Iowa Public Television

IOWA PRESS #3129 >>

Yepsen: IOWA HAS 15 COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND 31 PRIVATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES. WE GET A STATUS REPORT AND LOOK TO THE FUTURE WITH ROBERT DENSON, PRESIDENT OF THE DES MOINES AREA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND DR. DAVID MAXWELL, PRESIDENT OF DRAKE UNIVERSITY, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS."

FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA, THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, MARCH 19 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DAVID YEPSEN.

Yepsen: GOOD EVENING. THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS" IS THE THIRD OF THREE CONSECUTIVE PROGRAMS TO FOCUS ON EDUCATION IN IOWA. TWO WEEKS AGO WE DISCUSSED K-12 SCHOOLS WITH TED STILWILL, DIRECTOR OF THE IOWA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. LAST WEEKEND WE FOCUSED ON THE STATE UNIVERSITIES, AND JOINING US WERE DR. ROBERT KOOB, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN IOWA IN CEDAR FALLS, AND ATTORNEY BOB DOWNER OF IOWA CITY, A MEMBER OF THE STATE BOARD OF REGENTS. WELL, THIS WEEK OUR FOCUS CONTINUES ON HIGHER EDUCATION, BUT OUR SPOTLIGHT SHIFTS TO IOWA'S COMMUNITY COLLEGE SYSTEM AND TO THE STATE'S PRIVATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES. HERE AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE ARE ROBERT DENSON, THE NEWLY INSTALLED PRESIDENT OF THE DES MOINES AREA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND DR. DAVID MAXWELL, PRESIDENT OF DRAKE UNIVERSITY AND THE INCOMING CHAIRMAN OF THE IOWA ASSOCIATION OF INDEPENDENT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION AND TO "IOWA PRESS." IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

Denson: THANK YOU.

Maxwell: IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE.

Yepsen: ALSO WITH US AT THE "IOWA PRESS" TABLE ARE TODD DORMAN, CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF WITH "THE LEE NEWSPAPERS," AND KAY HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR WITH "RADIO IOWA."

Henderson: MR. DENSON, LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU. A CONDITION REPORT, IF YOU WILL, OF THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES OF THIS STATE.

Denson: I THINK WE'RE DOING VERY WELL. AS YOU LOOK AT THE ENROLLMENT, WE CONTINUE TO GROW. THIS PAST FALL THERE WERE 79,000 STUDENTS IN IOWA'S COMMUNITY COLLEGES. WE GENERATE ABOUT 112,000 UNDUPLICATED HEAD COUNT PER YEAR; 95 PERCENT ARE IOWA STUDENTS THAT COME TO THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES. AND EACH OF THE COLLEGES REALLY IS BUILT TO RESPOND TO THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITIES THEY SERVE. DMACC, WE HAVE 11 COUNTIES, 6,550 SQUARE MILES AND 23 PERCENT OF IOWA'S POPULATION. AND THE SUCCESSES WE'VE HAD HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED THROUGHOUT THE STATE IN THE OTHER 14 COMMUNITY COLLEGES. WE WORK TOGETHER AS A SYSTEM, AND I THINK WE DO A GOOD JOB FOR IOWA.

Henderson: DR. MAXWELL, WHAT'S THE STATUS OF THE STATE'S PRIVATE COLLEGES?

Maxwell: I THINK IT'S ALSO -- IT'S EQUALLY GOOD: WE'VE EXPERIENCED A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN APPLICATIONS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AS A GROUP AND ENROLLMENTS; STRONG SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY PHILANTHROPICALLY; I THINK INCREASING INTEREST IN ALL INSTITUTIONS FROM IOWA STUDENTS AS WELL AS OUT-OF-STATE STUDENTS. WE'RE HAVING GOOD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE AND I THINK HAVE GREAT PROMISE.

Henderson: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MISSION OF COLLEGES SUCH AS YOURS. IN AN ERA IN WHICH BUSINESSES ARE DEMANDING TECHNICAL SKILLS OF EMPLOYEES IN ALL AREAS, HOW DOES A BROAD LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION FIT WITHIN THAT CONTEXT?

Maxwell: WELL, I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THAT CONTEXT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S DISTINCTIVE ABOUT DRAKE IN PARTICULAR, BUT I THINK THAT ALL OF US IN THE PRIVATES TRY TO ADDRESS IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, IS TO, IN A SENSE, REFUSE TO GIVE INTO THIS TRADITIONAL DISTINCTION BETWEEN PROFESSIONAL PREPARATION AND LIBERAL ARTS AND SCIENCES EDUCATION. WE'RE PART OF A 20-UNIVERSITY NATIONAL GROUP CALLED THE ASSOCIATED NEW AMERICAN COLLEGES THAT VERY DELIBERATELY AND VERY SYSTEMATICALLY INTEGRATES THE BEST OF PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION -- OR PROFESSIONAL PREPARATION WITH LIBERAL ARTS AND SCIENCES EDUCATION. THEY'RE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE ISSUES AND I THINK IT'S CLEAR, WITH THE COMPLEXITY OF TODAY'S WORKPLACE, THAT STUDENTS NEED TECHNICAL ABILITIES, KNOWLEDGE, AND TRAINING. BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO BE EDUCATED, AND WE THINK WE CAN DO BOTH OF THEM. WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Dorman: WELL, MR. DENSON, THERE ARE SOME FOLKS AT THE STATEHOUSE WHO THINK THAT COMMUNITY COLLEGES SHOULD BE MORE FOCUSED ON TECHNICAL ASPECTS -- TECHNICAL TRAINING, KIND OF THE ENGINE OF THE NEW ECONOMY, AND MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE A DE-EMPHASIS ON THE COLLEGE PREP ASPECT OF YOUR INSTITUTION. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

Denson: WELL, QUITE FRANKLY, EVEN OUR VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS, EMPLOYERS HAVE TOLD US -- WE JUST FINISHED A SURVEY OF 49 COMPANIES IN OUR AREA -- AND THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE SYSTEM HAS DONE THIS STATEWIDE -- THAT IN ADDITION TO THE HARD SKILLS -- THE WELDING, THE NURSING, THE COMPUTER SKILLS -- ALL EMPLOYERS WANT GRADUATES TO COME TO THE TABLE WITH FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL MATH, ENGLISH, COMMUNICATION, AND OTHER SOFT SKILLS. SO THESE ARE THE STUDENT SKILLS THAT ARE NEEDED WHETHER THEY COME TO DMACC FOR TWO YEARS AND GO INTO THE JOB FORCE OR GO TO DRAKE OR IOWA STATE OR ANY OTHER INSTITUTION. SO WE PROVIDE THE COURSES THAT EVERYONE NEEDS, WHETHER YOU'RE A VOCATIONAL STUDENT OR A COLLEGE TRANSFER. THE FACT THAT THEY'RE TRANSFERABLE TO THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS, PRIVATE OR PUBLIC, IS JUST TESTIMONY TO THE KIND OF QUALITY WE DO IN THOSE PROGRAMS. VOCATIONAL STUDENTS NEED THE SAME HIGH-LEVEL MATH, ENGLISH, COMMUNICATION SKILLS AS STUDENTS THAT ARE GOING ON TO BE A LAWYER, A DOCTOR, OR ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE IT'S NEEDED IN THE WORK FORCE, IT'S NEEDED FOR LIFE. Dorman: WELL, IF YOU'RE FULFILLING THAT COLLEGE PREPARATORY MISSION SO WELL, MAYBE IT WOULD BE SMART FOR COMMUNITY COLLEGES TO TAKE OVER SOME OF THOSE GENERAL ED CLASSES FROM STATE UNIVERSITIES. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

Denson: WELL, QUITE FRANKLY, WE PARTNER IN A LOT OF VERY GOOD WAYS. I MEAN WE'RE ABLE AT IOWA STATE, FOR EXAMPLE, TO OFFER SOME OF THESE CLASSES WHEN IOWA STATE CAN'T. WE OFFER ABOUT 60 SECTIONS PER YEAR IN THE SCHOOLS UP THERE. WE'RE TEACHING COLLEGE-LEVEL WORK TO HIGH SCHOOL AND IOWA STATE STUDENTS WHO CAN'T WORK IT INTO THEIR SCHEDULE OTHERWISE. SO WE'VE GOT IT -- WE HAVE A GREAT PARTNERSHIP. WE DO THE SAME WITH THE PRIVATE COLLEGES: GREATER ARTICULATION AGREEMENTS; OUR STUDENTS PRETTY MUCH ACROSS THE BOARD WILL TRANSFER AS JUNIORS AND SENIORS TO PUBLIC OR PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS; ALL THEIR CREDITS TRANSFER. IT'S JUST A GREAT PARTNERSHIP. IF THERE'S ONE GOOD THING FROM ALL OF THE FINANCIAL ISSUES THE STATE OF IOWA HAS FACED, IT HAS REALLY FORCED US ALL TO COME TO THE TABLE TO LOOK FOR CREATIVE WAYS TO DELIVER EDUCATION, AND I THINK IOWA CONTINUES TO LEAD THE NATION. I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT IOWA EDUCATION. BUT REGARDLESS OF THE ECONOMIC SITUATION, WE'VE GOT THE MANPOWER AND LEADERSHIP HERE AS A GROUP -- PUBLIC, PRIVATE, AND COMMUNITY COLLEGES -- TO MAKE SOMETHING EXCITING HAPPEN.

Yepsen: WELL, MR. DENSON, LET'S FOCUS ON THAT A MINUTE. THE QUESTION I HAVE IS WHETHER WE HAVE AN OVERBUILT SYSTEM OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN THIS STATE. WE HAVE 3 STATE UNIVERSITIES, 15 COMMUNITY COLLEGES, 31 PRIVATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES. PER CAPITA SPENDING ON HIGHER EDUCATION IN THIS STATE, ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS BUREAU, IS ABOUT FOURTH IN THE COUNTRY. CAN'T YOU FOLKS DO A LITTLE BETTER JOB IN COORDINATING AND FOCUSING YOUR MISSIONS?

Denson: I THINK WE DO A GOOD JOB. IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK AT ANY OF OUR SECTORS, MOST OF OUR SECTORS ARE AT CAPACITY. WE CONTINUE TO GROW, THE REGENTS CONTINUE TO GROW, THE PRIVATE COLLEGES CONTINUE TO GROW, AND I THINK WHERE WE'RE MISSING THE BOAT AS A STATE IS WE NEED TO SEE EDUCATION AS A COMMODITY. WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WILL BE COMING TO IOWA FOR A QUALITY EDUCATION IF WE DELIVER QUALITY.

Yepsen: EXCUSE ME. CAN WE BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE? TAKE JOURNALISM EDUCATION, SOMETHING I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT. WE'VE GOT JOURNALISM COURSES ALL OVER CENTRAL IOWA: IOWA STATE, YOU FOLKS, THE PRIVATE COLLEGES. WHY DON'T YOU -- WHY DON'T YOU SORT OUT AMONG YOURSELVES JUST WHO'S DOING WHAT, PROVIDE A BETTER EDUCATION, AND SAVE THE TAXPAYERS AND THE STUDENTS SOME MONEY?

Denson: WELL, I THINK RIGHT NOW WE'RE PROVIDING A GOOD EDUCATION EVERYWHERE JOURNALISM IS TAUGHT, AND THOSE CLASSES ARE GENERALLY FULL. I KNOW IN OUR BUSINESS OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES, IF THERE AREN'T ENOUGH CLASSES -- THERE AREN'T ENOUGH STUDENTS TO FILL THE CLASS, THAT CLASS DOES NOT GO. I MEAN WE ARE MARKET DRIVEN, SO AS LONG AS THERE IS DEMAND FOR THAT KIND OF EDUCATION, WE'RE PROVIDING IT. SO THE NUMBERS ARE THERE, THE QUALITY IS THERE, AND THERE REALLY IS NO SINGLE INSTITUTION THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT CAN REALLY DELIVER EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE IN A COORDINATED MANNER, AT LEAST TRANSPORTATION-WISE.

Yepsen: DR. MAXWELL, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS OF DUPLICATION AND OVERBUILT SYSTEM COSTS?

Maxwell: I THINK IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE, AND I AGREE WITH MUCH OF ROB'S RESPONSE. I THINK THE KEY ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT THE PROGRAMS AT OUR INSTITUTIONS HAVE STUDENT DEMAND. ALL OF US HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD BE OFFERING PROGRAMS BASED ON SERVING OUR STUDENTS. IF THERE ARE AREAS IN THE STATE IN THE SYSTEM, BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE, AND WHERE THERE IS DUPLICATION AND UNDERENROLLMENT, I THINK THEN THE INSTITUTION SHOULD BE LOOKING VERY SERIOUSLY AT THAT. AND I THINK WE ALL DO THAT ON REGULAR BASIS. IF THE PROGRAMS ARE FILLED TO CAPACITY, THEN I THINK THE DUPLICATION ISN'T AS MUCH OF AN ISSUE. ANOTHER PART OF THAT, THOUGH, IS THAT I THINK THERE IS A DISTINCTION BETWEEN, LET'S SAY, UNDERGRADUATE PROGRAMS AND GRADUATE PROGRAMS, GENERAL EDUCATION PROGRAMS VERSUS PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMS. AS I THINK BOB KOOB SAID IN OTHER CONTEXT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, YOU HAVE A LOT OF STUDENTS WHO COME INTO COLLEGE AS FRESHMEN, NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IT IS THEY WANT TO MAJOR IN, AND NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THEIR INTERESTS ARE. SO TO SAY, WELL, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED -- YOU HAVE TO KNOW AT THE AGE OF 17 WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN PHILOSOPHY OR BIOLOGY BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO DETERMINE WHICH SCHOOL YOU END UP GOING TO IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON STUDENT CHOICE, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR. SO I THINK THE CRITICAL ISSUE IS FOR US TO BE LOOKING AT STUDENT DEMAND ON OUR CAMPUSES AND MAKING SURE THAT IF WE HAVE JOURNALISM AND IOWA STATE HAS JOURNALISM, THAT OUR PROGRAMS ARE FULLY ENROLLED AND FULLY SUPPORTING THEMSELVES. AND I THINK IN MOST CASES THAT WOULD BE TRUE.

Henderson: DR. MAXWELL, IN AN ERA OF TIGHT BUDGET TIMES, THERE ARE THOSE AT THE STATEHOUSE WHO ARGUE THAT THE STATE SHOULD NOT BE EXTENDING TUITION GRANTS TO STUDENTS WHO ATTEND A PRIVATE INSTITUTION, THAT THAT MONEY SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND ON THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT POSITION?

Maxwell: NEGATIVE, AS YOU MIGHT EXPECT. I THINK IT'S A VERY NARROW VIEW, AND I UNDERSTAND -- FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT ALL OF US IN ALL THREE SECTORS FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BE PUT UP ONE AGAINST THE OTHER, THAT I DON'T WANT THE PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS TO GET ANYTHING MORE OF THE EXPENSE OF THE PUBLICS OR THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES --

Yepsen: THAT'S OFTEN THE WAY POLITICS AND RESOURCE ALLOCATION WORKS.

Maxwell: I RECOGNIZE THAT AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE AND THERE ARE SOME TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE MADE. BUT THE REALITY OF THE IOWA TUITION GRANT -- AND WE'VE JUST HAD SOME VERY STRONG SUPPORT FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR IN INCREASING THE ALLOCATION FOR NEXT YEAR, FOR WHICH WE'RE VERY GRATEFUL. THE IOWA TUITION GRANT IS A HUGE BANG FOR THE BUCK. IT'S ONLY 5 PERCENT OF THE STATE'S EDUCATION BUDGET, BUT IT AFFECTS ABOUT 15,000 STUDENTS ANNUALLY ACROSS THE STATE WHO ARE ABLE TO PURSUE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO OTHERWISE. SO IT'S $46-, $47 MILLION, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT IT'S 5 PERCENT OF THE OVERALL BUDGET, AND IT'S AFFECTING A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE NUMBER OF STUDENTS. SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, IT'S CERTAINLY WORTH IT IN TERMS OF THE STATE'S ECONOMIC INTEREST. Dorman: WELL, MR. DENSON, THERE ARE ALSO FOLKS AT THE STATEHOUSE WHO ARE CONCERNED THAT COMMUNITY COLLEGE TUITION HAS GROWN TOO MUCH, THAT IOWA'S COST IS AMONG THE NATION'S HIGHEST, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOUR ENROLLMENTS ARE AT RECORD LEVELS. WHAT'S THE REAL -- IS THERE A PROBLEM AND WHAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

Denson: WELL, OBVIOUSLY, WE WOULD LIKE TUITION TO BE LOWER THAN THE STATE AID. RIGHT NOW TUITION FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS PAID A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF OUR OPERATING BUDGET THAN STATE AID. NO HIGHER ED SYSTEM WAS DEVELOPED TO SEE THAT HAPPEN, SO WE'RE HOPING THAT CAN TURN AROUND. BUT STUDENTS ARE CONSUMERS AND THEY'RE GOING TO FOLLOW QUALITY. I CAME FROM FIVE YEARS IN NORTHEAST IOWA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN THE STATE AS FAR AS TUITION. WE GREW 58 PERCENT IN FIVE YEARS. AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE QUALITY PRODUCT AND LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS, STUDENTS WILL COME TO YOU. AND I THINK AS LONG AS IOWA CONTINUES TO FOCUS ON QUALITY, WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO VERY WELL. AND WE ARE COMPETITIVE IN THE MARKETPLACE, SO I THINK WE'LL DO WELL.

Yepsen: HOW GOOD A JOB ARE YOU DOING -- AND I'LL START WITH YOU, DR. MAXWELL. I'M TOLD THAT 30 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS AT DMACC HAVE B.A. DEGREES AND THEY'VE GONE BACK TO SCHOOL TO GET SOME SORT OF TRAINING SO THEY CAN GET A JOB. NOW, HOW GOOD A JOB IS HIGHER EDUCATION DOING FOCUSING STUDENTS AND GETTING THEM INTO THE PROPER PROGRAMS SO THEY'RE NOT WASTING TIME IN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT THEY DON'T NEED?

Maxwell: I'M TEMPTED TO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE NOTION OF WASTING TIME IN GETTING AN EDUCATION, BUT I WON'T DO THAT. BUT I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

Yepsen: OH, SO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY FOR SOMEBODY TO GO GET A B.A. AND FIND THEY CAN'T GET A JOB AND SO THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO DMACC TO GET TRAINING?

Maxwell: NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND MY SENSE IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING BACK TO SCHOOL FOR MORE PROFESSIONAL TRAINING ARE NOT THERE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET A JOB BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE DISCOVERED IN THE COURSE OF THEIR JOBS OR THEIR CAREERS THAT OTHER KINDS OF TRAINING OR MORE ADVANCED TRAINING WILL HELP THEM MOVE SOMEWHERE IN THEIR CAREER THAT THEY WANT TO. OVERALL, THE JOB PLACEMENT, GRADUATE SCHOOL PLACEMENT RATE FOR THE PRIVATES IS VERY GOOD. OUR RATE AT DRAKE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, ROUGHLY 97 PERCENT OF OUR GRADUATES HAVE HAD A JOB PLACEMENT IN THEIR CAREER FIELD OR A GRADUATE SCHOOL ACCEPTANCE WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF GRADUATION. SO THEY'RE MAKING GOOD CHOICES AND THEY'RE IN THE RIGHT PROGRAMS, AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE FOR THE MAJORITY OF US. I WOULDN'T TAKE THE ADULT RETURN TO PROFESSIONAL TRAINING AND EDUCATION AS A SIGN THAT THEY DIDN'T GET WHAT THEY NEEDED EARLIER. I THINK IT'S MORE A PROCESS OF DISCOVERING NEW NEEDS AS THEY GO ALONG IN THEIR CAREERS AND WANTING TO ADVANCE. Dorman: WELL, MR. DENSON, YOUR STATE FUNDING HAS BEEN CUT. TUITIONS HAVE GONE UP TO A POINT WHERE FOLKS ARE BECOMING UNCOMFORTABLE. IS THE PROBLEM THAT YOUR LOCAL -- THE AMOUNT OF LOCAL TAXES THAT YOU CAN COLLECT IS TOO LOW? DOES SOMETHING NEED TO HAPPEN TO ALLOW YOU TO TAP THAT RESOURCE?

Denson: WE THINK SO. ABOUT 5.8 PERCENT OF OUR OPERATING BUDGET IS FROM PROPERTY TAX. YOU LOOK AT THE STATES THAT TOUCH IOWA, THEIR OPERATING BUDGETS ARE COVERED ABOUT 40 PERCENT FROM LOCAL PROPERTY TAX. OURS HAVE BEEN STABLE SINCE 1966 OR AT THE SAME LEVEL, AND WE BELIEVE THAT IS ONE AREA WHERE WE COULD RECEIVE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT. THE LEGISLATIVE SERVICE BUREAU JUST DID A STUDY THAT FROM 1990 TO 2003, WE'RE ACTUALLY RECEIVING $95 LESS PER STUDENT IN 2003 THAN WE WERE IN 1990. THOSE ARE NOT INFLATED DOLLARS. THOSE ARE JUST DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR. $11 OF THAT DECREASE IS FROM STATE AID. THE REST OF IT IS FROM A DECREASE IN THE PROPERTY TAX AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR BUDGET. SO WE WOULD LIKE MORE SUPPORT IN THAT AREA. WE ARE MANAGED BY BOARDS OF TRUSTEES THAT ARE ELECTED BY THE PUBLIC. THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS. WE WOULD LIKE THEM TO HAVE THE AUTHORITY BASED UPON THEIR DISTRICT'S NEED TO DECIDE TO RAISE PROPERTY TAX AT LEAST TO SOME CAP SO THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO DO MORE, NOT ONLY TO REDUCE TUITION, BUT WE NEED TO EXPAND OUR VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS. MOST OF DMACC'S VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS ARE ALREADY AT CAPACITY FOR FALL. WE NEED MORE DENTAL HYGIENIST PROGRAMS, MORE NURSING PROGRAMS, MORE COMPUTER, WELDING, BUT THEY'RE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. IN THIS ECONOMY, WE CAN'T AFFORD TO MANAGE MUCH MORE THAN ONE SECTION WITH THE KINDS OF COSTS, SO WE THINK THE PROPERTY TAX AREA IS ONE AREA WHERE WE COULD HAVE GROWTH. AND AS I SPEAK TO COMMUNITIES ALL THROUGHOUT OUR DISTRICT, BOTH NORTHEAST IOWA AND DES MOINES, THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY GET A GOOD RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT FROM THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND IT'S TRUE FOR THE PRIVATES AND REGENTS ALSO. I THINK THEY'D BE WILLING TO PAY MORE, BECAUSE ABOUT 1.8 PERCENT OF YOUR PROPERTY TAXES COMES TO YOUR COMMUNITY COLLEGE. THAT'S VERY LOW.

Yepsen: ONE AREA -- EXCUSE ME, GO AHEAD. Dorman: I WAS GOING TO SAY ONE -- A LOT OF PROPERTY TAXPAYERS FEEL THEY'RE ALREADY PAYING A LOT FOR EDUCATION. AREN'T YOU BEING PUT IN A POSITION BY LAWMAKERS THAT THEY'VE DECIDED THAT K-12 IS WHERE THE RESOURCES NEED TO GO, WHERE MOST OF THE PROPERTY TAXES NEED TO GO, AND YOU'RE KIND OF GETTING LEFT OUT OF THE LOOP?

Denson: I THINK IN REALITY THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT'S HAPPENING, BUT THERE ARE GREAT NEEDS AT THE K-12 LEVEL. AND AGAIN, DAVE IS RIGHT, WE'RE NOT -- THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES ARE NOT AFTER THE K-12 MONEY OR THE PRIVATE COLLEGE OR THE REGENTS INSTITUTIONS. WE ALL PROVIDE VALUABLE SERVICES. OUR MISSIONS ARE PRETTY WELL SEPARATE. THERE IS SOME OVERLAP BUT, AGAIN, AS LONG AS THERE IS DEMAND, IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

Henderson: I'VE HEARD COMMUNITY COLLEGE FOLKS ARGUE THAT MAYBE AN INCOME SURTAX COLLECTED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL OR MAYBE A LITTLE PORTION OF THAT LOCAL OPTION SALES TAX THAT'S BEING COLLECTED SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO YOUR INSTITUTIONS.

Denson: A LOT OF PLANS HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE TABLE. WE BELIEVE THAT THE MOST STABLE SOURCE WOULD BE SOME ADDITIONAL PROPERTY TAXING AUTHORITY UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF OUR LOCALLY ELECTED BOARDS. AGAIN, LOCAL CONTROL DOES WORK. IT WORKS FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. IT WORKS GREAT FOR COMMUNITY COLLEGES.

Henderson: DR. MAXWELL, THERE'S A MOVE AFOOT IN WASHINGTON, D.C., TO CHANGE THE INTEREST RATES ON STUDENT LOANS, WHEREBY IT WOULD BE A VARIABLE RATE AS OPPOSED TO A FIXED RATE. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ABOUT THAT PROPOSAL?

Maxwell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orman: LET'S TALK ABOUT COLLEGE ATHLETICS FOR A MOMENT. YOUR INSTITUTIONS ARE IN DIFFERENT STATUS IN THAT ISSUE. COMMUNITY COLLEGES ARE SOMETIMES PORTRAYED AS A PLACE WHERE ATHLETES WITHOUT THE ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS THAT GET INTO A LARGER SCHOOLS OFTEN GO TO PLAY. YOUR SCHOOL HAS HIGHER ACADEMIC STANDARDS THAN MANY OF YOUR PEER INSTITUTIONS. I GUESS, WHERE DO YOU BOTH SEE THE ROLE OF ATHLETICS IN COLLEGES? I'LL START WITH YOU, DR. MAXWELL.

Maxwell: WELL, I THINK ATHLETICS PLAYS A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN AN INSTITUTION LIKE DRAKE, FROM A VARIETY OF PERSPECTIVES, AND MOST IMPORTANT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF THE ATHLETES THEMSELVES. AND I THINK THAT AS WE LOOK AT THE KINDS OF HABITS OF MIND, INTELLECTUAL SKILLS, AND ABILITIES THAT WE HOPE COME OUT OF A DRAKE EDUCATION THAT IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT FOR A NUMBER OF OUR STUDENTS THEY DEVELOP VERY STRONG LEADERSHIP ABILITY, THE ABILITY TO COLLABORATE AND WORK IN GROUPS THAT IS AN IMPORTANT EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE. IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THEY CARE DEEPLY ABOUT. KIDS PLAYING AT A DIVISION I LEVEL HAVE BEEN PASSIONATE ABOUT THAT SPORT SINCE THEY WERE FIVE YEARS OLD. SO THEY THE KEY THING FOR US IS THE QUALITY OF EXPERIENCE FOR THE ATHLETES AND THE INTEGRATION OF THAT EXPERIENCE INTO THE ACADEMIC FABRIC OF THE INSTITUTION. IT'S -- IT DOESN'T PLAY -- WELL, IT PLAYS A ROLE, CERTAINLY, IN MAKING THE INSTITUTION VISIBLE, IN PROVIDING A SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT VENUE FOR THE COMMUNITY, PROVIDING CONNECTION WITH THE COMMUNITY. BUT AS WITH MOST THINGS WE DO, THE KEY ISSUE FOR US IS THE EXPERIENCE OF THE STUDENTS THEMSELVES.

Yepsen: ISN'T THE KEY ISSUE REALLY RAISING MONEY FOR THE SCHOOL?

Maxwell: NO, NOT AT OUR LEVEL BECAUSE IT'S --

Yepsen: YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF ALUMS WHO GET TICKETS AND THEN WRITE YOU A CHECK?

Maxwell: I'M SURE WE DO HAVE A LOT OF ALUMS WHO -- BUT STILL, FOR MOST INSTITUTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES, IT COSTS MONEY TO DO DIVISION I ATHLETICS. THERE ARE REALLY JUST A HANDFUL OF INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE FOOTBALL REVENUES OR BOWL REVENUES OR WHATEVER THAT THEY CLAIM THAT THEY'RE PUMPING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE LIBRARY BUDGET FROM THE FOOTBALL TEAM. FOR MOST OF US, IT'S SOMETHING WE DO THAT'S IMPORTANT THAT COSTS THE INSTITUTION MONEY. Dorman: YOU'VE HAD HIGHER ACADEMIC STANDARDS, AND IN THE PAST THAT'S LED TO SOME CONTROVERSY. HAVE YOU FELT PRESSURED TO LOWER THOSE STANDARDS TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE TO WIN?

Maxwell: THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENCOURAGED US TO LOOK DIFFERENTLY AT HOW THOSE STANDARDS ARE APPLIED. I THINK THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO THINK WE SHOULD LOWER OUR STANDARDS. AT DRAKE THERE ARE 145 MASTERS INSTITUTIONS IN THE MIDWEST AND WE ARE CONSISTENTLY RANKED NUMBER ONE IN ACADEMIC QUALITY, SO I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS URGING US TO LOWER OUR STANDARDS. BUT THERE HAS BEEN SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER YOU INVOKE THOSE STANDARDS EVERY SEMESTER OR JUST EVERY SUMMER, AS THE NCAA REQUIRES. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT I THINK THAT THOSE OF US AT DRAKE AND OUR SUPPORTERS FEEL THAT YOU CAN FIELD COMPETITIVE DIVISION I TEAMS WITH KIDS WHO GRADUATE AND WHO GET A GOOD EDUCATION, AND I THINK WE'RE DOING THAT.

Yepsen: MR. DENSON, COMMUNITY COLLEGE ATHLETICS?

Denson: WE HAVE SIX MAJOR CAMPUSES AT DMACC. BOONE IS THE ONLY CAMPUS THAT HAS ATHLETICS. AGAIN, WE'RE COMMUNITY BASED. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO BOONE. I GO TO THE BASKETBALL GAMES. THEY ARE PACKED. IT'S GREAT FOR THE COMMUNITY. IT'S GREAT FOR OUR STUDENTS. I'M NOT SO INTERESTED IN HOW STUDENTS DO WHEN THEY'RE COMING IN; I'M WONDERING HOW MANY GRADUATE. I KNOW WE JUST SAW THE NUMBERS ON OUR BASEBALL PROGRAM; 90 PERCENT OF OUR STUDENTS OVER TIME FINISH THE PROGRAM AND GRADUATE. WE'RE ABOUT OPPORTUNITY AND CREATING SUCCESS, EVEN SOMETIMES WHEN IT MAY NOT LOOK GOOD COMING IN. IF THOSE STUDENTS ARE GRADUATING, WE'RE DOING OUR JOB. AND IF WE'RE WINNING, THE PRESIDENT IS HAPPY.

Henderson: MR. DENSON, ON THIS PROGRAM LAST WEEK, DR. KOOB FROM UNI SAID HIS INSTITUTION IS NO LONGER TEACHING REMEDIAL CLASSES BECAUSE THE IOWA HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WHICH ARE GOING TO HIS INSTITUTION ARE PREPARED. DO YOU FIND THAT IOWA HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO ARE ENROLLING IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES ARE PREPARED, OR DO YOU HAVE TO TEACH REMEDIAL CLASSES?

Denson: WE HAVE PROBABLY FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF DEVELOPMENTAL COURSES, AND WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO SEE THOSE STUDENTS COME IN BECAUSE YOU CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVES. A NUMBER OF OUR STUDENTS THAT COME TO US, THEY PICK UP THEIR SKILLS IN MATH, COMMUNICATION, ENGLISH, THEY TRANSFER ON TO DRAKE OR IOWA STATE, GRAND VIEW, AND THEY DO FAIRLY WELL. WE COMPARE THEM PRETTY WELL TO HOW JUNIORS AND SENIORS FROM THOSE INSTITUTIONS DO AS FAR AS GRADUATION RATES AND GRADES. SO WE'RE JUST GLAD THOSE STUDENTS COME TO US TO PICK UP THEIR SKILLS. REMEDIATION SHOULD NOT BE AS BIG AN ISSUE AS SOME PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE IT. IF A STUDENT HAS ONLY TAKEN A YEAR OR TWO OF MATH IN THE FRESHMAN OR SOPHOMORE YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL, HOW MUCH WOULD ANY OF US REMEMBER TWO YEARS AWAY FROM IT? SO A LOT OF THESE STUDENTS NEED TO COME IN AND BE RETOOLED, AND I'M JUST GLAD THEY'RE SHOWING UP AT OUR DOORS.

Henderson: DR. MAXWELL, AT DRAKE YOU HAVE AN EMPHASIS ON A FOREIGN LANGUAGE SKILL. ARE THE STUDENTS WHO ARE GRADUATING FROM IOWA HIGH SCHOOLS ADEQUATELY PREPARED TO BE CHALLENGED IN THE FOREIGN LANGUAGE AREA, OR DO IOWA HIGH SCHOOLS NEED TO DO MORE TO TEACH STUDENTS A FOREIGN LANGUAGE?

Maxwell: I THINK IT'S A NATIONAL MALAISE, AND THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT I LIVED IN THE MIDDLE OF FOR SIX YEARS IN A FORMER LIFE AS DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL FOREIGN LANGUAGE CENTER. AS A NATION, WE DO NOT DO A PARTICULARLY EFFECTIVE JOB OF CREATING FOREIGN LANGUAGE COMPETENCE IF THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE IS THE GOAL, AND IT'S A SYSTEMIC ISSUE. IT'S NOT TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF TEACHING. IT'S MORE THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS STRUCTURED AND WHAT OUR EXPECTATIONS ARE. IN THAT CONTEXT OVERALL, IOWA DOES A PRETTY GOOD JOB. WE'VE GOT A PRETTY STRONG FOREIGN LANGUAGE -- K-12 FOREIGN LANGUAGE COMMUNITY HERE. BUT THEY ARE IMPEDED BY THE SAME SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT OTHER SYSTEMS ARE NATIONALLY, AND THEY ARE IMPEDED BY A LACK OF RESOURCES, AS YOU WELL KNOW. AND WHEN SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE SHORT OF MONEY, FOREIGN LANGUAGES IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH ARTS AND MUSIC AND A FEW OTHER ESSENTIAL THINGS IN THE FUNDING.

Yepsen: GENTLEMEN, WE'VE GOT THIRTY SECONDS LEFT. A VERY QUICK QUESTION FOR EACH OF YOU. FIFTEEN SECONDS, MR. DENSON. WHAT DO YOU WANT DMACC TO LOOK LIKE IN FIVE YEARS?

Denson: I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE RESPOND TO THE NEEDS OF OUR BUSINESS INDUSTRY AND TO THE STUDENTS WHO WANT TO GO ON TO FURTHER HIGHER EDUCATION. WE KNOW HOW TO MEASURE -- THE DATA TOOLS ARE VERY STRONG RIGHT NOW. WE NEED TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE RESPONDING TO THE COMMUNITY.

Yepsen: DR. MAXWELL, HOW ABOUT DRAKE?

Maxwell: I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CONTINUE TO BE THE BEST OF BREED, IN A SENSE, AND THAT WE'RE SERVING BOTH OUR STUDENTS AND THE COMMUNITY -- THE CENTRAL IOWA COMMUNITY.

Yepsen: GREAT. THANK YOU BOTH FOR TAKING TIME TO BE WITH US TODAY. WE APPRECIATE IT.

Denson: THANK YOU.

Maxwell: GLAD TO BE HERE.

Denson: THANK YOU.