING FORWARD? DO YOU -- WE TALKED ABOUT PUBLIC RADIO. DO YOU SEE OTHER PLACES PROSPECTIVELY WHERE THE REGENTS ARE GOING TO SAY TO THE STATE UNIVERSITIES "KNOCK OFF THE DUPLICATION?"
Downer: THERE ARE SOME PROGRAMS AT INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE QUITE SMALL THAT I THINK NEED TO BE SERIOUSLY LOOKED AT. HOWEVER, THE THREE THAT ARE MOST FREQUENTLY TALKED ABOUT, THE BUSINESS AND EDUCATION COLLEGES AT ALL THREE INSTITUTIONS AND THE COLLEGES OF ENGINEERING AT IOWA AND IOWA STATE, I THINK ARE ALL JUSTIFIED AND THEY FIT INTO THE LONG-TERM BEST INTERESTS OF THE STATE OF IOWA. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROGRESS ECONOMICALLY AS A STATE IF WE DON'T HAVE AN ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF BUSINESS AND THE ENGINEERING GRADUATES. AT THE SAME TIME, I SEE STATISTICS TO THE EFFECT THAT THE DEMOGRAPHIC OF K-12 TEACHERS IS AGING AND WE'RE GOING TO BE NEEDING TO REPLACE A LOT OF THOSE TEACHERS WITHIN THE COMING DECADE. AND I THINK THAT ALL THREE OF THESE INSTITUTIONS FIT INTO MEETING THOSE NEEDS. AND WITH RESPECT TO THOSE THREE PROGRAMS, I'M SATISFIED THAT THEY ARE JUSTIFIED AS THEY ARE PRESENTLY CONSTITUTED AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSOLIDATED.
Yepsen: QUICK QUESTION, KAY.
Henderson: WE HAVEN'T MUCH TIME LEFT. WHAT'S THE STATE OF THE STUDENTS COMING INTO YOUR INSTITUTION? ARE K-12 SCHOOLS IN IOWA DOING A GOOD ENOUGH JOB SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TEACH REMEDIAL CLASSES?
Koob: WE HAVEN'T TAUGHT REMEDIAL CLASSES IN THE ENTIRE TIME I'VE BEEN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN IOWA. I CAME TO IOWA FROM CALIFORNIA. THERE I ACCEPTED ABOUT THE TOP 10 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS, AND I HAD ABOUT A THIRD OF THEM UNDERGOING REMEDIAL EDUCATION. HERE IN IOWA, I ACCEPT THE TOP 50 PERCENT AND I DON'T NEED REMEDIAL EDUCATION. IOWA SCHOOLS ARE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB.
Yepsen: MR. DOWNER, SAME QUESTION TO YOU. IOWA SCHOOLS DOING ALL RIGHT?
Downer: I BELIEVE SO. I THINK THAT THE STUDENTS WHO ARE COMING INTO THE UNIVERSITIES ARE BEING WELL PREPARED, AND I THINK THE UNIVERSITIES ARE CARRYING FORWARD WITH THE EDUCATIONAL NEEDS OF THOSE STUDENTS AND THAT THEY ARE GOING INTO THE WORKFORCE WELL PREPARED.
Yepsen: GENTLEMEN, WE'RE OUT OF TIME. ALWAYS WAY TOO MANY QUESTIONS AND NOT ENOUGH TIME, BUT WE DO APPRECIATE YOU TAKING TIME TO BE WITH US TODAY.
Koob: THANK YOU.
Downer: MY PLEASURE.
Yepsen: NOW, ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WE CONTINUE WITH OUR FOCUS ON EDUCATION, AND THE SPOTLIGHT SHIFTS TO IOWA'S COMMUNITY AND PRIVATE COLLEGES. JOINING US HERE AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE ARE DR. ROBERT DENSON, PRESIDENT OF THE DES MOINES AREA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND DR. DAVID MAXWELL, PRESIDENT OF DRAKE UNIVERSITY. WE DISCUSS HIGHER EDUCATION WITH DR. DENSON AND DR. MAXWELL FRIDAY AT 6:30 P.M. NOTE THE TIME CHANGE. AND I HOPE YOU'LL BE JOINING US AT THAT TIME. I'M DAVID YEPSEN OF "THE DES MOINES REGISTER" SITTING IN FOR DEAN BORG ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.
FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION;
AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. |
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