| Home |  |
| Incumbent Jim Leach and Challenger Dave Franker IOWA PRESS #3205>> Borg: BEATING THE ODDS. DEMOCRATS REGISTERED IN IOWA'S SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT OUTNUMBER REPUBLICANS, BUT REPUBLICAN JIM LEACH REPRESENTS THE EASTERN IOWA DISTRICT IN CONGRESS. DEMOCRAT DAVE FRANKER HOPES TO REPLACE HIM. WE'LL QUESTION THE CANDIDATES, INCUMBENT JIM LEACH AND CHALLENGER DAVE FRANKER, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY CAPITOL RESOURCES, INC., LOCATED IN BROOKLYN, IOWA; AND NICOLE SCHLINGER AND ERIC LANGE INDIVIDUALLY... FUND-RAISING AND COMMUNICATION SERVICES FOR MAJOR CAMPAIGNS SINCE 1996. ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, OCTOBER 1 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS. HERE IS DEAN BORG. Borg: AS IS THE CASE EVERY TWO YEARS, IOWA'S FIVE SEATS IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ARE UP FOR ELECTION NEXT MONTH. TODAY ON "IOWA PRESS," REPRESENTING OUR FOURTH CONSECUTIVE PROGRAM FOCUSING ON THE MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES IN THOSE DISTRICTS. AND TODAY IT'S IOWA'S SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN EASTERN IOWA. IT INCLUDES THE CITIES OF CEDAR RAPIDS AND IOWA CITY. THE INCUMBENT THERE IS IOWA CITY REPUBLICAN JIM LEACH. HE'S SEEKING HIS FIFTEENTH TERM AND HE'S JOINING US BY SATELLITE FROM WASHINGTON. CONGRESSMAN LEACH, WELCOME BACK TO "IOWA PRESS." Leach: WELL, IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, SIR. Borg: AND CONGRESSMAN LEACH'S MAJOR PARTY OPPONENT IS DEMOCRAT DAVE FRANKER OF NORTH LIBERTY. FRANKER SERVED ON THE IOWA CITY SCHOOL BOARD. HE'S A FORMER TEACHER. HE'S SEEKING FEDERAL OFFICE FOR THE FIRST TIME. MR. FRANKER, WELCOME TO "IOWA PRESS." Franker: THANK YOU. IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE. Borg: THANK YOU. ACROSS THE TABLE: "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND "ASSOCIATED PRESS" SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER MIKE GLOVER. Glover: MR. FRANKER, ANY TIME SOMEONE CHALLENGES AN INCUMBENT, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF HURDLES TO GET OVER. THE FIRST HURDLE TO GET OVER IS WHY SHOULD THIS INCUMBENT BE REPLACED. GIVE US YOUR SOUND BITE ON WHY JIM LEACH OUGHT TO BE REPLACED IN CONGRESS. Franker: THE SECOND DISTRICT OF IOWA IS LOOKING FOR NEW LEADERSHIP. IT'S LOOKING FOR SOME VISION FOR THE FUTURE AND THEN THE ENERGY TO IMPLEMENT THAT VISION. IT'S TIME THAT WE IN THE SECOND DISTRICT LOOK AT INVESTING IN IOWA'S FUTURE. THAT MEANS 21ST-CENTURY JOBS WITH QUALITY, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE; IT MEANS RESPECT FOR SENIORS AND VETERANS WITH DEEDS, NOT JUST WORDS; AND IT ALSO MEANS NO MORE LABELING OF IOWA'S SCHOOLS OR TEACHERS AS FAILURES. Glover: AND, CONGRESSMAN LEACH, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT ANY INCUMBENT HAS TO DO TO GET ANOTHER TERM IS CONVINCE VOTERS THEY DESERVE ANOTHER TERM. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO DESERVE TWO MORE YEARS IN OFFICE? Leach: WELL, I LEAVE THAT UP TO THE VOTERS TO CONCLUDE. ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I DO MY BEST TO REPRESENT A VIEW THAT I THINK FITS THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF IOWA, AND I TRY TO REFLECT THAT VIEW AS CAREFULLY AS I CAN. IT'S A VIEW THAT IS LARGELY ONE OF MODERATION. IT'S ONE OF TOLERANCE IN SOCIAL ISSUES. IT'S ONE OF RESTRAINT IN FISCAL POLICY. AND IT'S ONE OF PROGRESSIVITY IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS. Glover: ARE YOU -- Leach: I LEAVE IT UP FOR THE VOTERS TO JUDGE. Glover: ARE YOU OUT OF STEP WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN CONGRESS? Leach: I THINK THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THAT, DAVID. I DO NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY VIEW OF THE MAJORITY REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE CONGRESS. I DO REPRESENT, I BELIEVE, THE MAJORITY VIEW OF MANY REPUBLICANS IN THE COUNTRY. AND WE HAVE A POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT IS NOT EXACTLY IN STEP WITH THE COUNTRY AT LARGE. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN CONGRESS IS WELL TO THE LEFT OF THE AVERAGE DEMOCRAT IN THE COUNTRY. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE CONGRESS IS PROBABLY TO THE RIGHT OF THE AVERAGE REPUBLICAN IN THE COUNTRY. AND THE GREAT MIDDLE OF AMERICA IS LARGELY UNREPRESENTED IN THE CONGRESS TODAY. Glover: AND, MR. FRANKER, WHERE DO YOU FIT IN THAT WHOLE SPECTRUM OF LIBERAL CONSERVATIVES? DO YOU REPRESENT THE LIBERAL WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? THE CONSERVATIVE WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? Franker: I'M VERY INTERESTED IN ACCOMPLISHMENT. I'M VERY INTERESTED IN MOVING FORWARD WITH WHAT THE SECOND DISTRICT OF IOWA NEEDS TO DO. I WOULD RATHER TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC POLICY AND LEGISLATION RATHER THAN GENERALITIES. REPRESENTATIVE LEACH TALKS ABOUT MODERATION. IT IS A MODERATION OF RHETORIC. IN FACT, THE RECORD IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT, HIS VOTING RECORD, AND WHAT THE SECOND DISTRICT OF IOWA WOULD RATHER SEE I THINK IN THE FUTURE. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THESE CHARGES THAT MR. FRANKER HAS LEVELED HERE? Leach: WELL, THERE IS SPECIFICITY HERE. THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF VOTE GRADING RECORDS IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS. ON EVERY SCALE I'VE EVER SEEN, I'M ONE OF THE HALF DOZEN MOST MODERATE REPUBLICANS, AND THAT HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY THE CASE IN MY ENTIRE ERA OF REPRESENTATION OF THE FIRST AND SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS OF IOWA. AND SO I STAND ON MY RECORD. I ALSO STAND ON A RECORD OF INDEPENDENCE, INDEPENDENCE ON INDEBTEDNESSES, NOT ACCEPTING POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE FUNDS, AND INDEPENDENCE IN TERMS OF MY POLITICAL PARTY. I'M, AFTER ALL, ONE OF ONLY A HANDFUL OF REPUBLICANS TO HAVE VOTED AGAINST THIS WAR. MY RECORD IS STRAIGHTFORWARD. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT WAR. YOU DID VOTE AGAINST IT, BUT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT WAS RIGHT OR NOT TO GET INVOLVED IN IRAQ, WE ARE THERE NOW. THE UNITED STATES IS THERE NOW. WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NOW? Leach: WELL, YOU RAISED A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHETHER WE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IN, WE DO HAVE TO LEAVE IRAQ IN A WAY THAT IRAQ IS A BETTER, MORE STABLE SOCIETY AND A MORE DEMOCRATIC ONE. AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE DISCIPLINE. I HAPPEN TO FAULT OUR POST-WAR PLANNING AS WELL AS OUR DECISION TO GO IN. I THINK WE'RE A YEAR BEHIND. I WOULD HAVE HOPED WE'D BE IN A POSITION TO GET OUT OF IRAQ BY THIS CHRISTMAS. NOW IT IS SELF-EVIDENT THAT THE ELECTIONS THAT ARE FINALLY GOING TO TAKE PLACE IN JANUARY ARE ONLY PRELIMINARY ELECTIONS. NOW, THEY LEAD TO THE CREATION OF HOPEFULLY A CONSTITUTION, SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE A YEAR AGO. BUT IT LOOKS TO ME AS IF WE OUGHT TO HANG OUR HAT ON THE PRINCIPLE OF ESTABLISHING DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES, HAVING AN ARMY THAT'S IN PLACE, A POLICE FORCE THAT'S IN PLACE, AND TURNING THE REINS OF AUTHORITY FIRST INCREASINGLY OVER TO AN INTERNATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCE AND THEN TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE THEMSELVES. I WOULD HOPE THAT COULD BE I'D HOPE THIS CHRISTMAS. I HOPE NOW AT LEAST BY NEXT CHRISTMAS, BUT THESE ARE HARD THINGS TO PREDICT. Yepsen: MR. FRANKER, SAME QUESTION TO YOU. WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE IN IRAQ? Franker: AS THE VOTERS DECIDE FOR WHOM TO VOTE IN THIS ELECTION IN THE SECOND DISTRICT OF CONGRESS, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY KNOW THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MR. LEACH AND ME ON THE MATTER OF IRAQ. THERE ARE SEVERAL. FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE CALLED FOR DONALD RUMSFELD -- SECRETARY OF DEFENSE DONALD RUMSFELD'S RESIGNATION. I DID SO ON MAY 6 WHEN THE ABU GHRAIB PRISON SCANDAL BROKE IN THE MAINSTREAM PRESS. ON MAY 8 MR. LEACH SAID THAT CALLS FOR RUMSFELD'S RESIGNATION WOULD BE POLITICAL PILING ON. WHEN THE SCHLESSINGER REPORT CAME OUT, I BELIEVE IT WAS AUGUST 25, I RENEWED MY CALL FOR MR. RUMSFELD TO STEP ASIDE AND RESIGN. AGAIN MR. LEACH SAID THAT THAT WAS NOT THE RIGHT APPROACH, SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE A -- Yepsen: PARDON ME FOR INTERRUPTING -- Franker: SURE. Yepsen: -- BUT MY QUESTION IS WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE. I'M MORE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE PROSPECTIVELY. Franker: RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS RESTORE AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AROUND THE WORLD ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE. Yepsen: WELL, HOW DO WE DO THAT? Franker: BY TAKING SOME ACCOUNTABILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS THERE. AND THE FIRST STEP FOR THAT IS TO SAY WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE WITH INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS, WITH THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. AND TO BEGIN TO REBUILD THAT TRUST AND THAT POTENTIAL FOR LEADERSHIP, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY. A FIRST STEP WOULD BE FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE DONALD RUMSFELD TO RESIGN. I AM IN FAVOR OF THAT. MR. LEACH, WHO WAS FIRST HIRED BY DONALD RUMSFELD THIRTY SOME YEARS AGO, OPPOSES THAT. Glover: ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS IN IRAQ IS SHOULD WE SET A DEADLINE FOR PULLING OUR TROOPS OUT? DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO BE OUT OF IRAQ BY A TIME CERTAIN? Franker: I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO FOLLOW WHAT OUR COMMANDERS IN THE FIELD SAY, AND THE POLICY IS SET BY THE PRESIDENT. BUT ALONGSIDE OF THAT, WE NEED TO RESTORE OTHER MEASURES TO REBUILD CONFIDENCE ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE IN OUR LEADERSHIP SO THAT -- Glover: AND A DEADLINE? Franker: I'M SORRY? Glover: A DEADLINE? Franker: AT THIS TIME I DON'T THINK A HARD AND FAST DEADLINE IS THE RIGHT ANSWER. I'VE CALLED -- SEVERAL MONTHS AGO I CALLED FOR THE BEGINNING OF WITHDRAWAL OF AMERICAN TROOPS FROM IRAQ FAR SOONER THAN MR. LEACH DID. Glover: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, YOU HAVE SAID INITIALLY THAT YOU THOUGHT THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE OUR TROOPS OUT BY THIS CHRISTMAS. NOW YOU'RE SAYING NEXT CHRISTMAS. WOULD YOU SET A DEADLINE OF HAVING AMERICAN TROOPS OUT OF IRAQ BY NEXT CHRISTMAS? Leach: I SAY THAT IN TERMS OF ASPIRATIONS. BASICALLY I FAVOR WHAT MIGHT BE DESCRIBED AS AN EVENT TIMETABLE RATHER THAN A TIME TIMETABLE. AND BY EVENT TIMETABLE, THE HOLDING OF ELECTIONS, THE ELECTION OF AN IRAQI PRESIDENT OR PRIME MINISTER, AND THEN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ARMY THAT LOOKS CAPABLE OF TAKING CARE OF THE COUNTRY ITSELF. CLEARLY -- AND I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE RUMSFELD ISSUE. DAVID, I WORKED FOR DONALD RUMSFELD AS A YOUNG MAN. IF YOU THINK IT WAS HARD TO DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE THAT I AM VERY CLOSE TO, YOU'RE WRONG. THERE IS NOTHING MORE DIFFICULT FOR ME THAN TO DIFFER WITH PEOPLE THAT I KNOW EXTRAORDINARILY WELL. NOW, YOU MAY SAY THROW HIM OUT. I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE'S A DECENT CHANCE DON RUMSFELD IS NOT GOING TO HAVE A SECOND TERM, HE MAY NOT WANT IT, AND THAT MR. KERRY MAY BE ELECTED PRESIDENT. BUT HE'S A MAN WHO HAS GIVEN A GREAT DEAL TO HIS COUNTRY. I DIFFER WITH HIS JUDGMENT. I DIFFER WITH THE WAR. I DIFFER WITH THE POST-WAR PLANNING. BUT I'M NOT A HEADHUNTER. Franker: IT'S -- Borg: GO AHEAD, MR. FRANKER. Franker: MAY I RESPOND TO THAT PLEASE? Borg: YES. Franker: THANK YOU. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF WHO IS A PERSONAL FRIEND OF SOMEONE ELSE OR WHO HAS WORKED WITH SOMEONE ELSE. IT'S AN ISSUE OF WHAT WOULD BE A POSITIVE STEP TO RESTORE AMERICAN LEADERSHIP ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE. AND ACCEPTING SOME ACCOUNTABILITY, THIS COULD BE A GOOD FIRST STEP. Borg: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, I'M INTERESTED NOW IN PROJECTING INTO THE FUTURE IN SIMILAR SITUATIONS. THE RATIONALE FOR INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ WAS PREVENTIVE, THAT IS TO PREVENT SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS FROM HAPPENING, SO WE WENT IN. IN A SIMILAR SITUATION IN THE FUTURE, DO YOU SUBSCRIBE AT ALL TO THE THEORY OF PREVENTIVE, PREEMPTIVE STRIKES? Leach: WELL, IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE AS A LAST OPTION. IN INTERNATIONAL POLITICS AND INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT'S SOMETHING ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL OF. ALTHOUGH IN INTERNATIONAL LAW, THERE IS A RECOGNITION OF A RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE. I WOULD SIMPLY STRESS THAT IT'S A LITTLE DANGEROUS WHEN ONE RAISES IT TO THE LEVEL OF A "DOCTRINE," BECAUSE ONCE YOU MAKE IT A DOCTRINE, ESPECIALLY IF IT BEARS THE NAME OF THE PERSON THAT MAKES THE DECISION, THERE'S A TENDENCY ALWAYS TO FOLLOW "DOCTRINE" INSTEAD OF USING INDIVIDUAL DISCRETION AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME. Borg: DO YOU THINK WE'RE AT THAT POINT, CONGRESSMAN LEACH, WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION NOW? Leach: I FELT VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE DOCTRINAIRE APPROACH, BUT I THINK ANY AMERICAN PRESIDENT ALWAYS HAS TO RESERVE CERTAIN OPTIONS. AND LET ME GIVE AN EXAMPLE. IF SOMEONE WERE TO SUGGEST THAT AT SOME ISLAND IN THE PACIFIC SOMEWHERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE HAD PUT TOGETHER A NUCLEAR DEVICE AND WAS GOING TO AIM IT AT LOS ANGELES, IT WOULD TAKE ANY AMERICAN PRESIDENT A MILLISECOND NOT TO ORGANIZE EVERY SINGLE CAPACITY OF THE UNITED STATES ARMED SERVICES -- Borg: YOU DIDN'T MENTION NORTH KOREA IN THAT BUT -- Leach: NO, I SURELY DIDN'T. AND LET ME SAY, NORTH KOREA IS A VERY DANGEROUS PLACE AND IT IS A PLACE FOR NONMACHO RHETORIC. YOU HAVE A COUNTRY THAT HAS THE CAPACITY TO LAUNCH NUCLEAR MATERIAL AT THE UNITED STATES WITH THE ABILITY TO REACH US. YOU HAVE A COUNTRY WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF UNDERGROUND TUNNELS, WITH AN ARMY OF 1.3 MILLION MEN. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT ONE SHOULD SEEK CONFRONTATION IF CONFRONTATION CAN BE AVOIDED. Borg: I WANT TO GET A COMMENT FROM -- Leach: THIS IS A TIME FOR MULTILATERAL DIPLOMACY. Borg: I WANT TO GET A COMMENT NOW FROM DAVE FRANKER ON PREEMPTIVE STRIKES. YOU HEARD THE QUESTION. Franker: RIGHT, YES. A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE IS NOT THE DOCTRINE THAT WE SHOULD PURSUE. LET ME JUST SAY THAT THE FOREIGN POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES IS SET BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, NOT BY ONE INDIVIDUAL MEMBER OF CONGRESS OF WHICH THERE ARE 535. A VERY MAJOR, IMPORTANT ROLE AS A CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE IS THE POWER OF THE PURSE STRING. WITH RESPECT TO THE WAR IN IRAQ, LAST OCTOBER THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON THE $87-BILLION APPROPRIATION. MR. LEACH VOTED YES ON THE HOUSE VERSION ON OCTOBER 20 -- ON OCTOBER 17. AND THEN THREE DAYS LATER VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY WAS IN CEDAR RAPIDS RAISING $35,000 FOR MR. LEACH'S CAMPAIGN REELECTION FUND. A FEW DAYS LATER, THEN THE FINAL VERSION WAS PASSED OF $87 BILLION. I SAID THEN AT THE TIME THAT THAT WAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY GIVE US AN ARTICULATED EXIT PLAN, A STRATEGY, AN EVENT TIMETABLE OR SOME KIND OF A TIMETABLE AS TO WHAT OUR GOALS WERE AND HOW WE WERE GOING TO DISENGAGE. THAT WAS THE OPPORTUNITY. Borg: I WANT TO BE PRECISE. YOU WEREN'T ANSWERING THE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE QUESTION, AND THAT IS WOULD YOU EVER JUSTIFY PREEMPTIVE STRIKE. Franker: I DON'T THINK THE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE IS THE KIND OF -- IS THE KIND OF DOCTRINE THAT WE WANT TO HAVE AS A RULE. NOW, EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE SHOULD BE JUDGED ON ITS OWN MERITS, SO I DON'T THINK YOU CAN FIT EVERY SINGLE POTENTIALITY INTO A FRAMEWORK CALLED PREVENTIVE STRIKE. Glover: MR. FRANKER, ONE OUTCOME OF THIS WAR ON TERRORISM, TO THE 9/11 STRIKES, WAS THE PATRIOT ACT. A COUPLE OF ASPECTS IN THE PATRIOT ACT HAVE BEEN STRICKEN DOWN BY THE FEDERAL COURTS. IT'S UP FOR RENEWAL. WOULD YOU SUPPORT RENEWAL OF THE PATRIOT ACT, OR WHAT PORTIONS OF IT WILL YOU SUPPORT NOT RENEWING? WHAT PORTIONS WOULD YOU SUPPORT RENEWING? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PATRIOT ACT? Franker: THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. HERE I THINK I CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT MR. LEACH SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER, AND THAT IS HOW IT IS WE CAN BE EFFECTIVE AS LEGISLATORS FOR THE SECOND DISTRICT OF IOWA. LEGISLATORS ARE NOT LONE RANGERS. WE WORK ON A TEAM. WE'RE PART OF A TEAM. THIS PAST SUMMER THERE WAS A VOTE IN THE CONGRESS DURING, I BELIEVE IT WAS, A JUDICIAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION APPROPRIATION WHERE THERE WAS AN AMENDMENT ATTACHED TO IT THAT WOULD HAVE STRICKEN THAT PORTION OF THE PATRIOT ACT THAT ALLOWS THE GOVERNMENT TO GO IN AND LOOK INTO THE RECORDS OF BOOKSTORES AND LIBRARIES. MR. LEACH IN FACT VOTED THE WAY THAT -- HE VOTED THE SAME WAY I WAS PREPARED TO VOTE, TO STRIKE THAT PORTION OF THE PATRIOT ACT. IN FACT, IT WAS ABOUT TO PASS 219 TO 206 WHEN THE LEADERSHIP THAT MR. LEACH PUT IN CHARGE STOPPED THE CLOCK, SUSPENDED THE RULES, STARTED TO TWIST THE ARMS UNTIL IT BECAME A 210 TO 210 VOTE, AND THEN THAT PORTION OF THE PATRIOT ACT WAS NOT STRICKEN. SO THE LEADERSHIP THAT MR. LEACH PUTS IN CHARGE IS NOT PREPARED, APPARENTLY, TO CHANGE THE PATRIOT ACT. UNLESS AND UNTIL WE CAN BEGIN TO MOVE TOWARDS NEW LEADERSHIP IN CONGRESS, I DON'T SEE MUCH HOPE FOR THE PATRIOT ACT TO BE AMENDED IN A SUBSTANTIAL WAY, THE WAY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, INCLUDING THE MEASURES ABOUT SNEAK AND PEAK THAT CAME OUT IN THE JUDICIAL DECISION THIS WEEK THAT I'M SURE WILL BE APPEALED. Glover: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU. A COUPLE OF PORTIONS OF THE PATRIOT ACT HAVE BEEN STRICKEN DOWN BY FEDERAL COURTS, AND IT'S UP FOR RENEWAL. WHERE DO YOU STAND ON WHICH PORTIONS OF IT SHOULD BE RENEWED, WHICH PORTIONS OF IT SHOULD BE MODIFIED, OR SHOULD JUST THE WHOLE THING BE REJECTED? Leach: WELL, THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THE PATRIOT ACT THAT WERE COMMON SENSE, THAT DID NOT SEEM TO BE GLARING BEFORE 9/11, AFTER 9/11 DID. FOR EXAMPLE, THE PATRIOT ACT WAS ALL DESIGNED TO MAKE IT EASIER TO COMMUNICATE BETWEEN THE FBI AND THE CIA, TWO INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAD HITHERTO KEPT VERY SEPARATE. THAT MAKES COMMON SENSE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. I THINK THE PATRIOT ACT WENT A BIT TOO FAR. AND FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE LIBRARY ISSUE, AS DAVID NOTED, I VOTED TO CHANGE THAT TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY OF PEOPLE WHO CHECK OUT THINGS FROM PUBLIC LIBRARIES. WHEN THE SO-CALLED ARM TWISTING OCCURRED -- AND IT WAS VERY STIFF -- MY ARM WAS TWISTED BUT I DIDN'T BEND. Glover: WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- Leach: I AM AN INDEPENDENT MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS. I WILL DEFEND MY RECORD. AND IT IS VERY EASY TO GLOSS OVER. AND, DAVID, DICK CHENEY IS A FRIEND OF MINE. THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IS A FRIEND OF MINE. BUT I EXERCISE INDEPENDENT JUDGMENT. AND YOU MIGHT WANT TO MORPH ME INTO SOMEONE THAT I AM NOT, BUT I DON'T ACCEPT IT. Glover: WELL, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO -- WHAT DO YOU SAY TO HIS BASIC CHARGE, CONGRESSMAN, THAT YOU MAY BE A MODERATE, YOUR VIEWS MAY BE IN LINE WITH PEOPLE IN YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT BUT, IN FACT, YOU VOTE TO PUT IN PLACE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS WHO ARE FAR TO THE RIGHT OF YOUR DISTRICT IN IOWA? Leach: WELL, THAT IS PARTLY THE CASE, ALTHOUGH LET ME ALSO STRESS THAT IN THE 20TH CENTURY THERE WERE ABOUT A DOZEN INSTANCES WHERE A MEMBER OF CONGRESS DID NOT VOTE FOR THE NOMINEE OF THEIR PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR SPEAKER. I AM ONE. I DID NOT VOTE FOR NEWT GINGRICH FOR SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN ME BUT BECAUSE A MONTH BEFORE THAT VOTE, IT WAS REVEALED THAT HE HAD LIED BEFORE A COMMITTEE OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS. THAT I FOUND UNACCEPTABLE. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN -- Leach: I WILL VOTE AN INDEPENDENT PERSPECTIVE. Yepsen: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, I WANT TO MOVE ON HERE TO ANOTHER QUESTION. THE ISSUE IS TERRORISM. PROSPECTIVELY, LOOKING AHEAD IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS OF A TERM, IF YOU GET REELECTED, WHAT SHOULD THE COUNTRY BE DOING TO FIGHT A BETTER WAR ON TERRORISM? Leach: WELL, THERE ARE MANY, MANY ELEMENTS OF THE WAR ON TERRORISM. SOME IS PREPARATION. AND FRANKLY, IN A FREE SOCIETY, YOU CANNOT BE PERFECTLY PROTECTED IN A PREPARATION SENSE. ANOTHER IS POLICY. THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THE FOREIGN POLICY IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE FIRMNESS IS IN ORDER. THERE ARE ALSO ELEMENTS WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE GREATER UNDERSTANDING. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WORLD AS OTHERS SEE IT TO THE DEGREE THAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THEIR MOTIVES AND THEIR REASONS FOR DOING THINGS. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY, VERY CAREFUL IN RHETORIC ABOUT IRAN, VERY CAREFUL IN THE FAR EAST ABOUT RHETORIC ON TAIWAN, RHETORIC ON NORTH KOREA. I ALSO THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE HIGHEST FOREIGN POLICY OBJECTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES HAS GOT TO BE TO HELP RESOLVE THE ISRAELI/PALESTINIAN DILEMMA. THE LONGER IT FESTERS, THE GREATER THE JEOPARDY OF ALL PARTIES IN THE REGION AND THE GREATER THE JEOPARDY FOR THE UNITED STATES NATIONAL SECURITY. WE CANNOT IGNORE THAT ISSUE. Yepsen: MR. FRANKER, SAME QUESTION. WHAT DO WE DO TO FIGHT A BETTER WAR ON TERRORISM? Franker: THE FIRST THING WE DO IS ELECT A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHO CAN COMMAND THE RESPECT OF THE ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. GEORGE BUSH HAS FAILED ON THAT. I SUPPORT SENATOR KERRY. REPRESENTATIVE LEACH SUPPORTS GEORGE BUSH. THAT'S THE VERY FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT STEP. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE WERE TO END IN A TIE, THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WOULD MAKE THE CHOICE FOR THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENCY, AND I WOULD VOTE FOR MR. KERRY. THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP AT THIS PARTICULAR STAGE FOR THE UNITED STATES. WITH RESPECT TO SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT, IN THE MORE LONG TERM, ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF THE WAHAB ASPECT OF ISLAM IN SAUDI ARABIA AND THE ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY AND THE WAHAB ASPECT OF THAT RELIGION, THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IN THE LONG TERM, WORKING TOGETHER WITH THOSE PEOPLE WITH WHOM WE HAVE BEEN CLOSELY ASSOCIATED. I TEACH WORLD RELIGIONS AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL, AND EDUCATION IS THE LONG-TERM APPROACH, INCLUDING THINGS LIKE ESTABLISHED MORE CHAIRS FOR THE STUDY OF ARABIC IN THE UNITED STATES. OBVIOUSLY THE SHORT TERM IS A UNITED STATES PRESIDENT WHO COULD COMMAND THE RESPECT OF THE WORLD, THE COOPERATION OF THE WORLD, TO ROOT OUT TERRORISM WHERE IT IS AND DESTROY IT. Glover: LET'S TALK ABOUT ANOTHER ISSUE YOU RAISED OBLIQUELY WHEN YOU ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Franker: PLEASE. Glover: WE HAVE A PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW WHO LOST THE POPULAR VOTE AND WON THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE. SHOULD THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE BE ELIMINATED? Franker: I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE ELIMINATED AT THIS POINT. IT'S A SERIOUS DISCUSSION WORTH HAVING. ONE THING THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT IS PROPORTIONAL VOTING IN EACH STATE. ANOTHER IS TO REMOVE THE TWO VOTES PER STATE THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SENATE SEATS. THAT WOULD MAKE IT THEN MORE PROPORTIONAL STATE BY STATE. IT'S A GOOD DISCUSSION THAT WE SHOULD HAVE. Glover: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU. WE HAVE A PRESIDENT IN OFFICE RIGHT NOW WHO LOST THE POPULAR VOTE AND NARROWLY WON THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE. SHOULD THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE BE ELIMINATED? Leach: WELL, I'M INCLINED TOWARDS A COMPROMISE APPROACH THAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED, I BELIEVE BY AN AMERICAN HISTORIAN, ARTHUR SCHLESSINGER, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT CONFIDENT OF ITS SOURCE, WHICH IS TO KEEP THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE BUT PERHAPS ADD A 100-SEAT OR 100-VOTE BENEFIT TO WHOEVER WINS THE TOTAL POPULAR VOTE. AND THAT WOULD KEEP SOME SEMBLANCE OF CONCERN FOR THE STATES, AT THE SAME TIME RECOGNIZE TO A GREATER EXTENT THE POPULAR VOTE TOTAL. Yepsen: MR. FRANKER, I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS HERE AND GO TO THE DOMESTIC ECONOMY. Franker: WONDERFUL. Yepsen: WHAT'S THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WANT TO SEE DONE BY THE NEXT CONGRESS TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMY? Franker: THE FIRST STEP WHERE THE BENEFIT OF SECOND DISTRICT IOWANS WOULD BE IS SOMETHING THAT THE CONGRESS COULD DO. THE CONGRESS DOES NOT IMPROVE THE ECONOMY ON ITS OWN. THAT'S THE PRIVATE SECTOR, BUT WE NEED TO SET THE STAGE WITH OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, INCLUDING THE TAX POLICY. THE BIGGEST PIECE THAT I SEE WOULD BE THIS, MR. YEPSEN. WHEN WE HAD FUNDS THREE YEARS AGO AND A SURPLUS FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THERE WERE PRIORITIES THAT COULD BE CHOSEN THEN. THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTED ITSELF TO FULLY FUND SPECIAL EDUCATION. A MODERATE REPUBLICAN WHO WAS A VOICE FOR PRINCIPLED INDEPENDENCE, SENATOR JEFFORDS OF VERMONT, DID IN FACT, WHEN PRESIDENT BUSH SUGGESTED $1.4 TRILLION IN TAX CUTS OVER TEN YEARS THAT WERE TILTED PRIMARILY TO THE WEALTHY, SENATOR JEFFORDS SAID LET'S JUST TAKE $1.2 MILLION IN TAX CUTS AND LET'S FUND, FOR THE FIRST TIME NOW IN TWENTY-NINE YEARS SINCE WE'VE HAD SPECIAL EDUCATION, TO REDUCE THE BURDEN ON IOWA PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, TO REDUCE THE BURDEN ON IOWA FARMERS IN THEIR PROPERTY TAXES BY FULLY FUNDING SPECIAL EDUCATION WITH THAT OTHER $200 BILLION OVER TEN YEARS. SENATOR JEFFORDS VOTED FOR THAT AND ACTUALLY LEFT HIS PARTY. Yepsen: THAT'S SO MUCH HISTORY, MR. FRANKER. I'M INTERESTED PROSPECTIVELY. THE COUNTRY IS BROKE NOW. Franker: RIGHT. I AM TOO. I AM TOO. AND THAT WOULD BE FOUR TIMES -- FOUR TIMES THIS YEAR, THERE HAS BEEN A VOTE IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS WHEREBY THE ISSUE WAS TO EXTEND THE TAX CUTS TO THE WEALTHIEST 2 PERCENT. ON ALL FOUR OCCASIONS, MR. LEACH HAS VOTED TO KEEP THAT EXTENSION IN PLACE. I WOULD RATHER SEE THAT EXTENSION COME TO A CONCLUSION AND THEN USE SOME OF THOSE MONEYS, A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THOSE MONEYS TO REVISIT THE MEDICARE MODERNIZATION ACT BECAUSE THE MEDICARE MODERNIZATION ACT, AS CONFUSING TO OUR SENIORS AND COMPARED TO THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY, FOR WHICH MR. LEACH VOTED IN '01 AND HE VOTED FOR FIVE OF THE SIX STEPS IN '02 -- IN '03. INSTEAD MAKE IT LESS OF CRUMBS FOR OUR SENIORS. Yepsen: MR. LEACH, SAME QUESTION TO YOU. WHAT DO WE DO TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMY? Leach: WELL, THE ECONOMY IS GENERATED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. WE'VE GOT TO BE VERY CONCERNED TO GET THE PRIVATE SECTOR MOVING AND GET THIS ECONOMY STRONGER. IT'S TRUE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ERRS A BIT ON THE SIZE OF TAX CUTS. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ERRS MORE THAN A BIT ON THE SIDE OF SPENDING INCREASES. AND SOMEHOW WE'VE GOT TO HAVE GREATER BALANCE. Glover: CONGRESSMAN LEACH -- Leach: IN TERMS OF THE MAJOR TAX CUTS, I VOTED FOR THE FIRST MAJOR TAX CUT. I VOTED AGAINST THE SECOND BECAUSE I THOUGHT WAS TOO LARGE. IN TERMS OF THE VERY SPECIFIC THINGS REFERENCED BY MY OPPONENT, THE MAJOR VOTES THIS LAST YEAR ON PARTS OF MAKING THE TAX -- SOME ASPECTS OF THE TAX CUT PERMANENT HAVE BEEN AIMED AT THE MIDDLE CLASS. THE CHILD TAX CREDIT, FOR EXAMPLE. Glover: CONGRESSMAN LEACH, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF -- Leach: AND IF MY OPPONENT WANTS TO OPPOSE THEM, THAT'S UP TO HIM. Glover: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE, AND YOUR OPPONENT WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO THAT. Franker: I DON'T OPPOSE THOSE. MR. LEACH I THINK KNOWS THAT I'VE ARTICULATED THAT ON MANY OCCASIONS. THE '03 TAX CUTS UP AGAINST WHICH MR. LEACH VOTED, THERE WERE IN FACT SIX STEPS ALONG THE WAY. HE VOTED FOR THEM EVERY STEP OF THE WAY UNTIL THE FINAL DAY OF THE VOTE WHEN IT WAS ALREADY CONCLUDED. THE OUTCOME WAS NO LONGER IN DOUBT. THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC FOLKS IN CONGRESS PUT FORWARD TO MAKE IT LESS REGRESSIVE AND MORE PROGRESSIVE. HE VOTED NO AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY -- Yepsen: MR. FRANKER, WE'VE ONLY GOT A MINUTE LEFT. Borg: LET'S GO THROUGH SOME CLOSING STATEMENTS HERE. THIRTY SECONDS, MR. LEACH, ON WHAT YOU WANT VOTERS TO REMEMBER AS THEY ENTER THE VOTING BOOTH. Leach: I NEVER ASK ANYONE TO VOTE FOR ME. ALL I ASK IS THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT MY RECORD AND CONSIDER MY VIEWS. MY VIEWS ARE THOSE OF MODERATION, RESTRAINT IN FISCAL POLICY, PROGRESSIVITY IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS. I ASK FOR CONSIDERATION. Borg: MR. FRANKER? Franker: THANK YOU. THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE. I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. THE PEOPLE OF THE SECOND DISTRICT OF IOWA ARE READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A NEW VISION AND SOMEONE WITH THE ENERGY TO HELP IMPLEMENT THAT. I HAVE A RECORD -- ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, I HAVE A RECORD OF A QUARTER CENTURY OF TEACHING CHILDREN, COUNSELING VETERANS, LISTENING AND VISITING THE SICK AND THE ELDERLY; WITH SOME IDEAS ON HOW TO MOVE FORWARD ON THE ECONOMY, IN EASTERN IOWA, LIGHT RAIL, MEDICAL RESEARCH, RENEWABLE ENERGY. AND IT'S TIME TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME NEW EMPHASES IN THESE AREAS. Borg: THANK YOU, MR. FRANKER. THANK YOU, CONGRESSMAN LEACH. Leach: THANK YOU. Borg: NEXT WEEK WE CONCLUDE OUR SERIES ON MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES FOR ELECTION TO THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND WITH THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT NEXT WEEK, AN AREA GENERALLY BORDERING THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, INCLUDING THE CITIES OF DAVENPORT, DUBUQUE, AND WATERLOO. THE INCUMBENT IS REPUBLICAN JIM NUSSLE OF MANCHESTER. AND HE'S MATCHED AGAINST DEMOCRAT CHALLENGER BILL GLUBA OF DAVENPORT. NUSSLE AND GLUBA: NEXT FRIDAY AT 7:30, SUNDAY AT NOON. I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH. I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. CAPTIONS BY: MIDWEST CAPTIONING DES MOINES, IOWA FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION; BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY CAPITOL RESOURCES, INC., LOCATED IN BROOKLYN, IOWA; AND NICOLE SCHLINGER AND ERIC LANGE INDIVIDUALLY... FUND-RAISING AND COMMUNICATION SERVICES FOR MAJOR CAMPAIGNS SINCE 1996. |
|
